More closings in Birmingham

[Bham1982]

bottom line - for the most part you can get better food at better prices in a better atmosphere almost everywhere else

I don't know how to quantify any of this, but I would say, excepting maybe downtown Detroit, there is no place in Metro Detroit with comparable restaurant quality.

Forest Grill is probably the best restaurant in Michigan. There are a whole host of very good restaurants. I can't think of really any unacceptably bad "nice" restaurants, like you have in Royal Oak, with abominations like Sangria, Andiamo, Mr. B's, or Little Tree.

There aren't many cheap sit-down places [[some mediocre Thai and Indian places) compared to other suburbs, because you don't have the ethnic communities and cheap strip malls here. If you want good Vietnamese or wherever, it's off to Madison Heights.

[DTWflyer]

FYI - Kilwins abruptly closed at the end of Feb. I suspect it was mostly due rent costs as their stores as a whole company-wide are doing well and they are expanding into new markets.

Yep. The difference, though, is that there are now far more teenagers, and they're mostly "not from the community", or that's the impression people have. The two multiplexes and the various hangouts [[Panera, etc.) draw the teens.


Birmingham Schools are quite good, but they really aren't close to the top in Oakland County.

IMO there are plenty of reasons to live in Birmingham, but you can get the same or better education in many Oakland County communities, and always with lower taxes and far lower home prices.

Birmingham also seems to do a poor job keeping out nonresident children whose parents illegally claim a Birmingham address. Places like the Pointes are almost militaristic in their procedures, but it works. In Birmingham, they're lax, and nonresident parents know it.

Comparing which school district is the "best" is very subjective, although I would have to argue that as a whole Birmingham schools are still one of the top districts in Oakland County. Birmingham is in the top-tier with the Troy, Bloomfield, Novi, Rochester districts that all have extremely high test scores, high college placements rates, and excellent parental involvement.

Birmingham School District pulls from a hodge-podge of areas too, so you have Groves H.S which pulls in parts of Southfield, West Bloomfield, and Franklin.

To your last point, there is also some amount of less desireable rental properties along the borders on Maple and 14 Mile that do pull in people from other communities. Often times they may have a family member or relative there and they send there kids to school in the district. Granted, they just want their kids to have a chance and believe that a BPS education may give them that opportunity.

Either way parental involvement in a child's education is just as important if not more important that good schools.

[iheartthed]

I don't know how to quantify any of this, but I would say, excepting maybe downtown Detroit, there is no place in Metro Detroit with comparable restaurant quality.

Ann Arbor for sure... Unless you don't want to count that as Metro Detroit.

[Bham1982]

Ann Arbor for sure... Unless you don't want to count that as Metro Detroit.

Yeah, you're right; Ann Arbor too. I still think of Metro Detroit as just tri-county area.

[artds]

I think the article explained it. I work in downtown Birmingham, and there are so many new restaurants that have opened down here in the past 18 months that some of the weaker concepts are going to lose out to their competitors. Barrio definitely fell into this category. They tried too hard to create a posh Mexican menu. I recall caviar-stuffed enchiladas being one of the menu choices. They were also priced too high for Mexican food. A regular Mexican-style restaurant would have probably fared much better.

[Honky Tonk]

I recall caviar-stuffed enchiladas being one of the menu choices.

There's something really wrong about that.

[rb336]

I was not terribly impressed with Forest Grill either time I went. I had lunch and got onion soup. it was OK at best. It pales next to the Common Grill's.

I went to dinner at around 6 once, and an hour and a half after ordering there was no trace of our food. We got up to leave and they expected me to pay a bill for what we never got. ​I told them what I thought of THAT idea

[noise]

I was not terribly impressed with Forest Grill either time I went. I had lunch and got onion soup. it was OK at best. It pales next to the Common Grill's.

I went to dinner at around 6 once, and an hour and a half after ordering there was no trace of our food. We got up to leave and they expected me to pay a bill for what we never got. ​I told them what I thought of THAT idea

I'm not terribly confident that this place is "best restaurant in Michigan".

[Bham1982]

I'm not terribly confident that this place is "best restaurant in Michigan".

Obviously there is no actual way to determine the "best" restaurant, but if you ask foodies, it would be at or near the top of their list. In any case, it has been "Restaurant of the Year" and is definitely the destination dining place for foodies visiting the region.

I've been there four times, and every meal was excellent.

And re. the enchiladas with caviar, that basically encapsulates everything that's wrong with Birmingham today. Overhyped, flashy to the point of ridiculousness, and trying desperately to be some Midwest version of Beverly Hills or whatever plastic Sunbelt place.

And it should be a crime to mix Mexican street food with caviar of all things, which is supposed to be served ice-cold. Why not try and make a good enchilada, which is hard enough to find in this part of the world.

[noise]

Obviously there is no actual way to determine the "best" restaurant, but if you ask foodies, it would be at or near the top of their list. In any case, it has been "Restaurant of the Year" and is definitely the destination dining place for foodies visiting the region.

I'm still not sure I agree. I have been to a lot of the "best" restaurants in the state, including Forest Grill. It's good. I think that's the consensus.

There are things like Zagat ratings, or Yelp for that matter.

I understand where you're coming from, though. Not trying to argue. I was a little taken aback by the tone or confidence of your initial comment, which you've since clarified. It's all good.

[Detroitnerd]

At times I feel like there is some concerted effort on the part of realtors, investors, and city planners to make Birmingham into something that isn't natural.

Well, the identity of any particular place is bound to change over time. By the late 1980s, Birmingham was already a place with more than a few fashionable restaurants. But it wasn't until the early 1970s that they even legalized selling wine by the glass. Prohibition hung on for a long time there, and in the ways it fiercely maintained its identity until it was long out of date. Maybe Birmingham is due for another change.

[Wesley Mouch]

The landscape of Detroit is littered with 'downtowns' that are failed. By comparison, Birmingham has done a good job of reinventing itself. Perfect? No. But I think their downtown will survive in a way that isn't the case with Berkley, Southfield, Clawson.

One article about one development doesn't really tell you much about downtown Birmingham.

[m b v]

Does Birmingham still have a ton of teenagers hanging out uptown at night?

I grew up in B'ham and went to Birmingham Public Schools from K-12. While I am thankful of the education I received and the upbringing I had, I am very happy I do not live there anymore.

Ditto. Would you expand on what makes you say this?

When I'm home, outside of the major holidays when I get together with other old friends, Th-Sat Birmingham nightlife is full of tacky wannabes and obnoxious teens from neighboring cities. A lot has changed in the 7 years since I graduated high school. If I was forced to raise a family in Metro Detroit, Birmingham wouldn't crack the top 5. I'd probably consider "boring" enclaves like Clarkston, Rochester Hills or Commerce Twp.

[D_Town]

The landscape of Detroit is littered with 'downtowns' that are failed. By comparison, Birmingham has done a good job of reinventing itself. Perfect? No. But I think their downtown will survive in a way that isn't the case with Berkley, Southfield, Clawson.

One article about one development doesn't really tell you much about downtown Birmingham.

Southfield has a downtown somewhere? I thought it was stripmalls, parking lots, and office buildings.

Birmingham is fine. The only thing I notice is the residents complain a lot of about the trouble nightlife brings.

[m b v]

Birmingham is fine. The only thing I notice is the residents complain a lot of about the trouble nightlife brings.

I don't think it's fine that's hundreds of parents drop their wild teenagers off to loiter on the weekends, or nightly during the summer months. Or that obnoxious and tacky do-nothings ruin what used to be rather civilized entertainment options, in my formerly safe and quiet hometown.

[gameguy56]

But I think their downtown will survive in a way that isn't the case with Berkley, Southfield, Clawson.

Which of these is not like the other.

[wolverine]

Birmingham's vacancies aren't chronic. Restaurants are tough to operate. I'm sure in a year they'll be filled up

[DTWflyer]

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/...nancial-advice

1 in 4 restaurants close or change ownership within their first year
3 in 5 restaurants do so within their first three years

This trend is consistent with the rates found in other industries for new businesses.

[rb336]

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/...nancial-advice

1 in 4 restaurants close or change ownership within their first year
3 in 5 restaurants do so within their first three years

This trend is consistent with the rates found in other industries for new businesses.

first rule for how to succeed in business? don't open a restaurant