Survey: Camry more American than F-150

[digitalvision]

It's a flat world. It's here to stay. There is no turning back the clock on this. Drink a shot of whiskey and move on.

International companies are almost borderless - and the fact is that technology kills more manufacturing jobs than globalization. But that doesn't have a defined boogeyman that political leadership can polarize people behind.

In China, they're having more social problems because now robots are even replacing THEIR cheap labor. I'll have to dig up the statistic, but it's sorta mind-blowing how little globalization eliminates jobs compared to tech. It's a super majority of job elimination.

Another thing people forget is that if we close our markets to competition, then they have every right to close theirs, and our market isn't growing, it's stagnate comparatively [[and yes, I know, they're not really open in some countries, etc. and our leadership needs to make sure they become open).

The powers that be need to focus on making service jobs pay with the benefits that manufacturing once did, because except for specialty applications, it's gone.

Do I think that sucks? Yes. Do I buy Detroit/Michigan/American when I can, when the pricing is competitive? I sure do.

But, I'm a realist. The economy has changed, permanently.

I'd love to see foreign folks who come here and get a Masters or Doctorate degree get a Green Card to stay with their Diploma. Why? For example, 1/3rd of Silicon valley entrepreneurs are foreign-born. A huge number of people who are willing to take risks are the people who risked everything to be here because our country is so great, and frankly, what's happening is those bright, educated people who can't stay here are opening their businesses in India and China instead with that cheaper labor mainly because they weren't allowed to stay here, which is their preference. The amount of innovation we export from our colleges is astounding.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "folks here on this forum itself are blaming Toyota and Honda"

I put the blame squarely on lobbyists and politicians, erm.. our "government". Zero consideration for the American workers. Yeah, yeah, I know they hire a few people in the south. Big deal. When the big 3 are gone, they will be too. They aren't going to stay here and pay high wages so they can sell cars here. They'll close those plants and be gone, only their dealerships will remain. If the Big 3 had moved all their operations to Canada or Mexico with the beginnings of Nafta, it would be a different situation here now.

[Sstashmoo]

DV, Probably your worst post ever. I had no idea you were so misinformed.

[darwinism]

I'd love to see foreign folks who come here and get a Masters or Doctorate degree get a Green Card to stay with their Diploma. Why? For example, 1/3rd of Silicon valley entrepreneurs are foreign-born. A huge number of people who are willing to take risks are the people who risked everything to be here because our country is so great, and frankly, what's happening is those bright, educated people who can't stay here are opening their businesses in India and China instead with that cheaper labor mainly because they weren't allowed to stay here, which is their preference. The amount of innovation we export from our colleges is astounding.

I can bear witness to the above, because my job involves frequent travels to the West Coast, as well as to regions such as Austin, Texas and Raleigh, North Carolina. I would even attest to the fact that as high as 50% of truly hi-tech industries such as bio-engineering, enterprise software, semiconductors and etc. that employ thousands are companies founded by immigrants.

Heck, if you want to witness reality beyond sitting in your own living room, go visit the University of Michigan campus or Michigan State Univ. campus and talk directly with the engineering, business school and science departments faculty. Find out for yourself why aren't more of our "American" students as prominently successful as we want them to be.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Find out for yourself why aren't more of our "American" students as prominently successful as we want them to be."

Another clueless contributor. Minorities in this country have many advantages afforded to them not enjoyed by the rest of us. Loans, bid award preference, on and on.

I'm impressed you travel to other states. I deal with people all over the world and compete with the same. I can tell you we have a problem in this country and it is not reluctance to adhere to the "globalization" concept, rather the reality is our government and it's trade policies have the US people on the back burner when it comes to our economy.

This bit about there is no turning back is laughable. No such thing.

[ejames01]

It seems that Sstashmoo is just jealous of minorities.

[Maxine1958]

Darwinism, I agree about buying the best product available at the best price. But all too aften our media is to blame for downplaying the quality of our products [[read as automobiles) and hyping the options available on most of the imports.

I drive a Chrysler for a few reasons one of them being it was the best car for me at the time I was shopping for one. Price being part of my criteria.

Sstashmoo, I couldn't agree with you more on your point about the benefits afforded minorities and in some cases immigrants when it comes to business or education loans and grants. I heard a rumor that the reason nearly all the Quiznos are run by East Indians or Pakistanis is because they can get the best loans for the franchise.

Darwinism, the same goes for the UM campus reference you made. Granted many of those students are bright and commintted to their educations. But most of them are getting that education based on preferential grants or loans. Not an even playing field in my opinion.

Does my East Indian doctor or my Taiwanese dry cleaner charge me less? No they do not. But the East Indians in my field take a lower salary than I do. Perhaps their living expenses are not as high as mine. I do not have 4 roommates living in my two bedroom apartment. I do not share my car with those same 4 people. Although, I may be living like that at some point if things don't change.

I keep looking for the best shopping cart . . .

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "It seems that Sstashmoo is just jealous of minorities."

No, Sstashmoo get's pissed when he see's people bagging on the American people. What the original poster was trying to convey is that Americans are unmotivated and people from other countries have to come here to make things happen. Total nonsense. The term used was "immigrant" which classifies them as a minority. See how they twist things?

[Sstashmoo]

Maxine, Folks like you and I are becoming a minority. These community colleges have these kids brainwashed and heading down a dead-end street.

After bumping around this planet longer than most spewing the nonsense here, one of the things I've learned is life can educate us rather quickly.

[darwinism]

Quote: "folks here on this forum itself are blaming Toyota and Honda"

I put the blame squarely on lobbyists and politicians, erm.. our "government". Zero consideration for the American workers. Yeah, yeah, I know they hire a few people in the south. Big deal. When the big 3 are gone, they will be too. They aren't going to stay here and pay high wages so they can sell cars here. They'll close those plants and be gone, only their dealerships will remain. If the Big 3 had moved all their operations to Canada or Mexico with the beginnings of Nafta, it would be a different situation here now.

1) Why would politicians who depend on their constituents[[we, the people) to have their job as our representatives actually have 'zero' consideration for us, the American workers?

2) How are you going to solve this political problem, aside from casting your vote, or contributing to campaign funds? How are you going to make tangible changes through your actions?

Maxine, Folks like you and I are becoming a minority. These community colleges have these kids brainwashed and heading down a dead-end street.

After bumping around this planet longer than most spewing the nonsense here, one of the things I've learned is life can educate us rather quickly.

Are you blaming community colleges and universities as well, Sstashmoo?

[darwinism]

Darwinism, I agree about buying the best product available at the best price. But all too often our media is to blame for downplaying the quality of our products [[read as automobiles) and hyping the options available on most of the imports.

If we blame the media for downplaying the quality of our automotive products, this begs the question WHY. Why would our newspapers, TV, radio, magazines and so on say negative things about the Big-3 with absolutely no truth whatsoever?

Sstashmoo, I couldn't agree with you more on your point about the benefits afforded minorities and in some cases immigrants when it comes to business or education loans and grants. I heard a rumor that the reason nearly all the Quiznos are run by East Indians or Pakistanis is because they can get the best loans for the franchise.

East Indians and Pakistanis can get the best loans for Quizno franchises? That rumor can't be true. How can it possibly make any sense when most of them don't even have any established credit histories or substantial FICO scores?

It is really hilarious that certain individuals here on this forum could flow with rumors, unsubstantiated statements and etc., EVEN IF THEY DON'T MAKE SENSE. Sstashmoo never feel the need to provide any proof or evidence for what he/she says. mjs in other threads have always provided evidence and ready to back up his/her claims. DetroitYes should pay close attention to folks who like to spew false and blatantly wrong information ..... sometimes even borderline on defamation.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Sstashmoo never feel the need to provide any proof or evidence for what he/she says."

Why would I when most of what I talk about is just common knowledge? Immigrants getting preferential treatment needs no source to back it up. Talk to any college admissions department, talk to anyone involved in the awarding of government contracts. Many private companies have the same policy, which lends credence to Maxine's assertions about Quizno's.

[alsodave]

Quote: "Sstashmoo never feel the need to provide any proof or evidence for what he/she says."

Why would I when most of what I talk about is just common knowledge? Immigrants getting preferential treatment needs no source to back it up. Talk to any college admissions department...

Umm, no. But thanks for playing.

[darwinism]

Why would I when most of what I talk about is just common knowledge? Immigrants getting preferential treatment needs no source to back it up. Talk to any college admissions department, talk to anyone involved in the awarding of government contracts. Many private companies have the same policy, which lends credence to Maxine's assertions about Quizno's. Ford motor company gives minority based preference on the issuance of it's contracts. Try to get a vendor code from them, if you aren't a minority, forget it. I know of several companies around here that "pass-through" either old companies with a vendor code or minority based firms with their billing.

Common knowledge to you.

<> College admission departments - MSU, Oakland U, Notre Dame [[South Bend), Bowling Green State University: Check. What you said is NOT TRUE.

<> Government contracts - US Navy, MDOT, Salt Lake City Water Department, PennDOT: Check. What you said is NOT TRUE.

<> Private companies - Guardian Industries, Owens-Illinois, Microsoft, John Deere: Check. What you said is NOT TRUE.

[mjs]

Are you referring to immigrants or minorities? You flip back and forth like theres no tomorrow.

Immigrants getting preferential treatment needs no source to back it up. Talk to any college admissions department, talk to anyone involved in the awarding of government contracts. Many private companies have the same policy, which lends credence to Maxine's assertions about Quizno's. Ford motor company gives minority based preference on the issuance of it's contracts. Try to get a vendor code from them, if you aren't a minority, forget it. I know of several companies around here that "pass-through" either old companies with a vendor code or minority based firms with their billing.

Not that today's anti-foreigner logic doesn't echo of the anti-minority logic of the fifties, sixties, and seventies. They're going to steal our jobs and make all of us live like they do.

Is that what it is? "Changing'? And let me guess your theory is we just don't like change? Like I told a boss one time that accused me of this, I don't mind change as long as it's for the better. My protest to a worsening condition is not stubbornness to change, it's common sense.

Yes it's changing, not sure if you've noticed, it's not for the better. We're in a race to become a third world country.

[ejames01]

Aren't we ALL the American people? The other poster is right though. A lot of us ARE unmotivated.

Quote: "It seems that Sstashmoo is just jealous of minorities."

No, Sstashmoo get's pissed when he see's people bagging on the American people. What the original poster was trying to convey is that Americans are unmotivated and people from other countries have to come here to make things happen. Total nonsense. The term used was "immigrant" which classifies them as a minority. See how they twist things?

[Sstashmoo]

I'm surprised anyone would even want to debate this. Truly baffled.

Here is a good read on the subject and why it appears I "flip back and forth".

http://science.jrank.org/pages/7873/Minority.html

""Usually, a minority group is defined on the basis of a relatively permanent and unchanging status and on the basis of being different—often visibly—from the majority group. This definition includes minorities based on ascribed statuses such as race, ethnicity, and gender and other statuses that are difficult or impossible to change, such as sexual orientation and disability. It also includes groups with common identities that are deeply held and relatively unlikely to change, most commonly religious or linguistic groups.""

[mjs]

So, you say you are bashing minorities? I see nothing in your link regarding nationality.

[alsodave]

I'm surprised anyone would even want to debate this. Truly baffled.

Here is a good read on the subject and why it appears I "flip back and forth".

http://science.jrank.org/pages/7873/Minority.html

""Usually, a minority group is defined on the basis of a relatively permanent and unchanging status and on the basis of being different—often visibly—from the majority group. This definition includes minorities based on ascribed statuses such as race, ethnicity, and gender and other statuses that are difficult or impossible to change, such as sexual orientation and disability. It also includes groups with common identities that are deeply held and relatively unlikely to change, most commonly religious or linguistic groups.""

Immigrant or minority--same thing, by jingo!

[Sstashmoo]

Bashing minorities? No. Bashing policies that would enable someone to just "get here", and immediately have preference in many areas over people that have lived here all of their lives. I don't blame these people for taking advantage. No wonder so many want in. I'd want in too. Sucks to be on the short end of it though.

[darwinism]

Bashing minorities? No. Bashing policies that would enable someone to just "get here", and immediately have preference in many areas over people that have lived here all of their lives. I don't blame these people for taking advantage. No wonder so many want in. I'd want in too. Sucks to be on the short end of it though.

Now, Sstashmoo, you need to spell out the policies in a very, very detailed manner. As far as the financial institution perspective, there is no preference of giving out business loans or lines-of-credit to "immigrants who just got here" - In fact, many lending institutions do the opposite because they scrutinize loan applications from immigrants very carefully to be sure the funds aren't used to operate terrorist activities.

In reality, the short end is with the immigrants. Sstashmoo, it is very damaging to make yourself believe things that are untrue just to feel better psychologically. Yes, if you say it in your mind enough times, and if you spread the word to enough people, it certainly feels more plausible and becomes more 'realistic'. But the truth of the matter is that it doesn't make it a fact. Good try, though.

[Maxine1958]

My last post on this thread.

Sstashmoo it's becoming obvious to me, as you said, that you and I are in a shrinking minority on this subject. It's also become obvious to me that many of the other posters here have never experienced the issues I believe you and I have come face to face with too many times. We will never be able to convince them of something they cannot believe exists.

BTW the rumor I referred to about Quiznos, was something I overheard in a Quiznos between the owner/manager and a co-worker/employee who was thinking of opening their own franchise. The owner/manager told them they most likely would not get the franchise because corporate was pushing loans out to 'people like me not people like you'. The blond-haired/green-eyed clerk was shocked to hear such a thing in these 'modern' times. After that, I started paying closer attention to the staff at each Quiznos I came across. In MI, IL, WI, IN, all managed/owned by what appeared to me by looks and accents to be East Indian or Pakistani.

So please continue the spirited debate, I'm learning a lot. But I don't think I can add anything else to the discussion.

[Islandman]

Wow. That's all I got.

Thanks to the posters above that I have learned some things from. All I will say is that the major competition to succeed in life that any of us have is ourselves.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "the major competition to succeed in life that any of us have is ourselves. "

Islandman, that's the way it should be. Most of us are not subjected to, and have circumnavigated the unfair policies.

[alsodave]

Very glad to read this thread. I need to ask the owner of the Quizno's near work how he got the franchise, since by sight and sound he does not match the criteria to be a franchisee.

"Shrinking Minority"--a new term for the existing dominant culture?