Survey: Camry more American than F-150

**davewindsor** · July-06-09, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by runnerXT

oh man dude that a hoax email that circulated around.

straight from the horses mouth:
http://www.lexus.com/about/news/arti...0011113_1.html

correcting false information is not rooting for the home team? ummm ok.

I say citing the horses' mouth is about as biased as a Toyota driver trying to get people to think that adding a $20 fart can and a few stickers gives their 2 litre Toyota an additional 100hp. Try again, like getting the cite from the charity.

**Patrick** · July-06-09, 09:13 PM

I have said it before and I will say it again...once assembly becomes too expensive for Toyota and Honda, they will sure as hell pack their shit up and leave. From what I understand, more and more Toyota shareholders want to see a decrease in labor costs for Noth America. Toyota can accomplish this by either using contract help for $12 an hour or they can hire full time employees south of the border.

Even our flags are made in China. What a beautiful thing to the Friedman disciples.

**wash_man** · July-06-09, 09:15 PM

"Try again, like getting the cite from the charity."

http://www2.redcross.org/pressreleas...4_7180,00.html

**mjs** · July-06-09, 09:17 PM

Buy American, weren't you already discredited as really being simply buy Michigan name plate automobiles and the rest of America can take a leap? You even acknowledged that about the only time you care about buy American is when you go to buy your car because you are or were a Michigan government employee. You even said that purchases such as electronics are a joke in comparison to auto sales. Here's the facts from the 2008 Almanac:

2006 Personal Consumption Expenditures: $9225 Billion.
New Autos: $107 Billion.
Video and Audio Goods: $90 Billion.
Computers, peripherals, and software: $61 Billion.
Clothing and Shoes: $357 Billion.
Gasoline and Oil: $319 Billion.
Food for Off-site Consumption: $662 Billion.
Alcohol for Off-site Consumption: $101 Billion.
Foreign Travel by U.S. Residents: $109 Billion.

Where you get your electronics come from means more. Where your clothes come from mean more. Even your fuel consumption and where you vacation means more.

WHAT YOU WEAR WEARS DOWN AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP DRINKING LABATT'S!

Sounds annoying and idiotic as hell. Doesn't it?

**313WX** · July-06-09, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

""I'm still wondering who makes the TV's, DVD players, and cell phones they own........""

The only people that make them, there is no alternative. Another industry lost.

For television, there is ONE alternative left [[completely American-based).

http://www.curtismathes.com/index1.html

**davewindsor** · July-06-09, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by wash_man

"Try again, like getting the cite from the charity."

http://www2.redcross.org/pressreleas...4_7180,00.html

Whoop de do. The cite says they donated to California in 2007, not for 911. California's so anti-Big 3 that they are Toyota's biggest ally in not getting the boot from the US auto market like Chinese automakers. Toyota was founded in 1937. Their first cars entered the US in 1957 and it took them another 50 years to make a significant donation to California? In comparision to all the contributions the Ford Motor Company made to Detroit, Michigian and North Amercia for that matter, Toyota's contribution is like the size of an ant being compared to Mount Everest.

**Sstashmoo** · July-06-09, 09:34 PM

Looks like Mr Google [[mjs) made his way over...

This guy is always beating somebody over the head with a web address.

Anyone that can't see the damage from our unfair trade policies is truly delusional. It will not continue on forever like this. It Can't.

**wash_man** · July-06-09, 09:58 PM

"Whoop de do. The cite says they donated to California in 2007, not for 911"

The Red Cross Liberty Disaster Relief Fund was specifially for 9/11 [[proof in link)
http://www2.redcross.org/pubs/car04/libertyDRF04.pdf

Red Cross Liberty Disaster Relief Fund contributors:
http://www2.redcross.org/sponsors/corporatelist.html

And this from the first Red Cross press release I posted:

"During Hurricane Katrina, Toyota donated $2.6 million to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund."

Need more proof?

**Det_ard** · July-06-09, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Looks like Mr Google [[mjs) made his way over...

This guy is always beating somebody over the head with a web address.

Anyone that can't see the damage from our unfair trade policies is truly delusional. It will not continue on forever like this. It Can't.

Yeah! Damn those guys like mjs, always throwing their facts around like they're facts or something. Give me infantile outbursts and emotional half-truths any day. Doesn't Mr. smartypants mjs know that this country is great precisely because every dimwit's most recent neuron firing is as valid as a well-reasoned and supported argument?

**mjs** · July-06-09, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Looks like Mr Google [[mjs) made his way over...

This guy is always beating somebody over the head with a web address.

Thanks, Det_ard. I just try to keep the conversation honest.

Sstashmoo, I often do use Google, but as I stated, this is from the 2008 Almanac. I often know people are making stuff up because I read a book on it or read it in the news or saw it on PBS. However, seeing how its near impossible to get some to read a short link let alone research a topic, I wouldn't dare think I could change people's views by convincing them to read a whole book. That leaves me trying to refute urban legends by hoping some will actually skim a short link.

If you want to prove me wrong, I'd recommend the book I'm currently reading: "America and the World". Its commentary on the future of American foreign policy, but it involves both a former Democrat NSA and a former Republican NSA so I know the balance will anger some.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 12:02 AM

Quote: "Yeah! Damn those guys like mjs, always throwing their facts around"

He's not always right. What I said was meant to be a joke, sheesh lighten up..

**reddog289** · July-07-09, 12:19 AM

This is another "apples and oranges" fight.Purpleheart got on me once bout this. An American built Tundra or a Southeast Asian built Chevy. OK THEN. From what I read, hear and see. I would not buy Neither. You can have your Tundra with the rusty frame, and your "Chevy" with the engine that is gonna go and dosen't even get a second glance from me anyway.People in my city build F-150's, along with Focus's, Mustangs ETC. Not CAMRYS.But if they built Tundras, Prius's, and Camrys, Hey They are gonna spend money in my city.A worker building a "Chevy" in Southeast Asia ain't gonna spend diddly in Wayne Mi, or any where else round here for that matter.

**smogboy** · July-07-09, 01:32 AM

More of Toyota's money staying in America in the form of K-12 educational grants:

http://online.barrons.com/article/PR...09-905140.html

Buy American · July-07-09, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by mjs

Buy American, weren't you already discredited as really being simply buy Michigan name plate automobiles and the rest of America can take a leap? You even acknowledged that about the only time you care about buy American is when you go to buy your car because you are or were a Michigan government employee. You even said that purchases such as electronics are a joke in comparison to auto sales. Here's the facts from the 2008 Almanac:

2006 Personal Consumption Expenditures: $9225 Billion.
New Autos: $107 Billion.
Video and Audio Goods: $90 Billion.
Computers, peripherals, and software: $61 Billion.
Clothing and Shoes: $357 Billion.
Gasoline and Oil: $319 Billion.
Food for Off-site Consumption: $662 Billion.
Alcohol for Off-site Consumption: $101 Billion.
Foreign Travel by U.S. Residents: $109 Billion.

Where you get your electronics come from means more. Where your clothes come from mean more. Even your fuel consumption and where you vacation means more.

WHAT YOU WEAR WEARS DOWN AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP DRINKING LABATT'S!

Sounds annoying and idiotic as hell. Doesn't it?

You are annoying and an idiot. You can't see what's happened because of tunnel vision. I hope you are set financially and your home is paid for because this financial crisis isn't over.

**mjs** · July-07-09, 08:02 AM

Huh? I have tunnel vision because I acknowledge that the American economy is comprised of more than just the auto industry and that there's more to how a company effects our trade balance than where their executives build their outrageously priced homes?

**smogboy** · July-07-09, 08:37 AM

No mjs... you've just stated the obvious facts of what's going on now in the economy. And while I do agree with some of the things that Buy American says I also think that it's a little protectionistic and unrealistic in his views. Rather than pinning blame and demonizing Toyota [[and any other foreign manufacturer) or anyone else that disagrees with his POV, I'd much rather urge Americans to come up with a better product. Rather than circling the wagons and playing the victim here, what happened to that Yankee ingenuity of coming up with the next best thing? Let's admit it- that some foreign manufacturers have beaten us at our game [[televisions, cell phones, etc.) and we need to move on from there. Quit relying on outmoded business models that no longer work in a global business climate.

It's almost like watching Cromagnons say "oooo, don't breed with the homo sapiens because they're bad bad people". Guess what, evolution is happening and they're not going away. If we're to survive we need to adapt, be agile, innovate, evolve and be better. It's nothing we're not capable of doing. The mantra of Just Buy American is a stop gap measure at best in a rapidly changing environment.

**davewindsor** · July-07-09, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by smogboy

It's almost like watching Cromagnons say "oooo, don't breed with the homo sapiens because they're bad bad people". Guess what, evolution is happening and they're not going away. If we're to survive we need to adapt, be agile, innovate, evolve and be better. It's nothing we're not capable of doing. The mantra of Just Buy American is a stop gap measure at best in a rapidly changing environment.

Ford is a better product. Better engines. Quality is ranked as high as Toyota, if not better. They even look better. The pickups and Mustangs are built locally. Ford sales up 20% since April.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 09:38 AM

Quote: "rapidly changing environment."

Is that what it is? "Changing'? And let me guess your theory is we just don't like change? Like I told a boss one time that accused me of this, I don't mind change as long as it's for the better. My protest to a worsening condition is not stubbornness to change, it's common sense.

Yes it's changing, not sure if you've noticed, it's not for the better. We're in a race to become a third world country.

Believe the lies of "Globalization" and "Global economy" and watch what it gets you. Take a drive around, go into an industrial area and look at all the "For lease" signs. It's just the beginning. Those businesses and jobs are gone and they are not coming back. This is not a temporary condition.

Buy American · July-07-09, 10:54 AM

Sstashmoo, I don't know how old you are but you see things as they are. I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall since 2007 when I joined this forum regarding my position on purchasing American automobiles instead of foreign. Unfortunately, my children and their children, and children's children will end up paying for all this in the long run. People have been brain washed to believe the "perceived" notion that foreign is better and there doesn't seem to be much more to say to try to convince them that this is wrong...for this country. We have given most of America away and no one is protesting, no one is marching, no one is helping by trying to preserve what is ours.
I know that it is next to impossible to buy anything "MADE IN AMERICA", but at least by buying American automobiles, whatever profit there is stays in America. I wanted to purchase a USA T-shirt at Penneys the other day and saw it was made in Pakistan. Visiting Sleeping Bear Sand Dune National Park a few weeks ago, I found 4 new Prius' with U.S. Government license plates on them behind the Visitor Ranger Station in Empire. These were purchased by our government from Japan. They are in Michigan and around the entire country, in our parks, paid for by our taxes and obviously supported by our government. It's a losing battle. We are very close to becoming a third world country....God help us.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 11:59 AM

Buy, You're fighting the good fight and your words have an effect.

These folks with the attitude "we'll just innovate and come up with new things", the Chinese are banking on it. They are stealing our intellectual property at an alarming rate. Anything we develop here in the future will be subject to the same issue as all the products we have developed in the past. Costs to produce, as long is it cheaper to produce in Asia, that is where it will go. Along with the design rights. You folks don't really believe the Asians let something stupid like a patent or copyright get in the way? They have no understanding of the concept.

Also, what those that feel insulated from it all do not realize, as the abundance of available labor increases, the wages are decreasing and rapidly. They have a job that has nothing to with the automotive industry? Do they really think their boss is going to continue to pay them what they are making, when there is a guy out on the sidewalk that will take their job for one-fourth of that, and probably do a better job to boot? Unemployment tends to make one very passionate. They do understand "costs" don't they? They do understand in this scenario, unions will have zero bargaining power, and will be easily overpowered by the multitudes of the unemployed?

**mjs** · July-07-09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

We are very close to becoming a third world country.

By what measure? Gross domestic product, GDP per capita, purchasing power parity,energy consumption per capita, amount of households lacking drinkable water.

**EastsideAl** · July-07-09, 12:02 PM

"Visiting Sleeping Bear Sand Dune National Park a few weeks ago, I found 4 new Prius' with U.S. Government license plates on them behind the Visitor Ranger Station in Empire. These were purchased by our government from Japan. They are in Michigan and around the entire country, in our parks, paid for by our taxes and obviously supported by our government."

And if the big 3 could build a decent high-mileage hybrid or low to no emissions vehicle then maybe the government would buy those. But in the meantime I'm much happier that some segment of our government is actually trying to address the much larger questions of pollution and climate change than fulfilling some false ideal of "buying American" [[whatever the hell that means in today's world).

And if that also means that my money's going to organized and decently paid workers in Japan, or even to reasonably paid workers in the American south, rather than subsidizing profits from the exploitation of horrible working and environmental conditions in Mexico or Southeast Asia, well then all the better as far as I'm concerned. Of course to some people they're just more evil funny-looking strange-talking barely-human foreigners, but then xenophobia springs eternal.

Look, the American right and center badly wanted nearly unrestricted "free" trade and a global economy. And everyone here who voted for the Republicans, or even for free trader Democrats, is complicit in that movement. Profits were more important than people then, so why all the weeping now? Do you seriously think that, say, GM is going to move production back to Detroit from Mexico because of some strange sense of patriotism? No. The only reason they would do that voluntarily is if they could make more money that way. So I have no idea why the love here for companies that would happily abandon you. Unless it's out of some form of nostalgia for a time that has passed into history - by our own hands. The deed is done now folks, and there's no putting that genie back in that particular bottle.

**Islandman** · July-07-09, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Believe the lies of "Globalization" and "Global economy" and watch what it gets you. Take a drive around, go into an industrial area and look at all the "For lease" signs. It's just the beginning. Those businesses and jobs are gone and they are not coming back. This is not a temporary condition.

Globalization and global economy are not lies; these are concepts. These concepts are not a temporary condition, and are not going away. Our own capitalistic system encourages these concepts, unfortunately it does not differentiate on sides.

Adapt to the new rules in a global economy or lose.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 12:15 PM

Quote: "I'm much happier that some segment of our government is actually trying to address the much larger questions of pollution"

LOL, stick around, that will take care of itself here in the USA. I wish I had a pic of Detroits skyline back in the early 70's so we could compare it to now. It would be a good indication of what the loss of industry is doing. I remember vividly crossing the Rouge river I-75 bridge going to work every morning in the late 70's. In the summer time on a clear day, sometimes the RenCen was not visible.

People walking, riding bikes and mass transit, I think you'll find the air quality will be very acceptable. Like it is in most third world countries.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 12:20 PM

Quote: "Adapt to the new rules in a global economy or lose."

Said the fly to the spider.

Some people need a piano to fall on them it seems. Can you not see what is going on here in the US? Do you not realize it is going to get worse? Could I interest you in a bridge?