Possible move to Detroit, please help/berate me.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 10:57 PM

Now a side point: A number of friends and others I know love the fact that there are two tired cliches that ring true:

1. You have the opportunity to make a major impact in a large city.
2. If truly does feel like a small town in a big city.

I've only been to Pitt a couple times and really enjoyed it but the two points above truly do reflect great opportunities in the city.

Take Shollin with a grain of salt - I'm pretty sure he craps himself out of fear when he turns on the bathroom light to see someone staring at him in the mirror

**jt1** · March-24-13, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I lost so much money investing in and near Detroit the best I could afford was Warren. I had no desire investing any serious money in this area. When I retire my options will open up. At any rate, what does me living in Warren have to do with anything here?

Well, you consistently point to 'facts' why people shouldn't live in Detroit yet every 'fact' points out that, if one were to chose to live in the suburbs. Warren would be one of the lease desirable places to live. It's that whole irony thing - you tell people to avoid Detroit because it is horrible but chose to live in one of the 'horrible' suburbs [[at least according to most, even Forbes)

Glad you added, "When I retire my options will open up." I'm very content knowing that your sage like advise is coming from one of Warren's true high rollers. Knowing that you will be living large in retirement completely eliminates the irony.

**canuck** · March-24-13, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Yet looking at the facts and honest answers you choose to live in Warren. Something doesn't match up - either you have made some poor decisions and ended up in your current situation [[in which you probably shouldn't be lecturing others so often) or you aren't heeding your own advice of looking at the 'facts'.

Maybe his house is happily stuck between a 7-11 and a Buffalo Wild Wings.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Now a side point: A number of friends and others I know love the fact that there are two tired cliches that ring true:

1. You have the opportunity to make a major impact in a large city.
2. If truly does feel like a small town in a big city.

I've only been to Pitt a couple times and really enjoyed it but the two points above truly do reflect great opportunities in the city.

Take Shollin with a grain of salt - I'm pretty sure he craps himself out of fear when he turns on the bathroom light to see someone staring at him in the mirror

I crapped myself when someone broke into my 80 year old neighbors house with a sledge hammer and bludgeoned him and tied him up and left him for dead or the time I was at Eastland Mall doing holiday shopping and rival gangs had a shootout inside the mall and the mall went on lockdown. Or how about the time I caught a prowler in my back yard casing my house looking for a point of entry? At least when I called the police in Harper Woods they came. Not sure I want to trust Detroit police.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I crapped myself when someone broke into my 80 year old neighbors house with a sledge hammer and bludgeoned him and tied him up and left him for dead or the time I was at Eastland Mall doing holiday shopping and rival gangs had a shootout inside the mall and the mall went on lockdown. Or how about the time I caught a prowler in my back yard casing my house looking for a point of entry? At least when I called the police in Harper Woods they came. Not sure I want to trust Detroit police.

Thankfully you moved out. Harper Woods and Eastland Mall are sooooo terrifying.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Well, you consistently point to 'facts' why people shouldn't live in Detroit yet every 'fact' points out that, if one were to chose to live in the suburbs. Warren would be one of the lease desirable places to live. It's that whole irony thing - you tell people to avoid Detroit because it is horrible but chose to live in one of the 'horrible' suburbs [[at least according to most, even Forbes)

Glad you added, "When I retire my options will open up." I'm very content knowing that your sage like advise is coming from one of Warren's true high rollers. Knowing that you will be living large in retirement completely eliminates the irony.

I won't be living in Warren when I retire. I chose Warren because it is safe, clean, affordable and close to work. After losing my house to the felons of Detroit, I'm gun shy about investing in the area. I bought a cheap co-op for cash in Warren and can get out when I need to. I'm not sure again what my living in Warren has to do with anything here? Warren has less poverty, less crime, less unemployment and get this, working streetlights.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I won't be living in Warren when I retire. I chose Warren because it is safe, clean, affordable and close to work. After losing my house to the felons of Detroit, I'm gun shy about investing in the area. I bought a cheap co-op for cash in Warren and can get out when I need to. I'm not sure again what my living in Warren has to do with anything here? Warren has less poverty, less crime, less unemployment and get this, working streetlights.

Your last statement are correct, when comparing Warren to Detroit. However, you choose to live in the suburbs, should we compare the QOL, crime, schools, ect of Warren to other suburbs? That is where your argument rings hollow.

So you argument that Warren is safer and has more working streetlights than Detroit is true. But let's compare apples to apples [[Warren to other suburbs) and see how the apples fall. I'm guessing it won't be in favor of our local high roller.

Ultimately you are conceding that you are willing to live in a less desirable suburb than others for your own motivations [[financial) but you continue to lecture people on what is wrong with Detroit or why they shouldn't live there based upon facts. The facts would dictate that if you are living in the suburbs, Warren shouldn't be at the top of the list. Facts are often helpful but not the ultimate deciding factor [[just like your situation)

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Maybe his house is happily stuck between a 7-11 and a Buffalo Wild Wings.

I would assume by his tone that he is much higher class than that, perhaps a CVS and Applebees.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Thankfully you moved out. Harper Woods and Eastland Mall are sooooo terrifying.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2010/09/...mall-shooting/

This is the particular shooting I was in the mall at
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/27...-detroit-mall/

Crime rate at the time I lived there was 3 times the national average

I guess everyone in Harper Woods is scared of there own shadow. I mean all those town meetings trying to address the crime issue were just overreacting.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Your last statement are correct, when comparing Warren to Detroit. However, you choose to live in the suburbs, should we compare the QOL, crime, schools, ect of Warren to other suburbs? That is where your argument rings hollow.

So you argument that Warren is safer and has more working streetlights than Detroit is true. But let's compare apples to apples [[Warren to other suburbs) and see how the apples fall. I'm guessing it won't be in favor of our local high roller.

Ultimately you are conceding that you are willing to live in a less desirable suburb than others for your own motivations [[financial) but you continue to lecture people on what is wrong with Detroit or why they shouldn't live there based upon facts. The facts would dictate that if you are living in the suburbs, Warren shouldn't be at the top of the list. Facts are often helpful but not the ultimate deciding factor [[just like your situation)

I guess I'm still confused you're making this a personal attack on me and where I live when I never mentioned in this thread I lived in Warren. Compared to most other inner ring suburbs, Warren would rate more favorably. Compared to Eastpointe, Harper Woods, Roseville, Hazel Park, Oak Park and parts of St Clair Shores and Sterling Heights. The thing is, I didn't want to buy another house in this area. I work in Troy and Troy didn't offer the type of housing I was looking for.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Maybe his house is happily stuck between a 7-11 and a Buffalo Wild Wings.

It's actually by a grocery store and the street is well lit so I can walk there at night.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2010/09/...mall-shooting/

This is the particle shooting I was in the mall at
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/27...-detroit-mall/

Crime rate at the time I lived there was 3 times the national average

I guess everyone in Harper Woods is scared of there own shadow. I mean all those town meetings trying to address the crime issue were just overreacting.

Well, if we are talking facts, in 2011 [[since 2012 stats aren't finalized by the FBI), there were 0 murders in HW and 6 in Warren, a person is also 4 times as likely to be raped in Warren than HW. Warren also beats HW in rates for burglary and arson. HW leads in robbery and agg assalt.

So if safety is such a priority why would you choose Warren, a city where you are more likely to be killed or raped than HW. See how stats can be funny like that? You cite anecdotal evidence when justifying your move from HW to Warren then cite stats to support why people shouldn't live in Detroit.

At least stay consistent in your key decision makers. Make it either anecdotal [[which means you can't ignore those of us, and our rationale, for choosing to live in Detroit) or choose facts which means your move to Warren makes no sense. You come off like the typical father that states, "Do as I say, not as I do" and the act gets old when it is littered with contradictions and hypocrisy.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I guess I'm still confused you're making this a personal attack on me and where I live when I never mentioned in this thread I lived in Warren. Compared to most other inner ring suburbs, Warren would rate more favorably. Compared to Eastpointe, Harper Woods, Roseville, Hazel Park, Oak Park and parts of St Clair Shores and Sterling Heights. The thing is, I didn't want to buy another house in this area. I work in Troy and Troy didn't offer the type of housing I was looking for.

Can you compare the crim stats of Warren to the cities you cite above?
The reason it is personal is that you continually cite crime as a reason no one should ever consider Detroit [[and crime is certainly a problem) but you don't compare stats of your suburb compared to others [[even citing random inner rings above).

People have different reasons for living in different areas and they are justified in their own reasons. On the other end is telling people not to live in an area then using a rationale that you, yourself did not use. Sorry, I have little patience for preaching and hypocrisy. You seem to be strong at both

**Zacha341** · March-24-13, 11:27 PM

I hear you. I'm good and don't need the statistical break-downs, charts and what not. As a Detroiter, born and raised, I work over there and don't go to Eastland Mall.

To the original subject: it's one thing to live in Detroit already and have knowledge of where to go, live - where to avoid, when and what time. That takes experience... If I were a single woman 'coming' to Detroit I'd take time to check out areas and consider sharing a dwelling or living in a good border suburb, or a downtown apartment while this EFM stuff is going down and see if crime decreases before investing too much. Your personal safety is important long after computers are shut down.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Well, if we are talking facts, in 2011 [[since 2012 stats aren't finalized by the FBI), there were 0 murders in HW and 6 in Warren, a person is also 4 times as likely to be raped in Warren than HW. Warren also beats HW in rates for burglary and arson. HW leads in robbery and agg assalt.

So if safety is such a priority why would you choose Warren, a city where you are more likely to be killed or raped than HW. See how stats can be funny like that? You cite anecdotal evidence when justifying your move from HW to Warren then cite stats to support why people shouldn't live in Detroit.

At least stay consistent in your key decision makers. Make it either anecdotal [[which means you can't ignore those of us, and our rationale, for choosing to live in Detroit) or choose facts which means your move to Warren makes no sense. You come off like the typical father that states, "Do as I say, not as I do" and the act gets old when it is littered with contradictions and hypocrisy.

Warren is about 10 times larger than Harper Woods. I'm not going to lie being a male I'm not worried about being raped. Also I live in north Warren which is much lower in crime than south Warren. When I left Harper Woods in late 2010 early 2011, the crime rates were higher. Surpringsly Harper Woods did decrease some in crime, but overall it is still 2-3 times higher than Warren. I still don't get your point. Are you trying to say the crime stats for Detroit are wrong?

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Can you compare the crim stats of Warren to the cities you cite above?
The reason it is personal is that you continually cite crime as a reason no one should ever consider Detroit [[and crime is certainly a problem) but you don't compare stats of your suburb compared to others [[even citing random inner rings above).

People have different reasons for living in different areas and they are justified in their own reasons. On the other end is telling people not to live in an area then using a rationale that you, yourself did not use. Sorry, I have little patience for preaching and hypocrisy. You seem to be strong at both

Well since I'm tired of posting these pics for you since I don't know why you are attacking me instead of possibly trying to refute that Detroit isn't dangerous if that is what you believe, I'll just post the links.

Eastpointe http://www.city-data.com/city/Eastpointe-Michigan.html
Roseville http://www.city-data.com/city/Roseville-Michigan.html
Hazel park http://www.city-data.com/city/Hazel-Park-Michigan.html
Oak Park http://www.city-data.com/city/Oak-Park-Michigan.html

Warren has the same or less crime then all of those cities. Also keep in mind Warren is larger than all those cities combined and covers a large area. I'm not going to the Warren police and request the police blotter for you, but most of Warren's crime is concentrated south of 10 mile and I do not live south of 10 mile.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:40 PM

Surpringsly Harper Woods did decrease some in crime, but overall it is still 2-3 times higher than Warren.

No, it isn't but you seem to only like to use actual facts when it suits your argument.

I still don't get your point. Are you trying to say the crime stats for Detroit are wrong?

Pretty sad that you still don't get my point. I'l make it easy with simple points:

1. You cite Detroit crime stats as the compelling reason why someone should not move to Detroit
2. You choose to live in the suburbs [[nothing wrong with that as Detroit crime is crazy high)
3. There are a number of suburbs in metro Detroit. The majority of them are within a reasonable driving distance of your work.
4. Likely [[I haven't checked the stats, kinda taking your lead here) the majority have better crime stats than

Per your logic [[3) and [[4) would be a reason to not live in Warren. You tell people not to live in Detroit because of [[1) but if you heeded your own advice you would consider [[3) and [[4) and find a better community.

So your reasons to choose Warren are not driven strictly by crime stats yet you chose to live there. You are admitting that considerations of crime are just one option in considering where to live but dictate to others that it should be their primary reason not to live in Detroit.

Shollin · March-24-13, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

No, it isn't but you seem to only like to use actual facts when it suits your argument.

The crime index for Harper Woods in 2010 was 796. Warren was 320. Are you vision impaired?

[quote]Pretty sad that you still don't get my point. I'l make it easy with simple points:

1. You cite Detroit crime stats as the compelling reason why someone should not move to Detroit
2. You choose to live in the suburbs [[nothing wrong with that as Detroit crime is crazy high)
3. There are a number of suburbs in metro Detroit. The majority of them are within a reasonable driving distance of your work.
4. Likely [[I haven't checked the stats, kinda taking your lead here) the majority have better crime stats than

Per your logic [[3) and [[4) would be a reason to not live in Warren. You tell people not to live in Detroit because of [[1) but if you heeded your own advice you would consider [[3) and [[4) and find a better community.

So your reasons to choose Warren are not driven strictly by crime stats yet you chose to live there. You are admitting that considerations of crime are just one option in considering where to live but dictate to others that it should be their primary reason not to live in Detroit.

Warren isn't the most crime ridden city in the United States. This is stupid. This is between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Not Warren. Because I live in Warren I'm not allowed to discuss crime in Detroit?

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Well since I'm tired of posting these pics for you since I don't know why you are attacking me instead of possibly trying to refute that Detroit isn't dangerous if that is what you believe, I'll just post the links.

Eastpointe http://www.city-data.com/city/Eastpointe-Michigan.html
Roseville http://www.city-data.com/city/Roseville-Michigan.html
Hazel park http://www.city-data.com/city/Hazel-Park-Michigan.html
Oak Park http://www.city-data.com/city/Oak-Park-Michigan.html

Warren has the same or less crime then all of those cities. Also keep in mind Warren is larger than all those cities combined and covers a large area. I'm not going to the Warren police and request the police blotter for you, but most of Warren's crime is concentrated south of 10 mile and I do not live south of 10 mile.

Again, to keep it simple, I will go with an easy numbering system for you to address:

1. Where, please oh please tell me where, I have stated that Detroit isn't dangerous.
2. You left St. Clair Shores off the list. I guess the data didn't support the earlier claim. Granted, you said, parts of St. Clair Shores. I'd like to know which parts and what data you used to support that claim.
3. Pointing to stats is funny: Warren [[320.9) Hazel Park [[327.5) Oak Park [[333.4) are so close that the difference is on the scale of a couple crimes so saying Warren is 'safer' is a reach.
4. You keep citing safety: Can you compare Warren to the dozens of other local communities then explain why you choose Warren over those safer communities
5. I didn't realize we could differentiate what parts of a city are more dangerous. If so, can we discuss the 'safer' parts of Detroit since you are discussing that Warren is only dangerous south of 10 mile or would that hurt your argument.

**jt1** · March-24-13, 11:55 PM

The crime index for Harper Woods in 2010 was 796. Warren was 320. Are you vision impaired?

I cited that the numbers were for 2011. So, no I am not vision impaired and the numbers for HW are much higher for auto theft. Certainly an inconvenience but you seem to be discussing violent crime, not properly crime. But even considering the auto theft it still isn't doubel in 2011.

Because you live in Warren you are not allowed to discuss crime as the absolute reason to choose Pittsburgh over Detroit [[since you would have left Warren for another suburb). Cite the myriad other factors but your harping on one stat while ignoring it for your own city compared to other suburbs makes you a hypocrite.

In your mind it is clear that there is not one single reason for one person to ever live in Detroit. But different strokes for different folks prevails and you ignore that very, very simple fact. That is why you are living in Warren. That is why I, and many of my friends that can live elsewhere choose Detroit.

Until that simple concept gets through to you then I will call out your hypocrisy of using crime as the one reason not to move to Detroit while ignoring it for your own situation [[and yes, crime in Detroit is much, much higher than Warren but Warren crime is higher than a number of other suburbs)

**Richard** · March-24-13, 11:56 PM

[QUOTE=Shollin;374733]The crime index for Harper Woods in 2010 was 796. Warren was 320. Are you vision impaired?

Pretty sad that you still don't get my point. I'l make it easy with simple points:

Warren isn't the most crime ridden city in the United States. This is stupid. This is between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Not Warren. Because I live in Warren I'm not allowed to discuss crime in Detroit?

Do you believe it is fair to use your personal expirences to blanket every square inch of a city with a negivtive portrayal ?

Would you consider the thought that just maybe you might have made some wrong due diligence in your investment which ended up with bad results?

Did you speak to other residents and get a feel and knowlage of where you were investing in?

Shollin · March-25-13, 12:01 AM

Why the hell do I have to justify where I live to you? You didn't say Detroit wasn't dangerous but why are you attacking me on living in Warren? I'm trying to figure out what point you want to prove.

St Clair Shores is a nice place and I would've lived there had they had what I was looking for. Some of the southern parts compare similarly to northern Warren.

I didn't say safer. I said the same or safer. Those would be the cities that Warren is the same. Roseville, Eastpointe, and Harper Woods would be the ones Warren is safer than

Again, why do I have to justify my choice of city to you? Does the OP even care if I live in?

The safer parts of Detroit and few and far between. I was comparing Detroit to Pittsburgh and you have to bring Warren in for some reason.

Shollin · March-25-13, 12:03 AM

[QUOTE=Richard;374736]

Originally Posted by Shollin

The crime index for Harper Woods in 2010 was 796. Warren was 320. Are you vision impaired?

Do you believe it is fair to use your personal expirences to blanket every square inch of a city with a negivtive portrayal ?

Would you consider the thought that just maybe you might have made some wrong due diligence in your investment which ended up with bad results?

Did you speak to other residents and get a feel and knowlage of where you were investing in?

Back in 1993 Harper Woods was a much different place. Fast forward to 2010 and all hell broke loose in Detroit surrounding Harper Woods and the crime shot up. It could've been worse. I had some bids out on some houses in Northeast Detroit that I didn't get.

**jt1** · March-25-13, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Why the hell do I have to justify where I live to you? You didn't say Detroit wasn't dangerous but why are you attacking me on living in Warren? I'm trying to figure out what point you want to prove.

St Clair Shores is a nice place and I would've lived there had they had what I was looking for. Some of the southern parts compare similarly to northern Warren.

I didn't say safer. I said the same or safer. Those would be the cities that Warren is the same. Roseville, Eastpointe, and Harper Woods would be the ones Warren is safer than

Again, why do I have to justify my choice of city to you? Does the OP even care if I live in?

The safer parts of Detroit and few and far between. I was comparing Detroit to Pittsburgh and you have to bring Warren in for some reason.

It's a simple matter of hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less. Clearly you aren't getting it nor will you get it. I am simply pointing out that you are giving very definitive advice without considering it for yourself.

Enjoy Warren, at least you can look down your nose on all of us Detroiters that are too stupid to realize the horrific mistake we are making. I'll concede, you are better than me and have made better choices than I have since clearly, based upon your 'facts', there is no reasonable reason anyone would live in Detroit unless they are stupid or too poor to get out.

I'll check my financial statements and let you know which one applies to me.

Shollin · March-25-13, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

I cited that the numbers were for 2011. So, no I am not vision impaired and the numbers for HW are much higher for auto theft. Certainly an inconvenience but you seem to be discussing violent crime, not properly crime. But even considering the auto theft it still isn't doubel in 2011.

Because you live in Warren you are not allowed to discuss crime as the absolute reason to choose Pittsburgh over Detroit [[since you would have left Warren for another suburb). Cite the myriad other factors but your harping on one stat while ignoring it for your own city compared to other suburbs makes you a hypocrite.

In your mind it is clear that there is not one single reason for one person to ever live in Detroit. But different strokes for different folks prevails and you ignore that very, very simple fact. That is why you are living in Warren. That is why I, and many of my friends that can live elsewhere choose Detroit.

Until that simple concept gets through to you then I will call out your hypocrisy of using crime as the one reason not to move to Detroit while ignoring it for your own situation [[and yes, crime in Detroit is much, much higher than Warren but Warren crime is higher than a number of other suburbs)

Even using 2011 [[which I moved in January 2011) Harper Woods crime index was 596 and Warren was 320. Almost double. Plus the zip code I live in in Warren is lower than the city as a whole. Because I live in Warren I can't talk about Detroit's crime? That's ridiculous.

BTW, I left Harper Woods and lived in Sterling Heights for awhile before settling in Warren. I'm sure you'll have a field day with that one.