Gilbert's Plan: Downtown Detroit as a Pedestrian Paradise

[subsidized]

Here is a link to the full plan in PDF format.

http://opportunitydetroit.com/wp-con...Book-PDFSm.pdf

[downtownguy]

The one street that I think could be successfully closed downtown [[and then only in the warm weather months, and year round after deliveries)... would be the 1 block stretch of Monroe in Greektown.

The cops do that all the time when there's a lot of activity downtown. I've never understood the logic. It just seems to make a difficult situation worse.

[canuck]

Pretty interesting. I think his team is steering this pretty admirably. I like the art component, lots of room for temporary stages, a gallery and studios downtown for the CCS, public exhibition displays outdoors. Also like the small market scene that will be created. Good stuff, and a reasonably short timetable.

[southen]

based on the pdf it looks as if cadillac will be completely blocked off between first national and the monroe block. cant say im a fan of that.

[Detroitdave]

I'm not clear about the image of Jefferson and Woodward ?
It looks as if its closed off and used for peds? If that is true that's an crazy intersection to block off ? Maybe I'm not "reading" it right ? Or not paying attention to something that was said ?

[stasu1213]

I wonder when the GM Headquarters will announce that stores will be opening in the Wintergardens. I better not hold my breath waiting to hear it

[Hermod]

Those of us with longer memories remember that closing off Woodward and Washington Blvd. dealt the death blow to downtown retail. Other American cities have experimented with this same notion, which does sound good on paper, with similar poor results, including several here in Michigan. I truly hope that we don't have to go around that particular cycle of civic disaster again.

Norfolk made Granby St a pedestrian mall and it collapsed. Now they have opened it back up again and it ts thriving. Miami Beach made Lincoln Road a pedestrian mall and it has been great. Go figure.

[Hermod]

When I see Ren Cen workers spill out to the riverfront on their lunches it kind of reminds me of the end of the The Island. Very exciting.

When I worked in downtown Detroit [[the Water Board Building), lunchtime was brown-bag Euchre time! None of that sissy going out for lunch crap.

[southen]

I'm not clear about the image of Jefferson and Woodward ?
It looks as if its closed off and used for peds? If that is true that's an crazy intersection to block off ? Maybe I'm not "reading" it right ? Or not paying attention to something that was said ?

what they said during the presentation is that it would be a "free for all" type of intersection. so traffic would stop allowing pedestrians to meander wherever they wanted to go then traffic would be allowed to pass through again. strange concept that i think is a little far fetched.

[Hermod]

I know I'm always the downer around here, but I'll say it anyway.

Isn't there something strange about this?

A developer buys all these downtown buildings, each of which likely gets a tax abatement attached to it. This is a way of transferring the money from a poor city to a rich landowner.

The city lacks the wealth to come up with an ambitious plan for downtown, largely because of tax abatements and subsidies to going concerns and developers.

And then the private developer unveils the plan he'd prefer for downtown, which will enrich him further, with no public input into the design.

Bless or damn Gilbert's intentions, doesn't this seem a little too Delta City?

The scary thing is, Nerd, that I am finding myself in your corner on this one. it looks almost like a Potemkin village. Lets leave this stuff for Walt Disney and concentrate on commerce. Stores will come if it is profitable and they won't come if shrinkage, government corruption, and lack of traffic discourage them.

[brizee]

You are kidding us right?

There are literally five Family Dollars and at least one Dollar General on on Woodward between 6 mile and Downtown.

A Dollar General in Lafayette Park strip mall.

A new Family Dollar pops up almost literally every time I look up.

This city is in no way hurting for thrift shopping.

[DetroitPlanner]

Cadillac Square

I find it interesting that the proposal has re-established this area as Detroit's Central Market.
http://www.thehenryford.org/exhibits...003/03_nov.asp

[himynameiszck]

I'm a little late in the conversation, but I wanted to chime in and say that the reason why there isn't extensive residential development right now is simply that rental rates are too low. I remember reading a couple months ago that it was impossible for developers to make a profit without subsidies when rates are lower that $2/sf/month. Broderick is going for about $1.50/sf.

I think this placemaking plan is an effort to increase demand for residential while maintaining scarcity. Gilbert and friends are trying to push up rental rates so it will be possible to make a profit off of their new developments in the future. If they build a ton of residential now, then the scarcity component will disappear and they'll take a loss.

[Hypestyles]

will there be a movie theater?

[401don]

what they said during the presentation is that it would be a "free for all" type of intersection. so traffic would stop allowing pedestrians to meander wherever they wanted to go then traffic would be allowed to pass through again. strange concept that i think is a little far fetched.

These are known as Pedestrian Scrambles. The one introduced in Toronto at Yonge/Dundas [[outside the Eaton Centre main entrance) has worked quite well. At Jefferson it would be good during large events at Hart Plaza but right now there isn't near enough pedestrian traffic to justify stopping 6 lanes of traffic.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...-AXTNpZW1ifhwA

[Spartan]

These are known as Pedestrian Scrambles. The one introduced in Toronto at Yonge/Dundas [[outside the Eaton Centre main entrance) has worked quite well. At Jefferson it would be good during large events at Hart Plaza but right now there isn't near enough pedestrian traffic to justify stopping 6 lanes of traffic.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...-AXTNpZW1ifhwA

Yeah, I've seen this in San Francisco, and they also do it before and after Michigan football games in Ann Arbor. Actually is a pretty good idea if the traffic numbers dictate it. During Hart Plaza and large Campus Martius events, it could probably work. As pedestrian traffic [[supposedly) continues to increase, it could be further implemented. Not a bad solution for an awfully difficult intersection.

[mwilbert]

I'm a little late in the conversation, but I wanted to chime in and say that the reason why there isn't extensive residential development right now is simply that rental rates are too low. I remember reading a couple months ago that it was impossible for developers to make a profit without subsidies when rates are lower that $2/sf/month. Broderick is going for about $1.50/sf.

I think this is a key point. I don't know if the numbers are exactly right, but I'm pretty sure you can't do unsubsidized residential units at the current rents. However, I don't necessarily think that not doing more residential is part of a master plan; I think there is a limited amount of subsidy available, and converting old office buildings to residential use is generally really expensive.

[begingri]

I'm not sure if I missed it, but how much is this costing and who is paying for it?

[gthomas]

Nice open, airy retail space at the 1001 Skyscraper.

[gthomas]

[Detroit68]

Is he proposing that Cadillac Square be closed to vehicles?

This rendering of Papa Joe's seems to suggest Cadillac Square will remain open to traffic.

[subsidized]

This rendering of Papa Joe's seems to suggest Cadillac Square will remain open to traffic.

Don't get fixed on the renderings. Like they said before the meeting yesterday, the renderings are not what you're going to see, they're simply there to paint a picture of what it might be like.

[michimoby]

I don't see any homeless folks or guys peddling gold chains in those renderings. What hath Gilbert wrought?!

[canuck]

I don't see any homeless folks or guys peddling gold chains in those renderings. What hath Gilbert wrought?!

They are taking a nap behind them there bushes. Everybody deserves a break.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Detroit will not become a vibrant walk able city until they decide to build shops, bars and restaurants along its beautiful river front property. I know this would be a massive shift of where current development is taking place but one only needs to look at other cities such as Pittsburgh Baltimore, San Francisco...etc to see that this a move that would bring people of all walks into the city [[not just Mid-town)...let some deep pockets [[Dan Gilbert) explore this idea and see what they come up with, in 25 years you would have a brand new city....and maybe just maybe everyone wouldn't still be wrapped around the axle of racial divide