Detroit gets some love from a travel guru.

[Gistok]

detroit12 you are correct many ignorant metro Detroit area residents loathe the CoD. On the other hand please do not lump all of us suburbanites into that general category. This suburbanite along with most of his friends do not and never have loathed the city. We see the problems and the city's faults but also see what the city has to offer. Your generalizations are just as ignorant as those who bash Detroit.

P69rrh51, I am sorry for the anguish that you must have gone thru... and yet you refuse to let yourself give in to hate afterwards... you deserve a medal...

[old guy]

Kids from good colleges want to mingle with other smart good looking kids

Jeez, seems a bit simplistic. I didn't realize that being good looking was a prerequisite for attending a good college. That whole statement makes me a little sick to my stomach.

[m b v]

More of the same Chicago-boosterism. "Chicago isn't in the Midwest, I swear!".

Of course, you conveniently forget suburban UofM for Detroit, while including suburban Northwestern for Chicago, label little-known DePaul as "elite", and try to group Chicago with [[very different) NYC & SF while trying to separate it from [[very similar) Detroit.

Chicago and Detroit are very similar. Chicago and San Francisco are very different. No rationalizing of DePaul = Stanford, or Northwestern [[in the suburbs) or Chicago [[in the South Side hood) as magically impacting downtown will change this fact. There's a reason Chicagoland is so cheap and the Bay Area is so expensive.

You're an uninformed loudmouth. Northwestern's business, medical and law school are downtown [[and Evanston is closer to Chicago than OU is to Detroit). U of Chi is 10 minutes south of the Loop, and the MBA program is in River North. Depaul trumps any school in or within 30 minutes of Detroit. Ann Arbor is 45 miles away from Detroit, UM and A2 want nothing to do with the city or Wayne County, and most UM-AA students want nothing to do with the entire state of Michigan after graduating. I'll give you Michigan - Dearborn if that makes you feel better - which is a commuter college that lets anyone with a pulse in, just like UD, OU and WSU [[who is about to lose it's medical school accredidation).

Bottom line: Detroit's universities have zero prestige. Other booming major cities with 500k+ populations tend to have at least a couple.

[illwill]

What I personally think is Detroit is NOW cool... but from a far. I notice the new way a lot of people represent themselves is to say "I'm from Metro-Detroit." This allows one the opportunity to leave the door open. If someone thinks Detroit is cool, then you can claim the city. If people look at you like you're a loser, you can disassociate yourself from the city.

I think people are more positive about Detroit these days but unfortunately, STILL from a distance. People promoting Detroit from the burbs and other states. I remember watching the Tiger's playing at Wrigley Field... that was a true wake up call for a lot of people. We need to get people to cheer for Detroit from inside the city.

[m b v]

Jeez, seems a bit simplistic. I didn't realize that being good looking was a prerequisite for attending a good college. That whole statement makes me a little sick to my stomach.

Bright young intellects with good paying jobs tend to be attractive - that's reality. And it's foolish to think those types want to spend their 20s mingling with plebes surrounded by crime and decay. And it's laughable to expect those grads to come help Detroit out of the mess when they can actually ENJOY their life in "turn key" cities [that already offer everything what they want].

[illwill]

What I personally think is Detroit is NOW cool... but from a far. I notice the new way a lot of people represent themselves is to say "I'm from Metro-Detroit." This allows one the opportunity to leave the door open. If someone thinks Detroit is cool, then you can claim the city. If people look at you like you're a loser, you can disassociate yourself from the city.

I think people are more positive about Detroit these days but unfortunately, STILL from a distance. People promoting Detroit from the burbs and other states. I remember watching the Tiger's playing at Wrigley Field... that was a true wake up call for a lot of people. It was also a wake up call for the city of Chicago because they were embarrassed and pissed that the crowd was made up of all Michigander's that were taking over their town. The Cubs players even expressed how disappointed they were.

We need to get people to cheer for Detroit from inside the city.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Bright young intellects with good paying jobs tend to be attractive - that's reality. And it's foolish to think those types want to spend their 20s mingling with plebes surrounded by crime and decay. And it's laughable to expect those grads to come help Detroit out of the mess when they can actually ENJOY their life in "turn key" cities [that already offer everything what they want].

Before even the boom of the last few years:

Recent census figures show that Detroit’s overall population shrank by 25 percent in the last 10 years. But another figure tells a different and more intriguing story: During the same time period, downtown Detroit experienced a 59 percent increase in the number of college-educated residents under the age of 35, nearly 30 percent more than two-thirds of the nation’s 51 largest cities.

[[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/03/fa...anted=all&_r=0)

Oops troll, you have been hoist on your own petard.

[downtownguy]

Bright young intellects with good paying jobs tend to be attractive - that's reality.

What an absurd comment. You probably believe in a master race, too.

[m b v]

Before even the boom of the last few years:



[[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/03/fa...anted=all&_r=0)

Oops troll, you have been hoist on your own petard.

CURRENTLY Detroit is seen as a LAST RESORT for graduates at all Michigan universities. Nationwide it is avoided like the plague. The reality is that grads with NO OTHER OPTIONS find jobs in Detroit. I seriously wish the city the best of luck on reversing that snowball -- but how? I really have no idea. In the next ten years I think the best you can hope for is to continue targeting the OU, WSU, UD, WMU, CMU and some State grads. But a long-term failure to attract the BEST & BRIGHTEST [[top of class at State or UM or other top tier universities around the country) will never bring Detroit "back," or anywhere near any of the other destination cities in the US.

[DetroitPlanner]

m b v, I seriously think you are way out on a limb. There is plenty of opportunity here, we are far from being the lowest paid area, we have relatively low housing prices, and many people who go to these schools have family in the region. Why on earth would it be the LAST RESORT? For these reasons alone, I would think it would be a serious contender for anyone who is not chasing the trendy place to live.

[Eber Brock Ward]

CURRENTLY Detroit is seen as a LAST RESORT for graduates at all Michigan universities. Nationwide it is avoided like the plague. The reality is that grads with NO OTHER OPTIONS find jobs in Detroit. I seriously wish the city the best of luck on reversing that snowball -- but how? I really have no idea. In the next ten years I think the best you can hope for is to continue targeting the OU, WSU, UD, WMU, CMU and some State grads. But a long-term failure to attract the BEST & BRIGHTEST [[top of class at State or UM or other top tier universities around the country) will never bring Detroit "back," or anywhere near any of the other destination cities in the US.

GTFO.

I went to a top 25 undergrad and a top 10 law school. Similar for my wife, and we relocated from Chicago. Yesterday, I had a long meeting with someone that was Columbia ugrad/Northwestern Law that lives here, moved from NYC. Same with my wife with a Dartmouth/Harvard combo. A good majority of our friends here in the city are Michigan and other top-flight institution grads as well. Naturally, this isn't meant to demean the tons of talented people that went to other schools, but it's to point out that the uber-educated cohort within the Boulevard has gone from a few folks to more than enough for a saturated professional and social life.

So you're either being obstinate or you really have no clue what's going on right under your nose. In any case, I don't care to continue engaging you.

[DetroitPlanner]

You're an uninformed loudmouth. Northwestern's business, medical and law school are downtown [[and Evanston is closer to Chicago than OU is to Detroit). U of Chi is 10 minutes south of the Loop, and the MBA program is in River North. Depaul trumps any school in or within 30 minutes of Detroit. Ann Arbor is 45 miles away from Detroit, UM and A2 want nothing to do with the city or Wayne County, and most UM-AA students want nothing to do with the entire state of Michigan after graduating. I'll give you Michigan - Dearborn if that makes you feel better - which is just a crappy commuter college that lets anyone with a pulse in, just like UD, OU and WSU [[who is about to lose it's medical school accredidation).

Bottom line: Detroit's universities have zero prestige. Other booming major cities with 500k+ populations tend to have at least a couple.

Seriously, why do you even bother posting here? I have never read such vitrol or self hate in my life. Why do you feel it is your job to attack the educational institutions that many of us have attended and respected? Don't you have better things to do? Why is your life so miserable? Do you post here because you have so much free time that people run away from you every time you open your piehole?

Can we get this guy banned?

[m b v]

GTFO.

I went to a top 25 undergrad and a top 10 law school. Similar for my wife, and we relocated from Chicago. Yesterday, I had a long meeting with someone that was Columbia ugrad/Northwestern Law that lives here, moved from NYC. Same with my wife with a Dartmouth/Harvard combo. A good majority of our friends here in the city are Michigan and other top-flight institution grads as well. Naturally, this isn't meant to demean the tons of talented people that went to other schools, but it's to point out that the uber-educated cohort within the Boulevard has gone from a few folks to more than enough for a saturated professional and social life.

So you're either being obstinate or you really have no clue what's going on right under your nose. In any case, I don't care to continue engaging you.

You're too old to know how 18-25 yos view Detroit. I am sure you realize it's not the norm for a couple with your education to call a flyover home. That said, the trend to matriculate back to Michigan and be closer to family when you want to start a family has always been on the menu. But the state/Detroit can't cross their fingers praying for 30 yo couples to return after 5-8 years of spending all of their disposable income in Chicago, New York or Washington. Especially when the economy and population decline don't have the same opportunities that were available to young couples that may want to come back home. Michigan desperately needs to retain and bring in the top 22-25 yo graduates that currently want nothing to do with the area.

[m b v]

Seriously, why do you even bother posting here? I have never read such vitrol or self hate in my life. Why do you feel it is your job to attack the educational institutions that many of us have attended and respected? Don't you have better things to do? Why is your life so miserable? Do you post here because you have so much free time that people run away from you every time you open your piehole?

Can we get this guy banned?

I'm not attacking any institution - I simply stated that the cities grads flood to have top tier universities that serve as one of many anchors bringing talented people in. Detroit does not have any top tier universities. That's a fact that you can use any university rankings to confirm.

[p69rrh51]

You're too old to know how 18-25 yos view Detroit. I am sure you realize it's not the norm for a couple with your education to call a flyover home. That said, the trend to matriculate back to Michigan and be closer to family when you want to start a family has always been on the menu. But the state/Detroit can't cross their fingers praying for 30 yo couples to return after spending 5-8 years spending all of their disposable income in Chicago, New York or Washington. They need to retain and bring in the top 22-25 yo graduates that currently want nothing to do with the area.

m b v you are very good at stating the obvious. We all have known about this for decades. The metro area has tended to be unfriendly towards recent college grads. On the other hand there is a tendency to want to break away from home for many people and places like the cities mentioned are great places for young people to start out in life after school is over.
The funny thing about this area, almost every classmate of mine that said they never would come back has returned. This is a great place to raise a family and not only have I seen this with my friends but its also happened with their children. I am also now seeing this happen with the grandchildren of some of my older friends. Personally I would rather see financially secure families with more disposable income spend their money in this area as opposed to fickle 20 somethings.

[jt1]

I wish I wasn't so ugly so I could make enough money to move out of Michigan.

[m b v]

I wish I wasn't so ugly so I could make enough money to move out of Michigan.

And I wish some people wouldn't take things so hyper-literally. The reality is that currently Detroit can't attract the best & brightest grads -- even if you doubled the salary offers they get from a coast or Chicago or DC. You can sit here and be in denial and talk about how great the city is, but the fact is it hasn't been a world class city in 50 years and it is currently the laughing stock of all major US cities. Detroit will never again be in Chicago's league, stop kidding yourselves.

[old guy]

And I wish some people wouldn't take things so hyper-literally. The reality is that currently Detroit can't attract the best & brightest grads -- even if you doubled the salary offers they get from a coast or Chicago or DC. You can sit here and be in denial and talk about how great the city is, but the fact is it hasn't been a world class city in 50 years and it is currently the laughing stock of all major US cities. Detroit will never again be in Chicago's league, stop kidding yourselves.

What's your point? You've regurgitated the same facts over and over again.

[p69rrh51]

And I wish some people wouldn't take things so hyper-literally. The reality is that currently Detroit can't attract the best & brightest grads -- even if you doubled the salary offers they get from a coastal city or Chicago or DC. You guys can sit here and be in denial and talk about how great the city is, but the fact is it hasn't been a world class city in 50 years and it is currently the laughing stock of all major US cities. Detroit will never again be in Chicago's league, let's stop kidding ourselves.

m b v its not about how much we can pay its about how many jobs. The large companies here do get the pick of the litter but there are only so many post college entry level jobs available here. There are more entry level jobs available in every other city you have cited. While I would like to attract more younger grads here its not necessary! The metro area gets along quite well without them.
As for laughing stock in the past year or so everyone I chat with from out of town has gone from why do you live there to I hear good things maybe its time to check out what is going on here. We know its not a city for everyone and we do not delude ourselves about whether we are great or not.
As for comparisons nobody on here would say/has been saying Detroit is a "better" city than Chicago. We are having a good chuckle at Chicago's expense from the article. Although you are definitely fitting into the description of a Chicagoan the author of the article was writing about.
Last the one area I can speak to while Chicago has outstanding architecture and also quite a bit of junk. Outside of FLW and few other good architects our RESIDENTIAL architecture metro wide is far superior to Chicago's and if you do not believe me come visit and I will show you.

[Bham1982]

You're an uninformed loudmouth. Northwestern's business, medical and law school are downtown [[and Evanston is closer to Chicago than OU is to Detroit).

Uh, no.

The Kellogg School is based in Evanston, not Chicago. Its main building is right on Sheridan Road in Evanston.

Yes, Northwestern has a few hundred medical and law students downtown, which amounts to around 5% of their overall enrollment. Are you claiming that we should ignore the 95% of Northwestern students that aren't attending classes in Chicago city limits?

U of Chi is 10 minutes south of the Loop, and the MBA program is in River North.

Again, no. Oh, boy...

The University of Chicago is 8 miles south of downtown. It's ten minutes by rocket-ship, maybe. Minimum 30 minutes by car or public transit. This is direct from their website.

And wrong again about the B-School. Chicago GSB is on the South Side, on the main UofC campus, not downtown.

Depaul trumps any school in or within 30 minutes of Detroit.

I'm not sure if this is true, but so what? Wash U in St. Louis trumps any school within 30 minutes of downtown Chicago, so St. Louis is "better' than Chicago, right? Case Western in Cleveland or Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh are better than any school within a few miles of downtown Chicago.

Ann Arbor is 45 miles away from Detroit, UM and A2 want nothing to do with the city or Wayne County, and most UM-AA students want nothing to do with the entire state of Michigan after graduating.

And yet over 40% of U-M grads live in the state of Michigan. They must be pretty stupid to live in a state that they want "nothing to do with". They must really hate Illinois, which isn't even the #2 state for U-M grads. That would be California.

Bottom line: Detroit's universities have zero prestige. Other booming major cities with 500k+ populations tend to have at least a couple.

Except that prestigious universities, in terms of location, aren't heavily correlated with regional population booms.

The greatest concentration of prestigious universities, by far, is in the Northeast, which has slow growth, and the sparsest concentration of prestigious universities is in the Sunbelt, which has rapid growth. There goes that theory.

There are far more prestigious schools in Massachusetts and Maine than in Texas and Arizona. Guess which states have the fastest growth?

[Eber Brock Ward]

The vast majority of the programs offered at the downtown b-school campuses of NU and UofC are for part-time, night, or executive MBA students. I think NU's law school is about 240 people. Dunno about NU's med school enrollment, and they nixed their dental school awhile ago, which was down there as well.

[Bham1982]

The vast majority of the programs offered at the downtown b-school campuses of NU and UofC are for part-time, night, or executive MBA students.

Yep. The full time programs are based in Evanston and Hyde Park, respectively. They have some downtown classes, but the MBA programs are both based on the main campuses.

[m b v]

Yep. The full time programs are based in Evanston and Hyde Park, respectively. They have some downtown classes, but the MBA programs are both based on the main campuses.

Sounds like you've had a really productive afternoon... on Google maps and browsing university websites. What are you even arguing about? Evanston and Hyde Park are just as close to the loop as OU-Rochester and UM-Dearborn are to downtown Detroit, which I included as "Detroit" universities.

Detroit can't even stabilize ONE neighborhood, the city of Chicago has north of a dozen that college grads would be happy to call home. Any comparison between the two cities - outside of political corruption - is pure delusional.

[DetroitPlanner]

m b v, just what does all of this have to do with Detroit drawing tourists? Are you saying that those that go to the Eastern Market, the DIA care what you think about colleges or where people move to? Seriously?

[illwill]

You're too old to know how 18-25 yos view Detroit. I am sure you realize it's not the norm for a couple with your education to call a flyover home. That said, the trend to matriculate back to Michigan and be closer to family when you want to start a family has always been on the menu. But the state/Detroit can't cross their fingers praying for 30 yo couples to return after 5-8 years of spending all of their disposable income in Chicago, New York or Washington. Especially when the economy and population decline don't have the same opportunities that were available to young couples that may want to come back home. Michigan desperately needs to retain and bring in the top 22-25 yo graduates that currently want nothing to do with the area.

I totally disagree. The S.E. Michigander's who have left are the very people that Snyder/Detroit/Michigan should be trying to cort back to the region. The one's who have left and experienced life in other cities, states and countries and now prefer to live in a place that's not so fast-pace or expensive but still offers the very best of culture that you'll find in any other big city around the country. These people are not "all" hyped-up about the latest "this or that." They've already lived that life. Not to mention the one's who have families in the Detroit area and want their kids to be near cousins, uncles, aunts and grandparents. I personally think we're targeting the wrong people. College grads, no matter where they live usually prefer to experience life away from home at some point. Some decide to stay away once they've met a spouse and many will return to their homes where they came from. We just have to make Detroit a realistic alternative for them to consider.

As Detroit continues to grow and strengthen, we'll be a serious option for people moving back to the region. It might be another 20 years but we will be. Although Chicago and New York have more Michigan Alum than any other cities in the country, S.E. Michigan still has more Michigan grads residing here than any other state. I think Detroit [[Snyder) should stop trying to prevent college grads from leaving. It's not going to happen. He should pitch Detroit and the region to young families or empty nesters looking to settle down.