America's jobs are moving to the suburbs

[Shollin]

"Shollin" and "m b v" are trolls.

Save the anguish of responding, folks.

Of course. Anyone who says people left Detroit for things other than racism is a troll because every white baby is born with the racist gene.

[Eber Brock Ward]

You forgot the "business moving from Warren" thread. You've proven time and again that you are not capable or willing to enter into rational conversation. This is my last post to you in this thread.

God bless the day there is an "ignore" feature here.

[Shollin]

You forgot the "business moving from Warren" thread. You've proven time and again that you are not capable or willing to enter into rational conversation. This is my last post to you in this thread.

God bless the day there is an "ignore" feature here.

Why does my association with the city of Warren, a city I've only lived about 3 months, gets brought up in every thread now? Basically anyone who doesn't agree with you that all white people who chose not to live in Detroit are racist and that shuffling jobs around will somehow help the suburbs who lost the jobs when no new jobs were created are trolls. I gave rational explinations on whites left the city.

[ghettopalmetto]

The reason jobs are still moving to the suburbs has remained unchanged since World War II. States--with a lot of cash from the federal government--are still building highways and freeways in undeveloped suburban areas [[while potholes in the inner cities go unchecked). Every time a Walmart or other business shows up to pave a cornfield or cotton field, local governments are extorted to build new water and sewer lines. Hell, in some cases [[like in South Carolina), the state will pay for the construction of your new building AND give you a tax break if you "promise" to bring jobs. There's only so much infrastructure money to go around.

[Islandman]

There is a block list, EBW. It works quite well unless a user is quoted.

[Shollin]

The reason jobs are still moving to the suburbs has remained unchanged since World War II. States--with a lot of cash from the federal government--are still building highways and freeways in undeveloped suburban areas [[while potholes in the inner cities go unchecked). Every time a Walmart or other business shows up to pave a cornfield or cotton field, local governments are extorted to build new water and sewer lines. Hell, in some cases [[like in South Carolina), the state will pay for the construction of your new building AND give you a tax break if you "promise" to bring jobs. There's only so much infrastructure money to go around.

You should drive on Long Lake in Troy if you think potholes don't exist in the suburbs. Surely you're also aware of all the subsidies given to businesses to move to Detroit? No company locates anywhere without some sort of tax break.

[Bham1982]

The reason jobs are still moving to the suburbs has remained unchanged since World War II. States--with a lot of cash from the federal government--are still building highways and freeways in undeveloped suburban areas [[while potholes in the inner cities go unchecked).

I see the exact opposite occurring. I see 400k homes being built by the hundreds on dirt roads, with little infrastructure, while existing homes in established areas with very expensive infrastructure go begging. It certainly seems that the homes come first, and then the road pavings. Go out to Lyon Township, Oakland Township, and the like, and most of the arterials are still dirt roads, yet 400k homes are going up like wildfire. And the roads won't be paved anytime soon, because only the county paves township roads, and the annual county paving budget is tiny [[basically enough for one road annually).

[Shollin]

I see the exact opposite occurring. I see 400k homes being built by the hundreds on dirt roads, with little infrastructure, while existing homes in established areas with very expensive infrastructure go begging. It certainly seems that the homes come first, and then the road pavings. Go out to Lyon Township, Oakland Township, and the like, and most of the arterials are still dirt roads, yet 400k homes are going up like wildfire. And the roads won't be paved anytime soon, because only the county paves township roads, and the annual county paving budget is tiny [[basically enough for one road annually).

That's what happened in Warren and Sterling Heights. When they brought in city water, you had to pay to hook up. There's still people on my relatives street in Sterling Heights who still have a well. They had to pay special assesments each time when the road was paved and when they put in a sidewalk. I love how this forum acts like all that infrastructure was there and people just moved in and leached off of poor Detroit.

[ghettopalmetto]

I see the exact opposite occurring. I see 400k homes being built by the hundreds on dirt roads, with little infrastructure, while existing homes in established areas with very expensive infrastructure go begging. It certainly seems that the homes come first, and then the road pavings. Go out to Lyon Township, Oakland Township, and the like, and most of the arterials are still dirt roads, yet 400k homes are going up like wildfire. And the roads won't be paved anytime soon, because only the county paves township roads, and the annual county paving budget is tiny [[basically enough for one road annually).

Do you think that even dirt roads are free? And how does one get to these dirt-road areas--by helicopter? Certainly there is water and electrical service to these properties located along dirt roads, as well as police and fire protection. And of course there will need to be schools, which is one of the biggest expenditures of state and local governments. All of these things cost money.

But you said it yourself--not even the county can afford to keep up with the infrastructure needs. That should be a red flag, but it isn't. The localities think they're just going to sit on their asses and watch the property tax dollars roll in. There is a complete disconnect between local, county, state, and federal infrastructure policy and spending.

[Shollin]

Do you think that even dirt roads are free? And how does one get to these dirt-road areas--by helicopter? Certainly there is water and electrical service to these properties located along dirt roads, as well as police and fire protection. And of course there will need to be schools, which is one of the biggest expenditures of state and local governments. All of these things cost money.

But you said it yourself--not even the county can afford to keep up with the infrastructure needs. That should be a red flag, but it isn't. The localities think they're just going to sit on their asses and watch the property tax dollars roll in. There is a complete disconnect between local, county, state, and federal infrastructure policy and spending.

Two lane roads that were carriage trails to other villages and farms that were in the area. No there wasn't water service. People had wells drilled. When the water and sewer came later they paid to hook up. You act that overnight these cities had all this infrastructure. It was built up over time as the population increased and more people were added to the tax rolls.

[Shollin]

Here's how people got to the suburbs. This is Van Dyke circa 1931 in what is now Center line. Next you'll tell me white flight started in the 20's.

[Bham1982]

Do you think that even dirt roads are free? And how does one get to these dirt-road areas--by helicopter? Certainly there is water and electrical service to these properties located along dirt roads, as well as police and fire protection. And of course there will need to be schools, which is one of the biggest expenditures of state and local governments. All of these things cost money.

Most of these areas have very limited county police, and volunteer fire departments. School construction is mostly local [[township money). I don't see why congested dirt roads lined with 400k homes are "wasteful" while giant, empty arterials in Detroit are "efficient". If anything, at least based on demand, we should be returning streets in Detroit to gravel, and paving out in Oakland Twp. That's where people want to live, and they're paying much higher home prices than in most established areas.

[Gistok]

The baby boom caused people to buy larger houses with yards. It was clearly mentioned. The inner ring suburbs weren't nearly developed in the 40's. You know what Warren's population was in 1950? 727. Whites did live in the outer rim of Detroit. I lived in NE Detroit and it wasn't until the 80's until there was a sizeable black population. White flight started from the inside out. Many neighborhoods along 8 Mile stayed white into the 90's.

You have to remember that the 727 population count for Warren in 1950 was ONLY the historic village of Warren near 13 mile and Mound. Then entire area that is today known as Warren included unincorporated areas that numbered several thousand in total... granted no where near as much as in 1960.

The population of Macomb County in 1940 had exceeded 100,000. Much of this was along the main artery of Gratiot... where there are many older homes in Eastpointe, Roseville, and Mount Clemens. Even many areas of St. Clair Shores [[Erin Twp) were already built up near Jefferson by the 1930s.

Oakland County had over 200,000 people in 1940... again mostly along the main artery of Woodward... from Ferndale on up to Pontiac that contain many older homes.

[Shollin]

Warren Township had a population of 42k in 1950. Warren peaked in 1970 with a population of 179k. Those areas along Gratiot and Woodward were already established before white flight.

[ghettopalmetto]

Warren Township had a population of 42k in 1950. Warren peaked in 1970 with a population of 179k. Those areas along Gratiot and Woodward were already established before white flight.

That's because people wanted to live in Warren in 1970. The trend is that people want to keep moving outward until everything to Traverse City and Alpena becomes pavement.

People want $400,000 houses with dirt roads and minimal services.

[Shollin]

That's because people wanted to live in Warren in 1970. The trend is that people want to keep moving outward until everything to Traverse City and Alpena becomes pavement.

People want $400,000 houses with dirt roads and minimal services.

Yes people wanted to live there. That is why they lived there. My family used to own a weekend home in Roscommon, a town of about 800-1000 people and they had paved streets, city water, and natural gas. White flight has moved 200 miles north of Detroit. The world should just end at 8 Mile. You go past 8 Mile and you should fall off a cliff into an abyss.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yes people wanted to live there. That is why they lived there. My family used to own a weekend home in Roscommon, a town of about 800-1000 people and they had paved streets, city water, and natural gas. White flight has moved 200 miles north of Detroit. The world should just end at 8 Mile. You go past 8 Mile and you should fall off a cliff into an abyss.

Endless, unchecked urban sprawl is the result of personal whims and desires. It's fashionable. There are no underlying economics whatsoever. People just want it. Because. So we must allow Pulte and Ryan Homes to pave over the entire state with cheap plastic houses. And it won't cost the taxpayers anything. That's what people want. People want growth. Even if the population isn't actually growing, and hasn't grown in 40 years. Give the poor wealthy people what they want.

[chicagoforlife]

This also just came out today:

A new study finds that metro Detroit is the nation’s most sprawled job market, with 77% of jobs located at least 10 miles from the downtown core.

The Brookings Institution released its new report today showing that only 7.3% of metro Detroit’s roughly 1.4 million jobs lie within three miles of the city’s central business district. Another 15% lie within a 3-to-10-mile band from the downtown core.

The 77% of jobs that are found from 10 miles to 35 miles out — the highest percentage of decentralized jobs in any of the nation’s top 100 metro areas.

The earlier study found that only 22% of jobs in metro Detroit were within even a 90-minute ride on public transit. That ranked metro Detroit 73rd out of 100 top metro areas in the ability of residents to get to work via bus or light rail.



http://www.freep.com/article/2013041...gs-Institution

Wow that is amazing. No wonder downtown Detroit and Detroit city proper in general are struggling. Almost 80% of the jobs are nowheres near downtown and that is simply unbelievable.

[Bham1982]

Wow that is amazing. No wonder downtown Detroit and Detroit city proper in general are struggling. Almost 80% of the jobs are nowheres near downtown and that is simply unbelievable.

And yet Chicago has the second worst job sprawl in the nation, according to the study. And some of the weakest regional economies in the U.S. have some of the smallest job sprawl.

[Shollin]

Wow that is amazing. No wonder downtown Detroit and Detroit city proper in general are struggling. Almost 80% of the jobs are nowheres near downtown and that is simply unbelievable.

Detroit is different as downtown was never the center of the economy. People worked in industrial centers scattered about the city. GM's headquarters wasn't even downtown. When the factories were looking to expand there was no room in Detroit. Property was cheap and readily available outside the city limits. There was no possible place to build the GM tech center in Detroit. The entire city of Hamtramck could almost fit on the tech center property.

[ghettopalmetto]

Detroit is different as downtown was never the center of the economy. People worked in industrial centers scattered about the city. GM's headquarters wasn't even downtown.

That's right. All those Art Deco skyscrapers, including the ones that have been demolished, were merely for show.

[Shollin]

That's right. All those Art Deco skyscrapers, including the ones that have been demolished, were merely for show.

That's right. All those factories that housed thousands of imaginary employees including the ones that have been demolished, were merely for show.

[ghettopalmetto]

That's right. All those factories that housed thousands of imaginary employees including the ones that have been demolished, were merely for show.

Wow, that's interesting. I didn't know that. It's a good thing, too, that nobody worked in those plants. Otherwise, there would have been a lot of jobs lost when they closed down. Not to mention that those factories were dozens of miles from where people want to live.

It's almost like, what were people thinking in the 1920s, right?

[Shollin]

I don't even know what ghettopalmetto is bitching about anymore

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't even know what ghettopalmetto is bitching about anymore

I'm not bitching. I'm totally agreeing with you. Jobs moving to the suburbs? That's totally a good thing. Give the people what they want​. Especially since it doesn't cost the taxpayers anything. In fact, with all those new tax dollars, job sprawl pays for itself!