Tracking the EM's progress

**TexasT** · June-03-13, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Small potatoes? Being name checked in every single news article to be written about this historic debacle from now on? it could have COST them money and they'd still be doing everything they could to get there.

If that were true, Snyder's first several choices wouldn't have turned the job down. Anthony Williams and McKenna Long & Aldridge declined [[I was hoping for him to take it before I heard of Orr).

Asked during a short, one-on-one session with The Associated Press if any potential candidates for such a job had already declined it, Snyder responded: "Oh yeah. There were quite a few people who were in that camp."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/snyde...-detroits-fate

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-03-13, 11:35 AM

Yeah, Orr and JD have to be looking at it as a loss leader.

Good, I'd rather have him/them incentivized to succeed. If they do, they get PAID [[<-- cap letters!) in the future. If not, the opportunity cost for both was pretty damned high.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-03-13, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Small potatoes? Being name checked in every single news article to be written about this historic debacle from now on? it could have COST them money and they'd still be doing everything they could to get there.

These sort of firms pay to stay quiet. Being written about is of little value to them. Their clients know them.

I like to believe that Mr. Orr is sincere, and is doing this mostly because its a tremendous opportunity to make a real difference in a real place that matters to real people. I've taken those kind of chances in my work life. Done things that weren't always the best financial decision -- but make a small difference in the world. I've not regretted it.

Best of luck to you, Mr. Orr.

**48205to24** · June-05-13, 02:01 PM

Snyder Recruited Orr before a financial emergency was declared.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013060...rgency-manager

**TexasT** · June-05-13, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by 48205to24

Snyder Recruited Orr before a financial emergency was declared.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013060...rgency-manager

Yeah, still doesn't bother me. Who the hell didn't know that Detroit was in a financial emergency? People complain because the commissioned a report to tell us what we already knew and then complain because the state already knew what was common sense to anyone who knows anything about Detroit. So which is it?

Part of knowing whether to appoint an emergency manager is knowing whether you can get one who will do the job correctly. So many people turned down the job offer - what if he seriously could not get a qualified candidate? I would hope that would play into his analysis.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-05-13, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by 48205to24

Snyder Recruited Orr before a financial emergency was declared.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013060...rgency-manager

I'm 100% in favor of government transparency. I believe 100% of what the government does should be disclosed -- maybe delayed disclosure depending on the situation -- but fully disclosed. They work for us after all.

That said, the 'open meeting' act lawsuits seem like an invitation for those against anything to delay and obstruct.

They discussed the EM issue, and talked to a few people. Don't we want that? Do we really want our government to not act on anything in fear of lawsuits?

Exploratory contacts with people and ideas about rescuing Michigan's big city is what I expect of our Nerd in Chief.

**compn** · June-05-13, 07:40 PM

the open meetings act isnt that hard to follow. have a meeting? make it public. have a discussion? make it public.
since its THE LAW , snyder should have followed it, no?

let me put it another way.
one of the lawsuits was brought to get access to the emails [[which a judge ordered, and were released a few weeks ago).

if you think the journalist/activist who brought the lawsuit was just trying to obstruct and delay snyder, why did snyder obstruct and delay the release of the emails?
snyder could have just released the emails and records on day one of the lawsuit. but he and billy schuette fought it in the court. why?

why is snyder delaying justice and breaking the law? why is our attorney general not advising the gov to follow the open meetings act and actively fighting to break the law?

**313WX** · June-05-13, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by compn

why is snyder delaying justice and breaking the law? why is our attorney general not advising the gov to follow the open meetings act and actively fighting to break the law?

Because Bill Schuette is also in cahoots with it all. You're talking about the same guy who managed to resurrect a zombified law from the dead after a citizen's repeal.

Not to mention he has a Supreme Court and Appeals Court that's behind him 100% politically [[5 Republicans, 2 Democrats on the Supreme Court bench). I bet Snyder and Co. was absolutely shocked with Judge Kelly's swing vote to have PA 4 placed on the ballot.

That's why ultimately this all ended up in the federal courts. This will all probably end with some sort of Federal Intervention. The distrust between the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan is too deep [[for fair reasons IMO).

**corktownyuppie** · June-05-13, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Because Bill Schuette is also in cahoots with it all. You're talking about the same guy who managed to resurrect a zombified law from the dead after a citizen's repeal.

Not to mention he has a Supreme Court and Appeals Court that's behind him 100% politically [[5 Republicans, 2 Democrats on the Supreme Court bench). I bet Snyder and Co. was absolutely shocked with Judge Kelly's swing vote to have PA 4 placed on the ballot.

That's why ultimately this all ended up in the federal courts. This will all probably end with some sort of Federal Intervention. The distrust between the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan is too deep [[for fair reasons IMO).

I agree that this will likely end with the Feds involved...but I think that the Feds will pretty much side with Lansing for a whole host of reasons, the biggest of which is once you leave the state -- let alone the city limits -- the overriding sentiment is that while Detroit and Detroiters aren't 100% to blame for their situation, they are certainly at least 50% or more. And regardless of who is "at fault" -- and one can make strong arguments that Detroiters were backed into this corner -- you can also make stronger arguments that Detroiters will not be able to get out of this corner without technocratic intervention.

Forget about the GOP for a second. The Tom Barrow and the Michigan Citizen Crowd will probably not even get political support from more than 15-20% of the Democrats. You take the GOP and add the centrists, the independents, the RINO-Republicans, the Blue Dog Democrats and a judicial system that is center-right...

...then add that even Kevyn Orr is a Democrat who worked on Obama's campaign...I think what's happening right now is the future of Detroit.

**313WX** · June-06-13, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I agree that this will likely end with the Feds involved...but I think that the Feds will pretty much side with Lansing for a whole host of reasons, the biggest of which is once you leave the state -- let alone the city limits -- the overriding sentiment is that while Detroit and Detroiters aren't 100% to blame for their situation, they are certainly at least 50% or more. And regardless of who is "at fault" -- and one can make strong arguments that Detroiters were backed into this corner -- you can also make stronger arguments that Detroiters will not be able to get out of this corner without technocratic intervention.

Forget about the GOP for a second. The Tom Barrow and the Michigan Citizen Crowd will probably not even get political support from more than 15-20% of the Democrats. You take the GOP and add the centrists, the independents, the RINO-Republicans, the Blue Dog Democrats and a judicial system that is center-right...

...then add that even Kevyn Orr is a Democrat who worked on Obama's campaign...I think what's happening right now is the future of Detroit.

I don't even think anyone's going to side with anyone.

The purpose of a mediator of some sorts is so an equitable solution can be worked out for all parties.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-06-13, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by compn

the open meetings act isnt that hard to follow. have a meeting? make it public. have a discussion? make it public. Since its THE LAW , snyder should have followed it, no?...snip...

A court will no doubt wisely decide this, but what is not a meeting under the law? If you make a phone call to someone, is it a meeting? I'm not clear on this. The obstructionism seems to be me to be trying to call everything a meeting. Thus, you are always in violation unless you sit quietly in your office with earplugs and write memos.

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-06-13, 10:26 AM

A meeting requires the following four things, generally -

[[1) convening of a public body at which [[2) a quorum is [[2) present [[3) for the purpose of deliberating toward or rendering a decision on a public policy.

Usually a quorum is a majority of the seats of the board/commission/whatever, but that's usually spelled out in the by-laws or authorizing legislation of that body. So the question is: what's a public body? It is --

any state or local legislative or governing body, including a board, commission, committee, subcommittee, authority, or council, that is empowered by state constitution, statute, charter, ordinance, resolution, or rule to exercise governmental or proprietary authority or perform a governmental or proprietary function; a lessee of such a body performing an essential public purpose and function pursuant to the lease agreement; or the board of a nonprofit corporation formed by a city under section 4o of the home rule city act, 1909 PA 279, MCL 117.4o

Clear as mud, right? Well, that's what the statute says.

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-06-13, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by compn

the open meetings act isnt that hard to follow. have a meeting? make it public. have a discussion? make it public.
since its THE LAW , snyder should have followed it, no?

Snyder doesn't need to follow it because he is not a "state or local legislative or governing body." See what I quoted above. Same way the DMV folks don't have to meet publicly for their weekly team meeting or whatever. It's just legislatures/boards/commissions/etc.

**professorscott** · June-06-13, 12:45 PM

All of this hoohah about the manner in which Mr. Orr was hired is intentionally and purposefully obstructive, but is just a desperate flailing in the wind, trying to keep people's focus away from objective facts.

The City is finished playing three-card monte with money. It's ability to borrow is at an end; it will no longer be able to use its Visa card to make the payment on its Discover card. This is true whether Mr. Orr is telling it to us, or a City Councilman, or the guy sitting next to you at the barber shop.

The question is not whether the City is insolvent: it is. That's all there is to it. The question is, how do we best try to manage our way through the impending catastrophe.

Pissing and moaning about such ridiculous things as that perhaps Gov. Snyder spoke with Mr. Orr before hiring him [[what?! a JOB INTERVIEW?!! How outRAGEous!!) is just an attempt to make people forget that the house is on fire.

**Honky Tonk** · June-06-13, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

All of this hoohah about the manner in which Mr. Orr was hired is intentionally and purposefully obstructive, but is just a desperate flailing in the wind, trying to keep people's focus away from objective facts.

The City is finished playing three-card monte with money. It's ability to borrow is at an end; it will no longer be able to use its Visa card to make the payment on its Discover card. This is true whether Mr. Orr is telling it to us, or a City Councilman, or the guy sitting next to you at the barber shop.

The question is not whether the City is insolvent: it is. That's all there is to it. The question is, how do we best try to manage our way through the impending catastrophe.

Pissing and moaning about such ridiculous things as that perhaps Gov. Snyder spoke with Mr. Orr before hiring him [[what?! a JOB INTERVIEW?!! How outRAGEous!!) is just an attempt to make people forget that the house is on fire.

Thank You Sir! IF YOU were governor and facing the possibility of YOUR biggest City going belly up, what would YOU do? Sit and wait until the fan stops spinning because it's now clogged with shit, or start preperation for the "what if" factor? It's amazing to me how many people mistake due dilligence for conspiracy.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-06-13, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Thank You Sir! IF YOU were governor and facing the possibility of YOUR biggest City going belly up, what would YOU do? Sit and wait until the fan stops spinning because it's now clogged with shit, or start preperation for the "what if" factor? It's amazing to me how many people mistake due dilligence for conspiracy.

Nice to hear sanity around here.