We'd like a living wage with that order [[McDonald's on Gratiot Picketed)

[xrockerboy]

http://socialistworker.org/2013/05/2...-a-living-wage

[Vic01]

this is old "news"... from article on May 20, 2013

MANAGERS OF the Detroit McDonald's on Gratiot Avenue, northeast of the city center, discovered at 6 a.m. on May 10 that the restaurant was being picketed by about 20 striking employees. When they called other employees to come to work for a replacement shift, the other workers started arriving...and joined the picket line. The Gratiot Avenue McDonald's stayed closed.

That was just one of the stories from Detroit as more than 400 employees at fast-food restaurants across the city went on strike and took to the streets on May 10. Nationwide, this was the fourth such strike in the past several months--previous walkouts have taken place in New York City, Chicago and St. Louis. Since the Detroit action, workers in Milwaukee have also gone on strike.
Throughout the day, workers and their supporters rallied outside chain restaurants like McDonald's, Popeyes, Taco Bell and Burger King, gathering at the end of the day for a climactic march in the city's New Center area. Like similar walkouts in other cities, the main demands of the coalition, calling itself D15, were for a raise in the minimum wage to a living wage of $15 an hour and the right to form a union.

[Wesley Mouch]

..., the main demands of the coalition, calling itself D15, were for a raise in the minimum wage to a living wage of $15 an hour and the right to form a union.

Ummm, they already have the right to form a union and then negotiate their wages to whatever amount they can negotiate. Now that we have freedom of [[dis)association in our workplaces in Michigan, I'm all in favor of their rights to organize.

[bailey]

Ummm, they already have the right to form a union and then negotiate their wages to whatever amount they can negotiate. Now that we have freedom of [[dis)association in our workplaces in Michigan, I'm all in favor of their rights to organize.

Not only that.. the walkout itself was backed by the Service Employees International Union and other labor organizations... someone explain to me why SEIU or whomever isn't just organizing them?

Just for some perspective: The median household income in the US in 2011 was $50,502. A married household with 2 full time fast food workers at $15/hr would make [[assuming a 2000 hour work year) $60,000.

Makes sense to me

More of a philosophical question really, but should "minimum" wage jobs pay well enough to exceed the median?

[jt1]

More of a philosophical question really, but should "minimum" wage jobs pay well enough to exceed the median?

I certainly hope my sarcasm was clear, but to answer your question, no. Now, skilled jobs should pay more than minimum wage but fast food certainly should not pay on par with a first year teacher, first year DPD officer, etc, etc

[bailey]

I certainly hope my sarcasm was clear, but to answer your question, no. Now, skilled jobs should pay more than minimum wage but fast food certainly should not pay on par with a first year teacher, first year DPD officer, etc, etc

I missed the sarcasm... sorry, i read the whole dailyworker article and it threw off my calibration .

[antongast]

More of a philosophical question really, but should "minimum" wage jobs pay well enough to exceed the median?

Well, first off, you notice jt1 is talking about the income from two $15/hr jobs, not one. Clever sleight of hand he did there. One person working full time for $15/hr isn't making anywhere near 50 grand, and lots of people don't live in two-income households. Second, if you raise a bunch of people's incomes above the median, that shifts the median. My philosophical question here is why the fuck is the median so low to start with? In the land of Donald Trump and Matty Moroun and Dick DeVos, how is it that fully half of households in this country make less than $50,000 a year and we haven't had a full-on revolution?

[bailey]

Well, first off, you notice jt1 is talking about the income from two $15/hr jobs, not one. Clever sleight of hand he did there.

No it's not. The Median HOUSEHOLD income is based on all the earners in the 'household' over the age of 15... not by individual worker. So yes, two people in a household earing 15/hr for 2000 hours [[40 hour work week-50 weeks a year- 2 week non paid time off) adds up to 60 k.

Second, if you raise a bunch of people's incomes above the median, that shifts the median.

... and causes inflation...and will result in fewer people being hired to flip burgers at 15 bucks an hour...etc.

My philosophical question here is why the fuck is the median so low to start with? In the land of Donald Trump and Matty Moroun and Dick DeVos, how is it that fully half of households in this country make less than $50,000 a year and we haven't had a full-on revolution?

Because who gets to decide what is "enough" to be "just" for those households? is three cars and one up north cottage ok for the "median" or should the median be entitled to private jets and vacation homes on Jupiter Island?

You can't point to stupendously wealthy outliers and demand "me too"! I mean, how much of Bill Gates', Warren buffet or... i don't know George Clooney's money are we entitled to?

Why should an illness cause a family to go bankrupt? ok yes, that is a problem. Why isn't there mandatory paid time off like in every other industrialized country? yes, that is an issue.

But demanding that on day one of burger flipping you should be paid more than a first year teacher is just insane.

[313WX]

I'm just curious, was this the McDonalds on 7 Mile and Gratiot or French Road and Gratiot?

[trotwood]

I'm just curious, was this the McDonalds on 7 Mile and Gratiot or French Road and Gratiot?

From the photo from the article it looks like this is the McDonald's at 7&Gratiot.

[jt1]

Just for some perspective: The median household income in the US in 2011 was $50,502. A married household with 2 full time fast food workers at $15/hr would make [[assuming a 2000 hour work year) $60,000.

Makes sense to me.

[TKshreve]

People wouldn't need to rely on a suppressed service sector for career choices if we didn't export all the jobs that once made us a functional society. Export jobs --> import poverty.

Meanwhile the fat cats will never, ever relent on raising the minimum wage. They'll spend more money combating the idea then it would cost to suck it up and provide a sustainable wage. If MW does go up, fully expect them to find another place to recoup those added expenses. The idea that executive pay would absorb higher operating costs is NOT and option. That street only goes one way.

[canuck]

What do they serve in MCDonald's anyways? Irish stew? Are those the places with a big Orange or Pink double arch?

[poobert]

While they have a point - seriously, what in God's name can anyone do with $7.40 an hour - demanding $15 per hour isn't going to win them any friends. I'd say $12 is more reasonable but I'm generally pretty sympathetic to the little guy. $10 might actually be realistic.

[Danny]

YAY! Solidarity forever! Living wage for all. The Socialist Leninst-like uprising in fast food restuarants. Unionize all fast food employess now! 15 dollar a hour wage now! No more working for slave wages.

[TKshreve]

how is it that fully half of households in this country make less than $50,000 a year and we haven't had a full-on revolution?

Sometimes I wonder the same thing. A few random thoughts:

1> While incomes have remained stagnant over the last twenty years, costs have slowly trickled up. Consider the frog in a kettle of water; slowly turn the heat up and he will unknowingly let himself cook to death without knowing any better.

2> The poorest in this country have been under attack from various groups as the people to blame for poverty. Pretty hard to organize when your constantly defending. It's even harder to organize when you do not have 21st century technology to connect these people.

3> I would say OWS was the closest we've seen to such a revolution. It was peaceful [[outside of a few unlucky pepper-spray recipients) and fronted by tatooed, squirrely haired millennials. Needless to say, not a lot of people took them seriously, nor did they formulate a straightforward message.

4> A lot of people have no clue that the job market used to have real, viable wages available. Insert women in the workforce, technology-driven displacement and the floodgates of off-shoring [[WTO) and you have an employer's market when it comes to finding careers. Not to mention our service sector now fills some of that gap....... but in reality it's more like welfare where people are sucked in and never leave the industry to better themselves.

[TKshreve]

Minimum wage jobs are not designed to support a family. They are available for young folk to learn the value of having a job. Too bad that concept was off shored as well.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

It's nothing but pure greed that's destroying this country, when a CEO runs a company in the ground, and he get's a million dollar severance package to disappear. Executive compensation is at all time high, while mostly everyone else struggles. It's not morally right.

[Downriviera]

I'll take a Big Mac, medium fry and a large coke to go. "That'll be $18.50 sir. Would you like a hot apple pie for an extra $5.00?"

[Honky Tonk]

I'll take a Big Mac, medium fry and a large coke to go. "That'll be $18.50 sir. Would you like a hot apple pie for an extra $5.00?"

Now THAT'S fine dining. There are places already around town where you can get better meals for less money.

[JBMcB]

One point of data: my family runs a small retail business. When minimum wage was $4.25/hour, they could afford to hire a dozen extra seasonal employees, mostly college kids. When it was increased to $5.85/hour, they could only afford to hire 6. When it was increased to $7.25, they could afford 3.

Cost of labor goes up, their profits don't go up accordingly and their prices are stuck [[they are competing with cheap on-line sales) then employment goes down.

[TKshreve]

One point of data: my family runs a small retail business. When minimum wage was $4.25/hour, they could afford to hire a dozen extra seasonal employees, mostly college kids. When it was increased to $5.85/hour, they could only afford to hire 6. When it was increased to $7.25, they could afford 3.

Cost of labor goes up, their profits don't go up accordingly and their prices are stuck [[they are competing with cheap on-line sales) then employment goes down.

Doesn't this fly in the face of capitalism though? Not one inkling of your case study suggests that the company's operating needs directed the amount of people it required to operate. It's akin to saying they would have hired 30 workers @ $0.75/hour. See anything wrong with this logic?

[JBMcB]

Doesn't this fly in the face of capitalism though?

Capitalism is just a system of economic exchange, it doesn't dictate how a company should be run. Maybe you're thinking of a particular area of microeconomic theroy?

Not one inkling of your case study suggests that the company's operating needs directed the amount of people it required to operate.

You assume there is a hard and fast equation for the number of staff you need. The difference is my family doesn't get a break now. Instead of doing paperwork during the day they stay late and do it after the shop closes. They basically don't leave the store for anything during the busy season. You could say it has improved their productivity, but they'd be willing to forgo some profit for not having to work ten hour days, seven days a week constantly for five months. That value proposition makes sense at $4.25 an hour, but not at $7.25 an hour.

[Wesley Mouch]

;385814]Doesn't this fly in the face of capitalism though? Not one inkling of your case study suggests that the company's operating needs directed the amount of people it required to operate[/B]. It's akin to saying they would have hired 30 workers @ $0.75/hour. See anything wrong with this logic?

JBMcB explained it well. His logic also works for larger companies Let's say you can buy one of those order-taker machines for $6,000/yr, $10k w/ repairs and operating costs. If you face a $3/hr. cost increase in minimum wages, you can assume your McD order taker will go up around $12k a year. [[$3 x 80 hours a week open for business x 1 position). Decision: its worth the investment. This is essentially the same as the Big 3 and robots.

To look at your '30 workers @ $0.75' argument, you are actually right. They would hire 30 workers if they could [[ignoring regulatory and bureaucratic costs). But few would work at that wage. Its the market.

[313WX]

I'll take a Big Mac, medium fry and a large coke to go. "That'll be $18.50 sir. Would you like a hot apple pie for an extra $5.00?"

That's coming rather the minimum wage is raised or not, thanks to good ol' Benny at the helm of those printing presses.