IS the current "revitalization" of Greater Downtown real?

**Honky Tonk** · April-01-13, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I don't believe there is any reimbursement. And mostly the companies doing this are non-profits, so they don't even get a tax deduction. Presumably they perceive it as a way to strengthen their neighborhood, which makes it easier for them to attract customers and employees. They might also think it improves their image as institutions making a positive contribution to the city. As was pointed out earlier, there were some additional contributions from other entities.

Perhaps you remember the program to attract young renters to Grosse Pointe Park a year or two ago? Privately funded, just to try to keep the neighborhood strong.

http://grossepointe.patch.com/articl...s-for-students

Yes I do, and see "kids" in scrubs all over GPP. But then again, you're talking about Beaumont recruiting medical staff, not a company that is processing loans and looking for staff to do daily computer tasks.

**daveyarm** · April-01-13, 04:24 PM

"Most of the new people in the area around the CBD are only there because of tax incentives, meaning once those dry up, who knows what is going to happen once they have to pay a higher premium to live or own there."

The person who wrote this apparently doesn't understand the nature of Downtown living. Very, very few people purchase in the CBD area – – – it is largely rentals. True, Blue Cross, Compuware, Quicken and others have offered cash bonuses for moving downtown, but tax incentives in the CBD area are rare.

**Richard** · April-01-13, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Yes I do, and see "kids" in scrubs all over GPP. But then again, you're talking about Beaumont recruiting medical staff, not a company that is processing loans and looking for staff to do daily computer tasks.

You really have to look at the bigger picture, you had downtown , nobody would or could invest into it.

So you hired him to handle it with the 200 million sign on bonus, every building he buys is another step,buy it cheap increase demand and you have a payoff or increased value to leverage for a bigger project .

Yes it could all go south 10 years from now if everything is leveraged and the market dives and notes come due,but that never happens in real estate.

So what are you getting for your money? Advancing forward, others in the funding world may not see the city as riskier then sleeping on a bed of razors,the building of excitement.Maybe some added civic pride,there are a whole slew of added per se bennifits that do not have direct effects.

But there is a heavier price that is being paid .

Anyways you paid for the incentives and for somebody to take the ball and do what it takes.

**Zug** · April-01-13, 04:45 PM

To me, it felt like in the past that "big projects" that attracted suburbanites and tourists were hailed as things that would turn around Detroit. I don't know what the name for this would be, but I always considered it a "gravity" model...you know, build something so huge that others are bound to move near it. Convention Centers! Stadiums! Casinos!

Big things are nice, and are important in keeping an area lively. But now it feels like things are being planned on a "human scale." The ideas are based on an area being livable, and not just a "destination." There's still a ways to go before I look at downtown the way I do other big city downtowns. In terms of livability, we don't even match up well with Ann Arbor...let alone Chicago or other big cities. But I do think things are being planned where it may be possible to have a truly revitalized downtown in a decade or two if things stay on track, and developers follow through with their plans.

**jaytheory** · April-01-13, 10:18 PM

[QUOTE=Zug;376336]To me, it felt like in the past that "big projects" that attracted suburbanites and tourists were hailed as things that would turn around Detroit. I don't know what the name for this would be, but I always considered it a "gravity" model...you know, build something so huge that others are bound to move near it. Convention Centers! Stadiums! Casinos!

Silver Bullet...is what you were looking for

**Honky Tonk** · April-02-13, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

You really have to look at the bigger picture, you had downtown , nobody would or could invest into it.

So you hired him to handle it with the 200 million sign on bonus, every building he buys is another step,buy it cheap increase demand and you have a payoff or increased value to leverage for a bigger project .

Yes it could all go south 10 years from now if everything is leveraged and the market dives and notes come due,but that never happens in real estate.

So what are you getting for your money? Advancing forward, others in the funding world may not see the city as riskier then sleeping on a bed of razors,the building of excitement.Maybe some added civic pride,there are a whole slew of added per se bennifits that do not have direct effects.

But there is a heavier price that is being paid .

Anyways you paid for the incentives and for somebody to take the ball and do what it takes.

What I forsee happening, is Ilitch, Gilbert, and Penske, using taxpayer funding to establish Delta City, then funnelling profits back into their pockets. Penske @ least makes an effort to pay back the City for the use of Belle Isle, with his "Clean Downtown" campaign. We've been down this road before with the Lottery, casino's, et el. Where the money goes, nobody knows.

**bailey** · April-02-13, 12:15 PM

Perhaps not germane to the thread...and maybe a little too anecdotal, I thought I'd pass on this recent personal experience that gives me personally a little more optimism about the real world legs on this current "turning of a corner".

a couple of weeks ago a friend called me about a job with his company that he thought I might be interested in. We talked about it, I went out the exurban office park off I-75 where the job would be and did a little informal meet and greet. It was an ok opportunity, but I declined to go further for a couple of reasons, a) I'm not unhappy where I am and it wasn't THAT great of an opportunity; and b) it was just depressing thinking about the commute. It would easily be an hour, one way, in good weather and no traffic. I personally just thought it would be a better fit for someone that lives out that way. I think that even if I was seriously looking, I'd be hesitant on that commute.

Anyway, afterward we went out and were talking about why I didn't think it was fit for me, and my friend tells me that being so far away from Downtown and the inner rings has been an issue in attracting talent lately. [[I'm sort of ignoring the backhanded implication that I was down on the list.. .)

Not that they can't find anyone - they fill the positions, it's just that location out in the edges of the sprawl comes up in discussions with prospective employees often and it's in a negative context where as, according to his leaders, it never, ever did before. FWIW.

**TexasT** · April-02-13, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

What I forsee happening, is Ilitch, Gilbert, and Penske, using taxpayer funding to establish Delta City, then funnelling profits back into their pockets. Penske @ least makes an effort to pay back the City for the use of Belle Isle, with his "Clean Downtown" campaign. We've been down this road before with the Lottery, casino's, et el. Where the money goes, nobody knows.

The "Clean Downtown" campaign is from the Downtown Detroit Partnership, of which Ilitch's son and CEO is an executive and Gilbert is a board member. Penske was the visible one as chair of the DDP. I get the point that Ilitch hasn't done enough to "deserve" the help but I don't see the argument that Gilbert and his companies don't give back. So many of the events downtown are sponsored by Quicken or Rock, for example.

As for the casino money:

No, in Detroit, casino money pays for general fund expenses, essentially covering basic needs for which other sources of money -- income and property taxes and state revenue sharing -- are no longer enough. In Detroit, casino money is not an extra but an essential, helping to keep the city solvent, keep municipal paychecks from bouncing, keep the garbage trucks rolling and keep the power flowing to the streetlights that still work.

Link.

And I'm okay with some of the money going back to their pockets as long as some of the money goes to the City too. As long as you are expanding the pie, go ahead and get your slice. That's how public/private relationships are supposed to work.

**Chinman** · April-02-13, 01:02 PM

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Departments...anceZones.aspx

people are moving downtown. have you seen all the buildings bieng renovated with loft. residences in book-cadillac. ya gotta give up on the neighborhood thing. we have our pockets, but it will never be like the old days unless developers tear-down and build swaths. look up east of jefferson at end of st. jean.

**Honky Tonk** · April-02-13, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Chinman

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Departments...anceZones.aspx

people are moving downtown. have you seen all the buildings bieng renovated with loft. residences in book-cadillac. ya gotta give up on the neighborhood thing. we have our pockets, but it will never be like the old days unless developers tear-down and build swaths. look up east of jefferson at end of st. jean.

There are other liveable neighborhoods in the Metro-Detroit area. @ $1750 per month, for 1033 sq. Ft., I have no intention of moving to Midtown, you're welcome to mine.

**TexasT** · April-02-13, 02:13 PM

Yeah, look, I'm the definition of a city-loving yuppie but even I get that not everyone wants that lifestyle. I'd guess most do not, as most metro areas have the majority of their residents in neighborhoods and suburbs as opposed to condos and high-rises. Definitely can't give up on the neighborhoods.