Possible move to Detroit, please help/berate me.

[Detroitnerd]

There you go again blaming the suburbs for the crime in Detroit and you have the nerve to say the suburbs hold a grudge against Detroit.

You really don't have a sense of humor at all, do you? I think it was pretty clear that my remarks about "doing what we can to make the city a hellhole" are intended to be satire. Or are you just so all-fired on fighting out your poorly informed flame war that you intentionally take it to heart like a bad basketball actor thudding to the ground and holding a knee with a grimace after being brushed by?

Crime isn't going down.

It's spiking in Detroit right now. Nationally it is going down. I imagine that there must be a special toxic brew in our region to produce a city with the highest murder rate. Then again, it is going down in neighborhoods that are being invested in. Maybe the total disinvestment from the city is causing the neighborhoods to turn into shooting galleries? [[Wait, don't consider that. It would go against your "blaming other people" thing.)

Anyway, you are going to always run the risk of something bad happening in any big city, from here to New York to San Francisco. What's the answer, then? Abandon all cities? Ridiculous! What you do is you mitigate the risks. You watch your surroundings. You participate in Neighborhood Watch meetings. You sit on your porch. You avoid dodgy neighborhoods. You dress down. You live in and spend most of your time in the safer, better neighborhoods.

I'll tell you this, I've lived in Detroit for the last 10 years and I haven't been killed once. The sad thing is that, it's the people who've lived in Detroit their whole lives who are dying. Not people like me, who come here. That fate is seldom reserved for those who don't go into the ruined neighborhoods.

And whom do the doomed residents of those neighborhoods have to thank for the conditions they've grown up in?

All of us, Shollin. Every last one of us.

[Shollin]

I would be very surprised if this were true.

Detroit has lost at least 50% of its population since the 70's, so crime would have to have dropped by massive amounts to have a drop in per capita crime.

And that's assuming that the same proportion of crimes is reported as back 40 years ago [[which sounds absurd, given that reporting is now useless for 90% of crimes).

I'm guessing crime is way up since the 70's, and getting progressively worse. It's probably never been worse than right now. But now, no one reports the small stuff [[and yet crime is still highest in the country).

It's not true. Detroit had the single highest violent crime rate in 2012 among cities with a population of 200,000 or more. In 1974 Detroit had 714 homicides and a population of 1.5 million roughly 47.6 per 100k. Detroit had 386 last year with a 700k population and roughly 55 murders per 100k.

[Detroitnerd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrOObczCkE4

[p69rrh51]

I am thinking of moving to Detroit. I'm female, single, early 30's, overeducated, completely mobile [[could live/work anywhere with an internet connection), have $60,000 in savings and make $50-80k/year [[depending on how much work I take on).

Main reasons for considering a move to Detroit [[also considering Pittsburgh) are based mostly on what I want and not on any wish to 'save' anyone or anything. Nothing against that, just trying to avoid what seems to be a somewhat common - and possibly deserved - opinion of newcomers riding into town on their white horses.

What I want is: a beautiful home - by 'beautiful' I mostly mean old, spacious rooms, hopefully a yard [[overall square footage not a huge concern - 1000sf of high ceilinged beauty is better for me than 3500sf of pokey rooms and bad light), a tightknit community, good friends, to settle down and make a home/life somewhere, a certain level of activity/action. I could live on the east coast of Canada for slightly higher COL but the countryside isn't for me [[I grew up in the middle of nowhere and have no wish to return). Home ownership is very important to me, but I am not willing to spend 20 years paying off a home I don't even like very much, which is what the case will be if I buy here [[Montreal) or British Columbia. If I'm going to be the bank's bitch, it has to be for something worthwhile, ya know? Scruffyness doesn't bother me - in people or neighbourhoods, but I would not choose to move somewhere crime ridden. It seems Detroit has all kinds of nabes. The usual suspects [[midtown, corktown etc.) would work, as would up-and-coming. I also like what I've read and seen of Hamtramck so far.

Just looking for thoughts, advice, opinions. If you're going to tell me I'm insane please outline the reason[[s) why.

Yes, I plan to visit before buying [[possibly rent for a couple of months) and yes I understand to do due diligence on real estate.

[[anyone else find this site impossible in Firefox? I'm having to use IE to post this)

Welcome omnishambles! Once you get past the usual bickering you will find most Detroit area residents outgoing and welcoming. There are plenty of great places to live in the city and in the suburbs. If you are going to rent I would suggest the Cabbage Patch in Grosse Pointe Park. Fairly dense living with good security and very close proximity to Detroit.
As for homes with yards Detroit does it better than any other city! You can find just about any type, or size of home you are interested in. Here is a link to some images of what the city has to offer. Also if you are interested in a tour of the city PM me.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...tectual-talent!

[Maof]

"If you are going to rent I would suggest the Cabbage Patch in Grosse Pointe Park. Fairly dense living with good security and very close proximity to Detroit."

totally agree. have a niece living in the area now. close to downtown and freeways.

[Zacha341]

Hah! I think I was trying to edit and did that by mistake......

You actually had your post twice, 1 minute apart, so I thought I'd post it a 3rd time to make sure you got your point across. Someone must have deleted your duplicate post, so now I look like a fool, [[fool-ER).

[iheartthed]

Go to Pittsburgh.

[Gannon]

Duplicate post? I wrote mine first ----!

Honky Tonk is on a local recycling kick.

[omnishambles]

but I'm still not getting why Detroit, as opposed to, say Tulsa, or Tacoma.

Tulsa's too far away, I'd like to stay close-ish to the border. The southern US doesn't really attract me in terms of the culture, either. Don't fancy bible belt livin'. I also grew up on the west coast, just north of the border with Washington state and it's not my scene. In that I don't make ro smoke meth, nor do I have any interest in yoga or chakra alignment. OK, I'm being slightly facetious, but I'm not a west coast type in terms of personality.

Go to Pittsburgh.

Why? You heart the D. You don't want overeducated dicks like me in town? You think it's a hellhole unsuitable for all but the most emotionally attached? What? I have noticed a certain unwelcoming vibe at times, expressed by a few people. Why is this? Is it class? Race? Something else? Please clarify.

Hmmm. So, lots of Detroit ppl are advising me to pick Pittsburgh. Is Detroit THAT crime ridden? I mean, everywhere, every single neighbourhood? Would I be unsafe walking alone at night in EVERY nabe in the city?

For what it's worth I spent 3 years in south London [[UK not Ontario) in the late 90's/early 00's in Clapham/Brixton [[NOT the gentrified part) so I'm not completely unfamiliar with 'rough' areas. I know not to go wandering through rough areas at midnight dripping gold.

Thank you to all who have replied so far, even the bickerpantses. Thank you p69rrh51 for the photos [[more links to more photos welcome and encouraged). How charmed am I that there's a neighbourhood called the Cabbage Patch? Very.

[Shollin]

Tulsa's too far away, I'd like to stay close-ish to the border. The southern US doesn't really attract me in terms of the culture, either. Don't fancy bible belt livin'. I also grew up on the west coast, just north of the border with Washington state and it's not my scene. In that I don't make ro smoke meth, nor do I have any interest in yoga or chakra alignment. OK, I'm being slightly facetious, but I'm not a west coast type in terms of personality.



Why? You heart the D. You don't want overeducated dicks like me in town? You think it's a hellhole unsuitable for all but the most emotionally attached? What? I have noticed a certain unwelcoming vibe at times, expressed by a few people. Why is this? Is it class? Race? Something else? Please clarify.

Hmmm. So, lots of Detroit ppl are advising me to pick Pittsburgh. Is Detroit THAT crime ridden? I mean, everywhere, every single neighbourhood? Would I be unsafe walking alone at night in EVERY nabe in the city?

For what it's worth I spent 3 years in south London [[UK not Ontario) in the late 90's/early 00's in Clapham/Brixton [[NOT the gentrified part) so I'm not completely unfamiliar with 'rough' areas. I know not to go wandering through rough areas at midnight dripping gold.

Thank you to all who have replied so far, even the bickerpantses. Thank you p69rrh51 for the photos [[more links to more photos welcome and encouraged). How charmed am I that there's a neighbourhood called the Cabbage Patch? Very.

Yes the crime is that bad. According to FBI crime statistics, Detroit has the single highest violent crime rate of any city with a population of 200,000 or more. It's homicide rate is one of the highest in the nation. The crime is not just concentrated in certain areas. The crime is so spread out it is infecting some border cities.

I've been to Pittsburgh and it has more to offer then some people realize. Pittsburgh has some nice universities such as Carnegie-Mellon and the University of Pittsburgh. All 3 of Pittsburgh's universities are higher regarded than Wayne State. Pittsburgh also has the Carnegie Museums and the Andy Warhol museum. Downtown Pittsburgh is nicer than downtown Detroit. Even their baseball stadium is nicer. It's ironic because the two cities have similar histories. Both Detroit and Pittsburgh peaked in 1950 and both lost over half of their population. Detroit was tied to the auto industry and Pittsburgh tied to the steel industry. Detroit hardly has any auto manufacturing left in the city and Pittsburgh has no active steel mills in the city. The difference is Pittsburgh done something. Look at SouthSide Works. Now look at the Packard Plant. Pittsburgh reinvented itself and Detroit continues to blame everyone else.

[canuck]

omnishambles, a lot of good folk want to know what business you entertain working in, and if you have or need a green card. I'm not the one asking, just passing the message on in the interest of homeland insecurity...

[michimoby]

I like Pittsburgh, but i like it far, far less than Detroit. Having dated a Pitt girl for a good long while, they're fiercely loyal -- but they also take it really, really personally if you even slightly criticize their city. Detroiters have a bit more resilience to them and defend their city when needed, but Pittsburgh folks take it to an almost-unnecessary level. I never got it; it's a great city on its own legs.

You've been following my "bye, Detroit" thread, so I won't rehash some of the points I mentioned. I will, however, make an enthusiastic plug for Chicago as an option; real estate may be more expensive, yes, but friends that have purchased homes there and enjoyed them.

In addition - and I don't know if this applies - but if you're working freelance, your potential client base will be astronomically higher in Chicago.

[p69rrh51]

Tulsa's too far away, I'd like to stay close-ish to the border. The southern US doesn't really attract me in terms of the culture, either. Don't fancy bible belt livin'. I also grew up on the west coast, just north of the border with Washington state and it's not my scene. In that I don't make ro smoke meth, nor do I have any interest in yoga or chakra alignment. OK, I'm being slightly facetious, but I'm not a west coast type in terms of personality.



Why? You heart the D. You don't want overeducated dicks like me in town? You think it's a hellhole unsuitable for all but the most emotionally attached? What? I have noticed a certain unwelcoming vibe at times, expressed by a few people. Why is this? Is it class? Race? Something else? Please clarify.

Hmmm. So, lots of Detroit ppl are advising me to pick Pittsburgh. Is Detroit THAT crime ridden? I mean, everywhere, every single neighbourhood? Would I be unsafe walking alone at night in EVERY nabe in the city?

For what it's worth I spent 3 years in south London [[UK not Ontario) in the late 90's/early 00's in Clapham/Brixton [[NOT the gentrified part) so I'm not completely unfamiliar with 'rough' areas. I know not to go wandering through rough areas at midnight dripping gold.

Thank you to all who have replied so far, even the bickerpantses. Thank you p69rrh51 for the photos [[more links to more photos welcome and encouraged). How charmed am I that there's a neighbourhood called the Cabbage Patch? Very.

If you want to see more images search for me, Benjamin Gravel on facebook and look at my photo albums. Also to throw a different observation on this subject, for the last 30 years + I have been racing sailboats all over the country. I usually get to see the best of any city's neighborhoods. I have had the privilege of seeing/spending time at just about every vacation community to wealthy suburb to outstanding urban neighborhood all through the midwest and both coasts. The only thought I usually have when I am enjoying their hospitality is I still have it better back home. Detroit is what you want to make of it. Please take time out to explore what we have to offer.

[Richard]

omnishambles, a lot of good folk want to know what business you entertain working in, and if you have or need a green card. I'm not the one asking, just passing the message on in the interest of homeland insecurity...

Thank you kind sir , I asked because I have buisness associates that migrated from Colombia to CDA and are now residents there and I would like for them to locate to Detroit.

It was more so to see what her thoughts or requirements that she has come across in that aspect.

I think it is nice she is taking the time and responding to comments but also in a sad way CDA loss and Detroit gain should she decide on that route.

[Shollin]

Pittsburgh murder rate in 2011 was 14.3 per 100,000. Detroit was 55 per 100,000. That's 4 times higher than Pittsburgh. Detroit is up almost 100 murders since 2010. Detroit came within 6 murders of New York which is over 10 times larger.

[Richard]

Pittsburgh murder rate in 2011 was 14.3 per 100,000. Detroit was 55 per 100,000. That's 4 times higher than Pittsburgh. Detroit is up almost 100 murders since 2010. Detroit came within 6 murders of New York which is over 10 times larger.

Okay you are fired as ambassador for COD,you do realize anybody with computer or smart/dumb phone can pull up statistics in seconds.

[Shollin]

Okay you are fired as ambassador for COD,you do realize anybody with computer or smart/dumb phone can pull up statistics in seconds.

Didn't even know I was hired. Too bad Kwame didn't hire me. Could've really lined my pockets.

[Shollin]

I can't think of anything Detroit has on Pittsburgh. Maybe I should've been hired as Pittsburgh ambassador. The Pirates suck. Have an advantage there.

[Richard]

See the thing is us bad outsiders hear all the bad the city has to offer everyday,to the point most think even a little monarch butterfly from Detroit will mug us given the chance.

But there are those who know there are two sides to the story so we come here to ask you where the positives are and nobody can deny there are no positives , so knowing that we already know every dirty secret the city has to offer it is your job as a responsible citizen that cares about thier city and actually wants to see it move forward to instill a little bit of positive reaction into the person seeking the information , hard to do?

[Shollin]

See the thing is us bad outsiders hear all the bad the city has to offer everyday,to the point most think even a little monarch butterfly from Detroit will mug us given the chance.

But there are those who know there are two sides to the story so we come here to ask you where the positives are and nobody can deny there are no positives , so knowing that we already know every dirty secret the city has to offer it is your job as a responsible citizen that cares about thier city and actually wants to see it move forward to instill a little bit of positive reaction into the person seeking the information , hard to do?

When asked to provide info about two cities I know well, it's hard for me to recommend Detroit over Pittsburgh. I'm sure the OP wants honest information. I can tell them how Detroit is making a turnaround because it has a Buffalo Wild Wings and 7-11 is coming, but don't I have a responsibility to be honest? Sure I could show him a few select pictures of the few streets that are intact, but look around. That isn't a true representation. This reminds me of a program I watched last night where they were exposing hotels. One hotel in Poland was advertising how beautiful it was but when they arrived, it was run down and in the shadow of a nuclear power plant. If I'm making an important life decision, I want honest answers and not some fluff and PR.

[mwilbert]

Why? You heart the D. You don't want overeducated dicks like me in town? You think it's a hellhole unsuitable for all but the most emotionally attached? What? I have noticed a certain unwelcoming vibe at times, expressed by a few people. Why is this? Is it class? Race? Something else? Please clarify.

I'm not going to psychoanalyze the people on this forum, but there does seem to be certain segment of people who stay in Detroit out of pure masochism. Maybe kind of like staying a Cubs fan. You have a hard time recommending other people become one.

Hmmm. So, lots of Detroit ppl are advising me to pick Pittsburgh. Is Detroit THAT crime ridden? I mean, everywhere, every single neighbourhood? Would I be unsafe walking alone at night in EVERY nabe in the city?

Hard to say. There are certainly a lot of places I wouldn't walk at night, and I'm relatively uncautious. The only area I feel really comfortable talking about is University District/Sherwood Forest/Green Acres/Palmer Woods, and I feel pretty safe walking there at night, but less so on the arterials. The thing is, people don't walk much in Detroit, and even less so at night. I like to walk, and I walk my [[not at all scary) dog a lot, but I stick to the areas I am most familiar with. I don't run into a lot of other people, but in general, the ones I meet are quite friendly. It should also be noted that I am a large guy, which may make a difference in my perceptions.

[Richard]

Shollin 100s of you tube videos document the destruction ,daily bombardment of local and national tv and news papers and you honestly believe nobody outside of the city has a clue as to what is going on?

Gistoc and the theater thread
pnh and his architect thread
Lowell and his non ruin porn art/pictures/this site.
all the adverage people making a difference
that is what we want to see, we want to see what the city has to offer and how we fit in because it is one thing of the city being a mess but being progressively worked on but a whole another ball game then of a city that the residents do not care enough to change it.thats the difference.If you do not care why should anybody else.

This whole you have to have cahonees the size of a Mack truck to make it in Detroit does not fly ,there's a lot more tougher places around the world.

Unless you are coming from a farm in Kansas straight to the city most are aware on how to handle and the risks involved.

[samsonov]

My wife and I recently moved from Toronto. Hands down the best part about living in Detroit is if we ever get homesick [[which happens from time to time) Canada is literally a 5 minute drive away. I don't think you'd get that in Pittsburgh. We've had no trouble with crime in the neighbourhood we live in [[Brush Park). Do your research an I'm sure you'll find an area and home you like, we did! We can't say enough great things about the city!

[jt1]

When asked to provide info about two cities I know well, it's hard for me to recommend Detroit over Pittsburgh. I'm sure the OP wants honest information. I can tell them how Detroit is making a turnaround because it has a Buffalo Wild Wings and 7-11 is coming, but don't I have a responsibility to be honest? Sure I could show him a few select pictures of the few streets that are intact, but look around. That isn't a true representation. This reminds me of a program I watched last night where they were exposing hotels. One hotel in Poland was advertising how beautiful it was but when they arrived, it was run down and in the shadow of a nuclear power plant. If I'm making an important life decision, I want honest answers and not some fluff and PR.

Yet looking at the facts and honest answers you choose to live in Warren. Something doesn't match up - either you have made some poor decisions and ended up in your current situation [[in which you probably shouldn't be lecturing others so often) or you aren't heeding your own advice of looking at the 'facts'.

[Shollin]

Yet looking at the facts and honest answers you choose to live in Warren. Something doesn't match up - either you have made some poor decisions and ended up in your current situation [[in which you probably shouldn't be lecturing others so often) or you aren't heeding your own advice of looking at the 'facts'.

I lost so much money investing in and near Detroit the best I could afford was Warren. I had no desire investing any serious money in this area. When I retire my options will open up. At any rate, what does me living in Warren have to do with anything here?