Gilbert's Plan: Downtown Detroit as a Pedestrian Paradise

[southen]

the more i think of it the more i think he missed a big opportunity in not including residential in the z-block development. he has a plan for a library district market, what would have been better than residents just across from it?

[downtownguy]

As someone who has lived downtown or close to downtown for the past 32 years, I agree that more residential is important. But warm bodies of any type can help retail. Consider this: the Kales, David Whitney and Broderick Tower which surround Grand Circus Park will eventually have about 350 residential units. I'm guessing, since these will likely be occupied mostly by one or two people per unit, the number in those recent, high-profile conversions will eventually add roughly 600 residents to downtown. On the other hand, in one act, Campbell Ewald will add about the same number of employees downtown. Whether you're an employee, resident, or tourist from the burbs or halfway across the globe, you are now a prospective retail customer. So, let's not get too hung up on residential. According to the Free Press in an article last August, downtown gained 10,000 new employees since mid 2010. If the jobs keep coming, then residential will follow. The demand is there. I'm sure the increased numbers of workers played into the decisions of these retailers to locate downtown now.

[401don]

I didn't like the way the other guy criticized the Compuware Building so much, especially with Peter Karmanos in the audience. The building has retail on both sides which Karmanos has offered at very reasonable rates to keep leased. The front of the building opens to the park and invites people inward. Pretty ironic the guy says it's not inviting enough when Borders was forced to lock the Woodward entrance due to theft.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Interesting food for thought for the folks that bash relocation incentives for companies. Downtownguy posted the 10,000 number, but we're now close to 12,000 more people that have relocated jobs to the CBD. I will focus on one number here with this and be conservative.

Suppose these people average $60k per year in salary and every single one of them lives outside the city.

12,000 people times $60,000 per year = $720,000,000
Now multiply that by the 1.2% individual income tax rate and you get...

$8,640,000 in new individual income taxes alone!

And this doesn't even consider the 2.00% corporate income tax, state sharing of sales tax receipts, the new jobs for people that work at the restaurants and other places that serve these new workers [[and also pay taxes) and so on.

[401don]

As someone who has lived downtown or close to downtown for the past 32 years, I agree that more residential is important. But warm bodies of any type can help retail. Consider this: the Kales, David Whitney and Broderick Tower which surround Grand Circus Park will eventually have about 350 residential units. I'm guessing, since these will likely be occupied mostly by one or two people per unit, the number in those recent, high-profile conversions will eventually add roughly 600 residents to downtown. On the other hand, in one act, Campbell Ewald will add about the same number of employees downtown. Whether you're an employee, resident, or tourist from the burbs or halfway across the globe, you are now a prospective retail customer. So, let's not get too hung up on residential. According to the Free Press in an article last August, downtown gained 10,000 new employees since mid 2010. If the jobs keep coming, then residential will follow. The demand is there. I'm sure the increased numbers of workers played into the decisions of these retailers to locate downtown now.

I agree as long as there's a way to get these workers to walk around. The good news is these older buildings don't have attached parking. Hopefully the workers walk from their garages and aren't shuttled. When I see Ren Cen workers spill out to the riverfront on their lunches it kind of reminds me of the end of the The Island. Very exciting.

[ElbertHanks]

This announcement made me a little more at ease with his shopping spree. This makes it less likely that Gilbert's in it just to build more parking structures a la Ilitch. It does seem like he gets it -- or the people who work for him -- about what makes urban centers attractive places to be.

Whether you like Gilbert or not it is pretty clear that when he buys building he puts it to use. For example, some of the tenant announcements today were for one of his Woodward Buildings on the 1500 hundred block if I recall correctly. Recently a renovation of the Old Federal Reserve Complex was announced. His newest purchase the Vinton building was mentioned today as either yet another Boutique Hotel or lofts and has a project manager working on it.

While having one entity own over 3M square feet of space might raise concerns its hard to argue with the simple fact that the buildings are now being utilized. Its beyond unfortunate that Illitch's people didn't take a similar approach with some of their properties.

[canuck]

As someone who has lived downtown or close to downtown for the past 32 years, I agree that more residential is important. But warm bodies of any type can help retail. Consider this: the Kales, David Whitney and Broderick Tower which surround Grand Circus Park will eventually have about 350 residential units. I'm guessing, since these will likely be occupied mostly by one or two people per unit, the number in those recent, high-profile conversions will eventually add roughly 600 residents to downtown. On the other hand, in one act, Campbell Ewald will add about the same number of employees downtown. Whether you're an employee, resident, or tourist from the burbs or halfway across the globe, you are now a prospective retail customer. So, let's not get too hung up on residential. According to the Free Press in an article last August, downtown gained 10,000 new employees since mid 2010. If the jobs keep coming, then residential will follow. The demand is there. I'm sure the increased numbers of workers played into the decisions of these retailers to locate downtown now.

Absolutely.

With the relative safety of downtown, the cleanliness, the architectural appeal and proximity to work, the ball will keep rolling. The riverfront is so open in Detroit compared to other North American cities that often have industrial/harbor junk to contend with, it is pretty inviting really.

[EastsideAl]

What do you mean "closing off Woodward and Washington Blvd."? I'm trying to remember that.

In the late 1970s plans were put into action to close both the east half of Washington Blvd. [[the side where most of the stores were) and Woodward between Campus Martius and Grand Circus Park to traffic.

Washington Blvd. was remade into a "pedestrian-friendly" set of concrete plazas united by a central architectural element [[the infamous red 'monkey bars'), with an antique trolley car running through it as a tourist attraction.

Woodward was 'malled', covered over in red brick with very broad car-free walkways in front of the stores, divided by a two-lane transit corridor open only to buses and emergency vehicles. The long-range plan [[which never came to fruition) was to eventually build a roof over Woodward to protect shoppers from the weather and give it an even more mall-like ambiance, linking it in with the Cadillac Center Mall that was to be built on the Kern Block [[where Compuware is today).

Both plans were unmitigated disasters that instead created empty pedestrian-less wastelands and practically all of the remaining retail was gone from both areas within just a few years. Leaving in their wake the depressingly store-less and lifeless downtown that existed until just the last couple of years.

[mwilbert]

As someone who has lived downtown or close to downtown for the past 32 years, I agree that more residential is important. But warm bodies of any type can help retail. Consider this: the Kales, David Whitney and Broderick Tower which surround Grand Circus Park will eventually have about 350 residential units. I'm guessing, since these will likely be occupied mostly by one or two people per unit, the number in those recent, high-profile conversions will eventually add roughly 600 residents to downtown. On the other hand, in one act, Campbell Ewald will add about the same number of employees downtown. Whether you're an employee, resident, or tourist from the burbs or halfway across the globe, you are now a prospective retail customer. So, let's not get too hung up on residential. According to the Free Press in an article last August, downtown gained 10,000 new employees since mid 2010. If the jobs keep coming, then residential will follow. The demand is there. I'm sure the increased numbers of workers played into the decisions of these retailers to locate downtown now.

This is exactly right. You need more people downtown to get more retail, and downtown residents are more important for that purpose than downtown office space. But I expect more downtown offices will help attract more downtown residents. As more keeps happening downtown, that should encourage both.

[mwilbert]

Both plans were unmitigated disasters that instead created empty pedestrian-less wastelands and practically all of the remaining retail was gone from both areas within just a few years. Leaving in their wake the depressingly store-less and lifeless downtown that existed until just the last couple of years.

Both plans unambiguously failed, but I'm not sure you can give them credit for the pedestrian-free wastelands, which I kind of think were already in progress before those "improvements".

[DetroitPlanner]

Question for those in the know:

Is this Gilbert's "big ass bomb"? You know, the one so many people have been talking about with Apple Stores and City Targets and so on?

Or is this just a shorter-term step for this summer and the nearer term?

Sort of disappointing if the former, HOLY SHIT HOW AWESOME[[!) if the latter.

It takes baby steps to learn to walk with confidence. That is why I always interject, lets try a Family Dollar or DG whenever someone strarts going ape about how we need a Target downtown. A Target would be nice, but it is more of a want than a need. FD or DG would fill a need. Once you have successful store fulfilling needs successfully then you can start bringing in "Want" stores.

[daveyarm]

The best thing about all this? It appears that private investment, which has already moved Downtown a giant step forward, will complete the job. That means Mr. Orr can concentrate on finances and the neighborhoods.

[EastsideAl]

Both plans unambiguously failed, but I'm not sure you can give them credit for the pedestrian-free wastelands, which I kind of think were already in progress before those "improvements".

Downtown retail was not extremely healthy to be sure at the time, but both streets had most of their stores filled before they were closed to traffic. And several of those businesses, like Hudson's, had been operating downtown for decades. There was certainly much more pedestrian and economic life on the streets downtown in the late '70s than there is even today.

[mwilbert]

You are correct, but the retail was rapidly departing beforehand, and I don't think that trajectory really changed.

[canuck]

Gilbert's business is about confidence and social contracting. Whether you buy a house worth 20 grand or half a million, you are faced with your own ability or liability. His confidence will do a lot for people who need that extra push to give the city a try.

[Detroit68]

Images from Freep article:
http://www.freep.com/article/2013032...wntown-Detroit

[downtownguy]

There was certainly much more pedestrian and economic life on the streets downtown in the late '70s than there is even today.

I'd go so far as to say it was even busier with retail to the end of the 80s than it is today. Hopefully, the momentum has turned up again.

[downtownguy]

Images from Freep article:
http://www.freep.com/article/2013032...wntown-Detroit

I'm amused by the rendering of Capital Park. We're still a ways from that scenario, I'm afraid. And the rendering at Grand Circus Park looks like, well, a circus!

[southen]

i dont mind what he has in store for capitol park but im on the fence regarding grand circus park. it is underutilized but i love it because it has a historic feel that you dont quite get from the other public spaces we have downtown. placing kiosks everywhere and putting in a volleyball court will kind of ruin that.

[downtownguy]

i dont mind what he has in store for capitol park but im on the fence regarding grand circus park. it is underutilized but i love it because it has a historic feel that you dont quite get from the other public spaces we have downtown. placing kiosks everywhere and putting in a volleyball court will kind of ruin that.

I wouldn't worry about it too much just yet. Renderings have a way of not becoming reality. I DO like the pedestrian activity on the street, though, and that was the point of my comment on Capital Park. Until the developments planned for that area get going, it's not going to see that kind of foot traffic.

[Detroitdave]

WOW ! If he can pull this , this would be amazing and with the Whitney , whole foods , cobo , the crown plaza hotel ,mike ilitch's arena , the light rail ,the Z building ,ect all going on its going to be VERY busy in downtown . If they really start all this this year , its almost too much at one time !? Downtown Detroit really is on it's way back!

[Gistok]

The one street that I think could be successfully closed downtown [[and then only in the warm weather months, and year round after deliveries)... would be the 1 block stretch of Monroe in Greektown.

As for residential... it would be nice if the Stott, Book Building/Tower, United Artists, Michigan Mutual and the 2 buildings along West Adams west of Park were converted to residential.... just a damn shame that the Charlevoix won't get a chance... even the Fine Arts facade would make for a nice residential building front...

[stasu1213]

It takes baby steps to learn to walk with confidence. That is why I always interject, lets try a Family Dollar or DG whenever someone strarts going ape about how we need a Target downtown. A Target would be nice, but it is more of a want than a need. FD or DG would fill a need. Once you have successful store fulfilling needs successfully then you can start bringing in "Want" stores.

You are kidding us right?

[Spartan]

The one street that I think could be successfully closed downtown [[and then only in the warm weather months)... would be the 1 block stretch of Monroe in Greektown.

Monroe is such a main traffic area though, I don't see how it could possibly be successful closing it. It connects Campus Martius to 375. I see Cadillac as the only reasonable [[and somewhat major) closable street. Alternate routes are plentily available and it's a very short stretch.

As for residential... it would be nice if the Stott, Book Building/Tower, United Artists, Michigan Mutual and the 2 buildings along West Adams west of Park were converted to residential.... just a damn shame that the Charlevoix won't get a chance... even the Fine Arts facade would make for a nice residential building front...

I think Stott will be commercial offices, in Gilbert's portfolio. Book definitely makes sense as residential though.

[stasu1213]

Downtown retail was not extremely healthy to be sure at the time, but both streets had most of their stores filled before they were closed to traffic. And several of those businesses, like Hudson's, had been operating downtown for decades. There was certainly much more pedestrian and economic life on the streets downtown in the late '70s than there is even today.

Agreed. The malling of Woodward came too late when Detroit and downtown was in a downward spiral. Coleman Young and planners had allowed it anyway. Does anyone has photos of Washington Blvd was in was a parklike blvd when the apehanger orange bar ran along the street. I remembered walking down Washingtonin in the 80s and 90s. There would always be the aggressive panhandlers sitting around