Whole Foods CEO, On Opening Detroit Store: 'We're Going After Elitism, Racism'

[Bham1982]

On a side note...Brooklyn's getting two Whole Foods?

Well, if I didn't already have my awesome local grocer off the Graham L stop, I'd go there for my flaxseed and yoga pant-laden female watching...

WF is opening on Bedford Ave. & North 4th Street. The store will actually be mostly underground. Other retail will be at street level, and condos above.

[iheartthed]

was the Detroit site a hazmat site? I thought it was a parking lot?

Not sure what was originally there before the parking lot. I think it was brownfield site because they did apply for Michigan's version of brownfield tax credits.

[Danny]

Excellent ideal for Whole Foods CEO! Detroit's local supermarkets were built since in 1920s as small Krogers, A&P, and Dixieland mom and pop centers. Then suddenly came the Chaldeans. They brought 90% of the mom and pop groceries and turn them into 'G-MARTS' [[as in Ghetto Marts and Liquor Stores) As hopeless oppression centers for black folks in Detroit to destroy themselves by purchasing rotten food. And alomost wipe out black owned markets. Whole Foods will provide REAL healthy food for low and middle income Detroiters. I can't wait that day when it opens.

[TexasT]

"every city I've ever lived in [[Houston and Chicago included) gave incentives to bring grocery stores to the city."

" Just is what it is; what goes on in suburbs isn't always what works in cities."

"the RULE is subsidization, with the exception to the rule being non-subsidized development."

You keep claiming this, but still haven't come up with one store not in a high-poverty hood. It's pretty obvious this is a very rare occasion if there isn't one single store in a prosperous area, especially in Chicago, which has a rep. for being crazy pro-development, and is infamous for giving out TIF subsidies like candy.

Did you just make up that bolded part and attribute it to me?

I stand by the other two statements. Other cities I've lived in have absolutely given incentives to bring grocery stores to neighborhoods similar to Midtown and better [[the Heights in Houston, River West, Hyde Park and West Loop in Chicago). How you derived that I said every store is subsidized is a matter of your reading comprehension.

And as many other posters have pointed out to me, no point in debating with you - you'll always move the goal posts [[every non-Gold Coast neighborhood is the ghetto, Chicago is an exception and doesn't count, etc etc etc).

[Bham1982]

And as many other posters have pointed out to me, no point in debating with you - you'll always move the goal posts and make up your own facts.

No, that's only you. I've never moved the goal posts.

Still waiting for this one subsidized grocery store in downtown Chicago. Methinks I'll be waiting a while...

[Eber Brock Ward]

LOL @ Bham. The Mariano's that got all those subsidies in the West Loop is in the hood?

http://goo.gl/maps/QrVL0

Sure looks like it. It's mostly new condos and lofts just across the Ryan from the Loop. Not more than a couple blocks from other "hood" mainstays like holistic spas, an Ulta, the Crowne Plaza, a Starbucks, their Greektown, and all of the high end restaurants/bars/clubs/boutiques on Randolph.

Signed,

Guy who had two friends that lived in the Emerald [[http://www.emeraldchicago.com), just across the way.

PS - The Emerald and many other nearby developments were mid/late aughts.

[bailey]

Not sure what was originally there before the parking lot. I think it was brownfield site because they did apply for Michigan's version of brownfield tax credits.

Ah. well, another question would be, does anything being built in an old industrial city like Detroit get built without getting some brownfield credits?

Yes, this is the main point. WF is obviously welcome to build wherever they want. The size and subsidy can be debated, but the comment is absurd.

They picked the whitest and most affluent possible location in the city, also sitting very obviously on the I-75 onramp for DMC staff, and claims it's a vehicle to "fight racism and classism". WF is virulently anti-union, very class-aware marketing, and overwhelmingly locates in rich white areas [[current MI locations- Birmingham/Troy, Rochester Hills, Ann Arbor and West Bloomfield).

Founder & CEO is a Libertarian, BTW.

From Crains on the location where WF will be fighting racism, elitism and setting up its food desert oasis.

According to a 2010 Social Compact study funded by the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., Midtown has the city's highest rate of resident income per acre at $231,961. Social Compact is a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit that measures community economic indicators to spur urban investment.

The study, which was updated in 2009 from a previous one in 2006, shows Midtown also as having the highest average household income of new homebuyers at $113,788, followed by the Central Business District at $111,509 and Indian Village with average new homeowner income of $111,200

IIRC median household income in Detroit as a whole is about 25k.

[Bham1982]

LOL @ Bham. The Mariano's that got all those subsidies in the West Loop is in the hood?

The West Side of Chicago is the hood. Sorry to burst the Chamber of Commerce talking points.

The West Loop specifically is transitional between downtown and the ghetto, has characteristics of both, and obviously has undesirable demographics, or grocery stores would be willing to open there absend TIF subsidies. Some professionals live on the western fringes of downtown because it's cheaper than the North Side, but the overall demographics are less-than-desirable.

I don't even understand your argument. You can't simulateously argue that an area is desirable, and that an area is undesirable. Which is it? If the location were desirable, you could buy groceries. TIF subsidies are only available to distressed areas.

[TexasT]

No, that's only you. I've never moved the goal posts.

Still waiting for this one subsidized grocery store in downtown Chicago. Methinks I'll be waiting a while...

I don't even know of a grocery store in downtown Chicago. The closest one I can think of is the Jewel Osco at Des Plaines & Kedzie [[which received millions in subsidies).

Claiming everything not Gold Coast or downtown is the ghetto is moving the goalposts. Claiming that the area of town with some of the finest restaurants or our president's neighborhood is the ghetto is just laughable.

[Eber Brock Ward]

BTW, every new development in here has been at least partially subsidized [[where blue): https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/e...strictmap.html

Also:
- The Jewel-Osco in the South Loop that got $5.6 million in 2000 [[http://tigger.uic.edu/htbin/codewrap....php?Ref=T-031)
- The Dominicks off Roosevelt that got $4.5 million [[http://tigger.uic.edu/htbin/codewrap....php?Ref=T-039)
- Central Loop[[!) Ethnic Grocer that got $1.1 million [[http://tigger.uic.edu/htbin/codewrap....php?Ref=T-014)

And so on. Beyond that, and the Evanston and Hyde Park groceries I posted earlier, usually grocery stores aren't named as the recipient of the TIF funds, but rather receive them thru a pass thru from 1234 Whatever Street, when 1234 Whatever Street is the named recipient of the funds. This is because, unlike these standalone stores where the grocer develops the site and receives the funds, the WF and Trader Joe's are tenants, thus the subsidy goes to the LLC or Corp that is the developer.

Here's a handy map, too, in response to your usual canard about other cities not having to subsidize projects in their downtowns: http://www.uic.edu/cuppa/voorheesctr...tif/index.html.

Keep in mind, too, that those are **ONLY** TIF projects, and don't include tax credits or deductions, credits for employing local workers, and other creative subsidies for these businesses.

I structured these deals for a living for years when I lived there. Believe me when I tell you that almost every project is subsidized in the Loop and surrounding areas in some way or another. Not too many years ago, the media and UIC started banging the drum alleging misuse of TIFs, so the industry has been using other workarounds in addition to TIFs.

[Eber Brock Ward]

TIF subsidies are only available to distressed areas.

Look at the map I linked to. You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I worked with the tif statute on a daily basis for years. The bar is *low* to declare an area "blighted" under that statute.

Beyond that, one of my mentors that I worked under during that period was a key author of the statute.

Also, here's a nice graphic from the Chicago Reader showing that it's actually areas that are not blighted that received the bulk of the TIF subsidies over a particular period that I did a lot of my work there:

[Bham1982]

I don't even know of a grocery store in downtown Chicago. The closest one I can think of is the Jewel Osco at Des Plaines & Kedzie [[which received millions in subsidies).

Well that's funny, I just mentioned a bunch, and brand new. WalMart Fresh on Broadway. Plum Market in Old Town. WF recently reopened in Lincoln Park. Where are the subsidies here? How about the newer Fox & Obel? The WF in Lakeview isn't that old either.

Claiming everything not Gold Coast or downtown is the ghetto is moving the goalposts. Claiming that the area of town with some of the finest restaurants or our president's neighborhood is the ghetto is just laughable.

Maybe you should direct your laughter to the City of Chicago.

Chicago only offers TIF subsidies to blighted areas. You cannot qualify for a penny in TIF subsidies in unless your neighborhood qualifies as blighted. You MUST be blighted.

Therefore, if a project receives TIF subsidies, and it lies within the city limits of Chicago, it means the city has officially designed the neighborhood as blighted, using specific criteria like poverty rate, household income, crime rate, etc.

The official Chicago TIF subsidy language is "TIF is intended to spur investment in blighted areas where development would not otherwise occur."

http://www.uic.edu/cuppa/voorheesctr...ml/tif101.html

So argue with the City of Chicago, not me. These areas suck, officially.

[TexasT]

Well that's funny, I just mentioned a bunch, and brand new. WalMart Fresh on Broadway. Plum Market in Old Town. WF recently reopened in Lincoln Park. Where are the subsidies here? How about the newer Fox & Obel? The WF in Lakeview isn't that old either.

Oh so Lincoln Park and Lakeview are downtown but River West, three blocks from the Loop, is not? WTF?

And I don't know for sure those didn't receive subsidies. All I can go on is what is public.

[Eber Brock Ward]

I will also provide you this article, Bham, to help further educate you:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...nt?oid=1218391

Not entirely accurate, because the Reader muckrakes a bit, but it should give you a good idea of the full picture.

[TexasT]

Also, here's a nice graphic from the Chicago Reader showing that it's actually areas that are not blighted that received the bulk of the TIF subsidies over a period I did a lot of my work there:

So I guess by Bham's definition, the Loop and all those nice north-side neighborhoods he considers "downtown" must be full of blight.

[Bham1982]

I structured these deals for a living for years when I lived there. Believe me when I tell you that almost every project is subsidized in the Loop and surrounding areas in some way or another. Not too many years ago, the media and UIC started banging the drum alleging misuse of TIFs, so the industry has been using other workarounds in addition to TIFs.

No, I won't believe you, because 1. I'm real estate, we have a presence in Chicago, and I know what you're saying is wrong [[I have done deals in Lincoln Park and Gold Coast and there are no subsidies for our grocers) and 2. What you're claiming directly contradicts TIF legislation.

So sorry, you're wrong. Unless you're claiming that downtown Chicago is a giant ghetto, and every single grocery store [[except of course for every single one where I know the terms of the deal) receives subsidies under blight designation, this is untrue.

[Bham1982]

So I guess by Bham's definition, the Loop and all those nice north-side neighborhoods he considers "downtown" must be full of blight.

Wrong again. It's the City of Chicago's definition, not mine.

And, yes, you have to be officially designated as blighted at the time of the subsidy. There are plenty of blighted areas close to downtown Chicago [[Cabrini Green, parts of South/West sides closest to Loop, Lathrup Homes along Diversey) and those areas could certaintly qualify.

[TexasT]

"The most notable is at the Willis Tower. In May the City Council voted in favor of giving $3.8 million in TIF funding to Willis Holdings Group, the tower's chief tenant, and earlier this month it signed off on $35 million in subsidies to help United Airlines cover the cost of moving into the 110-story skyscraper.

But according to the internal budget, the city has "pending" plans to spend still more—$13 million in 2010 and another $15 million in 2011—for a line item called "Willis Tower Rehab & Modernization Project."

The Loop near the Sears Tower is blighted??

[Bham1982]

Oh so Lincoln Park and Lakeview are downtown but River West, three blocks from the Loop, is not? WTF?

You must be new to Chicago. Lakeview and Lincoln Park are prime, what RE industry calls "Green Zone". West Loop is anything but.

Try and rent an apartment around Armitage, then find something comparable west of the Chicago River [[or better yet, west of the freeway), then get back to me.

[Bham1982]

The Loop near the Sears Tower is blighted??

Hell, yes. The Willis Tower has been a financial albatross, and has been difficult to fill since Sears left. It's basically a white elephant.

In commercial RE terms, Willis Tower is a turkey. Not conventionally blighted like the West Side or South Side [[ghettos and the like), but would be pretty much vacant without subsidies.

[TexasT]

You must be new to Chicago. Lakeview and Lincoln Park are prime, what RE industry calls "Green Zone". West Loop is anything but.

Try and rent an apartment around Armitage, then find something comparable west of the Chicago River [[or better yet, west of the freeway), then get back to me.

Uh, I lived in Chicago for years. I'm not saying West Loop = East Lake View, I'm saying West Loop and River West are not "the ghetto."

[TexasT]

Hell, yes. The Willis Tower has been a financial albatross, and has been difficult to fill since Sears left. It's basically a white elephant.

In commercial RE terms, Willis Tower is a turkey. Not conventionally blighted like the West Side or South Side [[ghettos and the like), but would be pretty much vacant without subsidies.

Oh ok, so now TIF doesn't mean blighted anymore, just vacant without subsidies. Because just a few posts ago, you said :

"Chicago only offers TIF subsidies to blighted areas. You cannot qualify for a penny in TIF subsidies in unless your neighborhood qualifies as blighted. You MUST be blighted.

Therefore, if a project receives TIF subsidies, and it lies within the city limits of Chicago, it means the city has officially designed the neighborhood as blighted, using specific criteria like poverty rate, household income, crime rate, etc."

What about Ohio & Wabash, in the heart of the Gold Coast. TIF district #100. Gold Coast has blight?

[Bham1982]

Uh, I lived in Chicago for years. I'm not saying West Loop = East Lake View, I'm saying West Loop and River West are not "the ghetto."

Not to you, maybe, but to the City of Chicago, they are. They are officially blighted.

[TexasT]

Not to you, maybe, but to the City of Chicago, they are. They are officially blighted.

I think we've established that the CoC's definition of "blight" is rather off. The Loop and Gold Coast are not blighted, and neither are West Loop and River West. Use common sense here. Like Eber said, Chicago twists the definition of blight to fit what it wants.

[Bham1982]

What about Ohio & Wabash, in the heart of the Gold Coast. TIF district #100. Gold Coast has blight?

If what you're saying is true, then yes. The City of Chicago needs to desginate an area blighted.

But I bet you're wrong. I am highly skeptical that a grocery store, or any other private business entity, received TIF subsidies to open in the Gold Coast. Gold Coast official neighborhood boundaries extend well west of Wells St., into the projects, so that's probably where the subsidies went.