Why do so many people in Detroit walk in the street?

**artds** · April-22-13, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That's for state highways.

No it isn't. The statute refers to "highways", and if you look in the definitions section of the statute, highway and street are synonymous, and are defined as follows:

257.20 “Highway or street” defined.

Sec. 20. “Highway or street” means the entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel.

**artds** · April-22-13, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Streets were not meant to be solely the domain of automobiles: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...ywalking/1837/

That's nice. Now back to the part where we have a law that says walking in the street is unlawful.

**Whitehouse** · April-22-13, 11:54 AM

Fear of falling debris?

**p69rrh51** · April-22-13, 11:55 AM

I was watching a very stupid woman walking on E. Outer Drive between Cornwall and Waveney last night. She was weaving in and out the parked cars while a perfectly good sidewalk was just a few feet away. Now I usually drive 45MPH [[the speed limit is 35MPH)on that section and I am not the only one driving that fast. My friends and I used to call the section between Mack and E. Warren, Outer Drive International Speedway when we were younger and many still drive at excessive speeds on the street. She puts herself in danger just to walk in the street I do not get it.
Its a very big problem in Grosse Pointe and I let those engaged in the practice know they are breaking the law, usually getting a gesture well known to most on here.
As for those who jaywalk across main streets taking their time thinking they own the street I have targeted them in the past! I do enjoy the look on their faces when I just missed them. On the other hand if you are properly crossing the street I have no problem waiting for them to cross. In many instances they are surprised I wait for them.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-22-13, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

You really haven't heard of jaywalking?

Walking in the street and jaywalking are two different things. As long as you walk roughly on the right side why would it be illegal? There are places where there is nowhere else to walk. In this case, do pedestrians give up all rights?

I side with safety concerns [[jumped, dogs, sidewalks in bad repair). Now the people who you see walking down Grand River during peak hour? They are crazy.

This has been discussed in past threads BTW.

**Danny** · April-22-13, 12:01 PM

In the Ghettohoods of Detroit, waking the streets is not illegal. They just love walking in those big sidewalks.

**bailey** · April-22-13, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That's for state highways.

what artds said. "highway" is a term of art. it applies. It is not legal to walk in the street when there is a sidewalk. I don't understand why you seem to think it is or should be.

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Walking in the street and jaywalking are two different things. As long as you walk roughly on the right side why would it be illegal? There are places where there is nowhere else to walk. In this case, do pedestrians give up all rights?

If there is no sidewalk, then one can walk in the street legally on the left.

I side with safety concerns [[jumped, dogs, sidewalks in bad repair). Now the people who you see walking down Grand River during peak hour? They are crazy.

I'm not sure that anyone disagrees with the former... it's the later [[meandering in traffic lanes of major thoroughfares when a perfectly usable sidewalk is present) that is the issue.

**marshamusic** · April-22-13, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

it's an unfortunate byproduct of today's gang culture and is not teenagers taking over or hooliganism. it's safer to walk down the middle of the street because you have a broader view of the environment. if you walk past trees and homes, you're more likely to get surprised by someone out to do you harm.

take a listen to this excerpt from npr on chicago kids and gangs:
http://www.npr.org/2013/02/21/172593...igned-to-gangs

Granted, that is probably true, where applicable, but I'm thinking of areas where there are few - if any - trees or homes to provide reasons for avoiding the sidewalk; stretches like John R. near Piquette, which is the last place I saw this type of walking in the streets.

**Detroitnerd** · April-22-13, 12:50 PM

Yup, the streets have always been car-only. It's because we need to have cars on the street unimpeded by bicycles, streetcars, pedestrians, etc. And walking or bike-riding in the street is a ghetto behavior that you'd never see decent citizens exhibit.

Right ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubsaFBUcTc

**DetroitPlanner** · April-22-13, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

If there is no sidewalk, then one can walk in the street legally on the left.

Wow what a brain fart.... everyone please refrain from driving while I am on the road! LOL

**cla1945** · April-22-13, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Can't find it online. Mind providing a link?

You're just itching for an argument aren't you?

Whether walking in the street is illegal or not, it's a stupid, idiotic thing to do when there are sidewalks to walk on. Especially the way people drive today, not paying attention to traffic signals, texting, talking, drunk...why would anyone choose to just walk in the street? Defiance is my answer...it's the "because I can" and "I don't follow rules" mentality.

**iheartthed** · April-22-13, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

what artds said. "highway" is a term of art. it applies. It is not legal to walk in the street when there is a sidewalk. I don't understand why you seem to think it is or should be.

So every person who parks their car on a street and then exits the vehicle on the driver's side is committing a civil infraction?

**p69rrh51** · April-22-13, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

So every person who parks their car on a street and then exits the vehicle on the driver's side is committing a civil infraction?

If I remember it may be a state law that you are supposed to exit on the curb side of the car. Maybe somebody has the info on that.

**EastsideAl** · April-22-13, 01:33 PM

I think a lot of people are simply afraid of walking on the sidewalk, too close to vacant houses, abandoned commercial buildings, weed choked lots, occupied houses and buildings of shady character, etc. Walking in the street can feel safer, with a wider view, and at least gives people an extra second or two to react to any potential trouble and a little more space to run. After a while it just becomes a habit.

Walking in the street is illegal in Detroit, however, as it is in pretty much every northern city with sidewalks, and I have heard of people getting ticketed for it.

**marshamusic** · April-22-13, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Yup, the streets have always been car-only. It's because we need to have cars on the street unimpeded by bicycles, streetcars, pedestrians, etc. And walking or bike-riding in the street is a ghetto behavior that you'd never see decent citizens exhibit.

Right ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubsaFBUcTc

Wow!! that was awesome! I watched it until the end! Wow! Trolleys, motor cars horses AND people in the street!

[[and just think, as the commenters said, 4 days before the quake, and most of them will be dead)

This was obviously before the advent of stop lights, cross walks, etc.

Have you been just waiting for the right thread in which to post this? LOL!

Funny, in SFO [[today) it seemed to me that there was a higher regard for pedestrian right of way, maybe it stems from these days...maybe the streets were regimented for cars only earlier here in Detroit [[no basis for this just speculatin').

But even so, with all the folks in this video in the streets - mostly crossing the street, without benefit of cross lights - this is not the same defiant, addled meandering that we've been talking about here.

anyway, great video!

**bailey** · April-22-13, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

So every person who parks their car on a street and then exits the vehicle on the driver's side is committing a civil infraction?

Instead of being ridiculous, why don't you make a point? You asked if it was illegal, apparently rhetorically... as it's fairly clear you didn't think it was. Turns out it is.

I don't get where this is a controversial thing. What is your objection?

**Detroitnerd** · April-22-13, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by marshamusic

Have you been just waiting for the right thread in which to post this? LOL!

Glad you liked it, Marsha. Maybe it isn't spot-on, but just trying to challenge some perceptions about the status quo and how what's "proper" today wasn't always so.

**Detroitnerd** · April-22-13, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't get where this is a controversial thing. What is your objection?

I think it sounds kind of weird to ask motorists today to scramble over an emergency brake, cup container, CD caddy, etc. in order to exit a parked car on the curb side.

**iheartthed** · April-22-13, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Instead of being ridiculous, why don't you make a point? You asked if it was illegal, apparently rhetorically... as it's fairly clear you didn't think it was. Turns out it is.

I don't get where this is a controversial thing. What is your objection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_for_vagueness

**bailey** · April-22-13, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I think it sounds kind of weird to ask motorists today to scramble over an emergency brake, cup container, CD caddy, etc. in order to exit a parked car on the curb side.

no one is saying that. but, please carry on pretending that is a legitimate reading of the statute.

**p69rrh51** · April-22-13, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I think it sounds kind of weird to ask motorists today to scramble over an emergency brake, cup container, CD caddy, etc. in order to exit a parked car on the curb side.

DN you are correct but when the laws were written we had huge automobiles with very large bench seats.

**bailey** · April-22-13, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_for_vagueness

oh. I get it.. you're doing a bit. have fun with that.

**Detroitnerd** · April-22-13, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

no one is saying that. but, please carry on pretending that is a legitimate reading of the statute.

I'm not pretending anything. I'm trying to understand what this means.

Thanks for being, like, a total dick, Bailey...

**iheartthed** · April-22-13, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

oh. I get it.. you're doing a bit. have fun with that.

Yeah, so you agree then, no?

**marshamusic** · April-22-13, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Glad you liked it, Marsha. Maybe it isn't spot-on, but just trying to challenge some perceptions about the status quo and how what's "proper" today wasn't always so.

Yeah, I got you.

...and the folks didn't even seem panicked at all, that they were almost getting hit by either horses or vehicles!