Has anyone ever held LBP's nose to the grindstone regarding Pontiac?

**gameguy56** · May-03-13, 06:01 AM

Oakland County's County seat is, to put it mildly, not in great shape.

You'd think with the re-newed interest in Urban/walkable environments that Pontiac could be Oakland County's ace in the hole, it could be a much bigger royal oak if redeveloped correctly.

If Macomb County can at least make Mt. Clemens a somewhat appealing place for jury duty, why can't one of america's wealthiest county's do something about its county seat?

**jtf1972** · May-03-13, 06:26 AM

Not being a resident of Oakland County I only have an uneducated, outside opinion. It seems to me that Pontiac is a problem LBP ignores because if he acknowledges it, then he is acknowledging that there are problems in Oakland County. He'd rather point out the positives than actually tackle the problems. It is my opinion that if a giant sinkhole were to open up and take every square inch of Pontiac [[but no more,) LBP would relish the opportunity to have Auburn Hills #2 built on the site.

**gameguy56** · May-03-13, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

Not being a resident of Oakland County I only have an uneducated, outside opinion. It seems to me that Pontiac is a problem LBP ignores because if he acknowledges it, then he is acknowledging that there are problems in Oakland County. He'd rather point out the positives than actually tackle the problems. It is my opinion that if a giant sinkhole were to open up and take every square inch of Pontiac [[but no more,) LBP would relish the opportunity to have Auburn Hills #2 built on the site.

As an Oakland County resident myself I think you may be on to something.

**Johnnny5** · May-03-13, 07:02 AM

LB Patterson deserves a lot of the credit for Oakland County's success, and he also shares some of the blame for Pontiac's failure. The issue with Pontiac is that as County Executive he just didn't/doesn't have the ability to do much. Yeah, he could have thrown money at the city and possibly delayed the financial train wreck, but without the ability to influence or make direct decisions that would have just delayed the inevitable. The elected officials in Pontiac were nearly as corrupt and ineffective as in Detroit, but I've never heard anyone try to put the blame for Detroit's failures on Ficano.

I think in both cases [[Detroit and Pontiac) state intervention is the only way these cities stand a chance. It has helped in Pontiac with the expansion of the sheriff's department, fire response times, and the reworking of the finances surrounding the waste water treatment plant. Hopefully the EFM in Detroit will be able to make some similar changes.

**rb336** · May-03-13, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

LB Patterson deserves a lot of the credit for Oakland County's success,

No, not really. When he took office, OC was one of the five richest counties in America. Not anymore. His big initiative - Automation Alley - hasn't exactly brought in droves of economic investment

**Johnnny5** · May-03-13, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

No, not really. When he took office, OC was one of the five richest counties in America. Not anymore. His big initiative - Automation Alley - hasn't exactly brought in droves of economic investment

He's been leading Oakland County for over 20 years, so he was here for much of the growth and prosperity. Even with the lengthy recession and dwindling tax revenues Oakland County is still on solid financial ground and much of that is due to his leadership. I know a lot of Detroiters hate the guy, but he has done a very good job for the citizens of Oakland County [[And that's what he was elected to do). He's only a county exec, so you can't really blame him for the negative effects that the near death of the Big 3 and globalization have brought to Michigan.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-03-13, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

He's been leading Oakland County for over 20 years, so he was here for much of the growth and prosperity. Even with the lengthy recession and dwindling tax revenues Oakland County is still on solid financial ground and much of that is due to his leadership. He's only a county exec, so you can't really blame him for the negative affects that the near death of the Big 3 and globalization have brought to Michigan.

All Brooksie had to do was show up in time for a giant wave of taxpayer-funded sprawl to wash over Oakland County.

**Bham1982** · May-03-13, 09:17 AM

Mt. Clemens is a dump and barely in better shape than Pontiac. Pontiac, BTW, was never that urban. It was mostly thrown up on the cheap in the early 20th century, with simple working class housing, to serve auto workers. And, it isn't nice to say, but Pontiac, in its current shape, serves a need for the wealthy and connected . It's the most heavily Mexican community in Metro Detroit, and those workers serve as low-cost labor for the adjacent Bloomfields. Improvement in Pontiac would probably worsen the labor pool for the wealthy.

**rb336** · May-03-13, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

He's been leading Oakland County for over 20 years, so he was here for much of the growth and prosperity.

The last 20 years aren't "much of the growth and prosperity" for Oakland County. At all. What is positive that he has done? Novi may have grown, but at the expense of housing prices in West Bloomfield, then again, that started in the late 70s-80s. OC Is still the wealthiest county in Michigan. Pre-LBP, it was in the top ten nationwide. It isn't anymore. He was supportive of that catastrophe on Telegraph. at least at one point. He maintains his position by being divisive.

**Bham1982** · May-03-13, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

The last 20 years aren't "much of the growth and prosperity" for Oakland County.

Compared to the past, you're right that Oakland growth has slowed down [[which makes sense, given it's more built out now) but compared to the other local counties, I disagree, and Oakland is a big outperformer. Oakland County, per the Census, has the fastest population growth among the Metro Detroit counties. It ranks #1 on most metrics, and has the highest possible bond rating. Brooks may be an ass, but he knows how to run the county.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-03-13, 07:30 AM

Oakland County has been serving as the planning department for Pontiac for several years now. They have plans to rid the town of the Woodward Loop and to daylight the Huron River as a way to reconnect the City Center with the neighborhoods and bring a San Antonio style riverwalk.

http://pontiaclivability.org/about/r...ternative.aspx

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...3604084396.txt

**rb336** · May-03-13, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Oakland County has been serving as the planning department for Pontiac for several years now. They have plans to rid the town of the Woodward Loop and to daylight the Huron River as a way to reconnect the City Center with the neighborhoods and bring a San Antonio style riverwalk.

http://pontiaclivability.org/about/r...ternative.aspx

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...3604084396.txt

They've been knocking that idea around for at least 7 years. It will never happen

**bailey** · May-03-13, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Oakland County's County seat is, to put it mildly, not in great shape.

You'd think with the re-newed interest in Urban/walkable environments that Pontiac could be Oakland County's ace in the hole, it could be a much bigger royal oak if redeveloped correctly.

If Macomb County can at least make Mt. Clemens a somewhat appealing place for jury duty, why can't one of america's wealthiest county's do something about its county seat?

Well, for one thing, in Pontiac you're not going to Jury duty downtown, you're going out to 1200 Telegraph in a stand alone complex..which predates LBP. What would Downtown Mt. Clemens look like if the Courthouse and Govt seat was up at Gratiot and M-59?

**EastsideAl** · May-03-13, 10:04 AM

We would all do well to remember that L. Brooks Patterson began his public career by publicly showing contempt for a large percentage of Pontiac's population and their children.

**gnome** · May-03-13, 10:11 AM

Does anyone have an idea on what LBP could do to help Pontiac? I do know the Sheriff now patrol the streets after the PPD was disbanded. Waterford now provides fire safety.

As a former Pontiac resident I have witnessed the long miserable decline of the city. My grandfather moved there in 1929, raised his family on wages from Pontiac Motors and built a home in the shadow of the Baldwin plant. I moved in with Grandpa when he was getting on in years and stayed there until he died. A family difference of opinion required the home to be sold. 30 + years later that same house is for sale at a third of its 1980s price.

I place much of the blame on GM for closing most of their manufacturing facilities. The Baldwin Plant is an example of a complete corporate fuck up. It had been rehabbed to build Fieros on a Japanese-style team approach. An idea where a group of 7 - 10 people built a single car and elected their own management. Incentives where set up to meet quality and productivity benchmarks. The Fiero was a massive success when it was first introduced, but fell out of favor when its marketing didn't live up to promised performance.

what was once a vehicle that sold hundred of thousands of units was discontinued when sales leveled off at about 50k a yr.

contrast that with the Mazda Miata which has been a success for the brand while never selling more than 40k units a yr.

corporate myopia killed Pontiac. IMHO .

**gnome** · May-03-13, 10:36 AM

Neither one of you two have the faintest idea about what you are talking about.

**DTWflyer** · May-03-13, 11:20 AM

Pontiac is a perfect-storm of the following:
- Poor planning - Wide Track, Burying the Clinton River
- Mis-guided developments - Pontiac Plan, Phoenix Center, Silverdome, Bloomfield Park, Oakland County offices on Telegraph
- Inept city leaders
- Corporate downsizing/globalization/failed leadership - GM
- No money, dwindling tax base

**DTWflyer** · May-03-13, 11:24 AM

http://dondavidson.blogspot.com/

Intesting stuff about Pontiac's past.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-03-13, 06:19 PM

Per the Census you will find Macomb and Livingston far surpass the growth rates of Oakland. The only metric Oakland beats the others on is on rich folks.