Mariner's Church Questions

[marshamusic]

I seem to recollect this church was moved twice as well.

How did they move it??

[old guy]

How did they move it??

I've been wondering the same thing myself.

[p69rrh51]

I've been wondering the same thing myself.

An image from the Burton Historical Collection.

[DetroitPlanner]

According to W. Hawkins Ferry in Buildings of Detroit. "Calvin N. Otis of Buffalo was called upon by the Episcopalians to be the architect of the Mariners' Church, which was completed in 1849 on the northwest corner of Woodward Avenue and Woodbridge."

Maybe there was an original church in a different location? Much like Ste Anne's used to be Downtown, now its by the bridge?

Regardless WAY before my time!

[p69rrh51]

Maybe there was an original church in a different location? Much like Ste Anne's used to be Downtown, now its by the bridge?

Regardless WAY before my time!

From what I can find looks like St. Paul's Episcopal is the episcopalian equivalent of St. Anne's. The Woodward church is the third building and location in the city.

[gnome]

http://detroiths.pastperfect-online....2012020538.JPG

Artist rendering of what might have been.

[marshamusic]

An image from the Burton Historical Collection.

Thanks for the pic; that is just amazing. I presume that this is the way way that the Gem Theatre and the Elmwood were moved, right? My grandfather had houses and he moved a couple of them a few blocks maybe, to new spots in his neighborhood, on the Westside, back in the day. But this is a totally huge edifice! How do they get it unanchored from the ground, isn't it on top of a basement?! Wow. Just Wow.

[p69rrh51]

Thanks for the pic; that is just amazing. I presume that this is the way way that the Gem Theatre and the Elmwood were moved, right? My grandfather had houses and he moved a couple of them a few blocks maybe, to new spots in his neighborhood, on the Westside, back in the day. But this is a totally huge edifice! How do they get it unanchored from the ground, isn't it on top of a basement?! Wow. Just Wow.

A link to an image of the Gem on the move from here.

http://www.detroityes.com/rise/03gem1.htm

[EZZ]

Thanx everyone for the insightful input & your love of Detroit!

[p69rrh51]

An image of the Twentieth Century Club before the Gem Theatre was built from the George Mason archives at the Burton Historic Collection Detroit Public Library.

[MikeM]

How did they move it??

With really big logs. Another example of a large building move, this one with the wires still connected :

Indiana Bell HQ

[Onthe405]

From what I can find looks like St. Paul's Episcopal is the episcopalian equivalent of St. Anne's. The Woodward church is the third building and location in the city.

Indeed it is. St Anne's is the 2nd oldest continuously operating Roman Catholic parish in the nation, established in 1701. Once the British took control of Detroit, Anglo-Catholic missionaries crossed the river. By 1824, St Paul's was chartered as the first Episcopal parish in Detroit, located at Woodward & Congress [[now occupied by One Detroit Center). 27 years later, the original structure was apparently demolished. Being a charter parish, the structure was likely intentionally simple and transitory.


St Paul's parish was relocated to the new Calvin Otis-designed building two blocks SW at Congress & Shelby in 1852.

Another Calvin Otis design in Detroit, Church of the Messiah Episcopal Church 231 East Grand Boulevard built in 1852 East Grand Boulevard Historic District Detroit, MI.
Originally located at the corner of Congress and Shelby William B. Stratton helped supervise the relocation of the church to its present location in 1901.

By the early 1900s, the Episcopal Church had established enough parishioners in Detroit to establish its own diocese & cathedral. At that time, it was decided to build a new Cathedral Church of St Paul on a different site. The Otis-designed building was physically moved eastward into a newly chartered parish in a growing neighborhood on E Grand Blvd & Lafayette [[Church of the Messiah), where it stands today.

Around the same time, the vestry of St Joseph [[located at Woodward & 94) voted to merge their parish with Cathedral Church of St Paul---since the proposed SP Woodward & Warren site would be just blocks away. St Joseph was subsequently sold to the Roman Catholic diocese and became Our Lady of the Rosary, where it stands today [[with the addition of a gilded BVM atop the bell tower).


The Ralph Adams Cram-designed Cathedral Church of St Paul at Woodward & Warren was formally consecrated in 1911. Like so many other Cathedrals, the structure was never completed per the original design, which included a bell tower. The adjoining building still serves as the Bishop's office and administration for the Episcopal Diocese of MI.

[marshamusic]

With really big logs. Another example of a large building move, this one with the wires still connected :

Indiana Bell HQ

Wow, this is just absolutely thrilling! I am always amazed at the wonders of man.

And this about the Indiana Bell move: "Each was operated by a team of men that turned handles through an arc of 90 degrees six times in about 30 seconds, and then they rested 30 seconds [[!). Each operation moved the load about 3/8 of an inch."

3/8 OF AN INCH!!! What the heck?!?!?! And it had to be moved thousands of feet away!!

My goodness - the engineering of all of this, to keep the bricks and lines of the building from shifting; a workforce with the skill, stamina and patience to perform such a fete.

Just amazing......

[marshamusic]

A link to an image of the Gem on the move from here.

http://www.detroityes.com/rise/03gem1.htm

Wow, wow, wow..........I do remember when this happened, but it really is amazing, in retrospect. Thanks....

[p69rrh51]

An image of the 1828 St. Paul's Church after its 1836 updates from Buildings of Detroit. Also included is Ferry's description of the church.

[MikeM]

Wow, this is just absolutely thrilling! I am always amazed at the wonders of man.

And this about the Indiana Bell move: "Each was operated by a team of men that turned handles through an arc of 90 degrees six times in about 30 seconds, and then they rested 30 seconds [[!). Each operation moved the load about 3/8 of an inch."

3/8 OF AN INCH!!! What the heck?!?!?! And it had to be moved thousands of feet away!!

My goodness - the engineering of all of this, to keep the bricks and lines of the building from shifting; a workforce with the skill, stamina and patience to perform such a fete.

Just amazing......

Yes, with people continuing to work inside every day.

[p69rrh51]

Designed by Cram, Goodhue and Ferguson Cathedral of St. Paul Episcopal 4800 Woodward Avenue built in 1908 Cultural Center Detroit, Mi. Also includes drawings showing the Tower.

[old guy]

With really big logs. Another example of a large building move, this one with the wires still connected :Indiana Bell HQ

Both of those are unbelievable. I've actually helped move a few small houses, lifting them with screw jacks and going several blocks. I've always been fascinated with the way they raised a portion of Chicago. But I've never seen such large buildings being moved. Even the Bell building being turned and slightly moved. Thanks for the pictures.

[marshamusic]

Yes, with people continuing to work inside every day.

You know, sometimes its too bad that OMG is such an online cliche' - but sometimes that's all you can say........

[marshamusic]

An image of the 1828 St. Paul's Church after its 1836 updates from Buildings of Detroit. Also included is Ferry's description of the church.

Wait a minute - I passed this post 3 times before I realized that this text is saying that St. Paul's was in another place than it's Woodward and Warren location. WOW!.

I also just loved the narrative on the literary impulse that inspired that period of design, in a Detroit that didn't even have the proper stone for such construction. Amazing.

[p69rrh51]

Wait a minute - I passed this post 3 times before I realized that this text is saying that St. Paul's was in another place than it's Woodward and Warren location. WOW!.

I also just loved the narrative on the literary impulse that inspired that period of design, in a Detroit that didn't even have the proper stone for such construction. Amazing.

Marsha the second St. Paul's Episcopal Church is now Messiah on E. Grand Blvd.

[EastsideAl]

So there have actually been 3 St. Paul's Episcopal Churches then. The first one on Woodward between Larned and Congress, opened around 1828 and remodeled in 1836 as shown above in p69rrh51's post. The second one, opened around 1850 at Congress and Shelby, which was moved in 1901 to E. Grand Blvd. and Lafayette and renamed Church of the Messiah. And the third, and current, Cathedral Church of St. Paul at Woodward and Warren, which opened in 1911.

This is somewhat like the history of the Roman Catholic cathedrals in Detroit. Originally at Ste. Anne's [[in a building previous to the one standing today), then moved in the 1840s to the still standing Sts. Peter and Paul on Jefferson soon after that church was built, then to now gone St. Patrick's on Adelaide near John R in the late 1870s [[which was, rather confusingly, renamed as Sts. Peter and Paul during its time as the cathedral), and finally in 1937 to an actual cathedral, the current Blessed Sacrament on Woodward near Boston Blvd. Interestingly, that cathedral also had a planned tower that was never built.

[EastsideAl]

A little off the track of the thread, but also interesting, is the fact that the empty lot at E. Grand Blvd. and Lafayette that the second St. Paul's [[Church of the Messiah) was moved onto was available because its previous occupants, the Detroit Tigers, had recently moved over onto the west side to the site of the old haymarket at Michigan and Trumbull. The lot on which the church was rebuilt had been the site of Boulevard Park, which hosted the then-minor league baseball team [[in the old Western League) in the early 1890s.

My great-grandfather remembered walking down Lafayette or taking the streetcar to go to the ballgames there [[and to the amusement parks, saloons, and beer gardens that lined Jefferson in those days) in the years following his arrival in Detroit from Ireland as a young man.

Moving a prestigious church over there was part of an effort to clean that area up and make it more respectable for the higher class of people [[Protestants!) then moving into the big fancy new houses on the Boulevard. That effort mostly failed though [[my grandfather worked in those same Jefferson Ave. saloons as a child) until the last amusement park was finally shut down and demolished in 1927.

[marshamusic]

A little off the track of the thread, but also interesting, is the fact that the empty lot at E. Grand Blvd. and Lafayette that the second St. Paul's [[Church of the Messiah) was moved onto was available because its previous occupants, the Detroit Tigers, had recently moved over onto the west side to the site of the old haymarket at Michigan and Trumbull. The lot on which the church was rebuilt had been the site of Boulevard Park, which hosted the then-minor league baseball team [[in the old Western League) in the early 1890s.

My great-grandfather remembered walking down Lafayette or taking the streetcar to go to the ballgames there [[and to the amusement parks, saloons, and beer gardens that lined Jefferson in those days) in the years following his arrival in Detroit from Ireland as a young man.

Moving a prestigious church over there was part of an effort to clean that area up and make it more respectable for the higher class of people [[Protestants!) then moving into the big fancy new houses on the Boulevard. That effort mostly failed though [[my grandfather worked in those same Jefferson Ave. saloons as a child) until the last amusement park was finally shut down and demolished in 1927.

My goodness!! Such history.

I also didn't know that the St. Pauls was once on the Blvd. where Messiah is now.

Just think - so many changes in the city that we squabble and fight over today will be regarded one day as just so many bumps in the historical narrative.

[Onthe405]

marshamusic:

I understand the confusion, as there is quite a bit of [[somewhat off topic) text, but St Paul's was never located on The Blvd, although the second building was.

Here's a quick recap of St Paul's parish & its buildings:

1. Original St Paul's on Woodward at Congress [[Pic on Post #40). Demolished.

2. St Paul's on Shelby at Congress [[moved to EGB & Lafayette as a new parish and named Church of the Messiah). Still standing as Church of the Messiah at that location.

3. The Cathedral Church of St Paul [[Pics on Post #42) on Woodward & Warren. Final & current location.

Eastside Al, thanks for the interesting trivia about the ballpark!