More closings in Birmingham

[DTWflyer]

Zazios was doomed by its reputation and location. Word got around that this place was mediocre at best. People gave it the benefit of the doubt and tried it were never really wanting to go back.

[Bham1982]

Does the same go for office space? Seems like there is a ton of "for lease"/available signs all over newly constructed office space.

I can't think of any new office buildings in Birmingham, except for the one with Zazios.

In any case, I don't know anything about local office vacancy rates. But for retail vacancies, there don't appear to be many downtown, especially compared to a few years ago.

High end residential, however, is silly season in Birmingham. Downtown has a few 100% vacant, recently constructed super tacky "luxury" condos. Apparently the developers are shocked that no one is paying 2 million to live in a cheapy built condo, when they could buy a gigantic waterfront estate at that price here in Michigan.

[DTWflyer]

Does the same go for office space? Seems like there is a ton of "for lease"/available signs all over newly constructed office space.

Where exactly are you referring? As far as I know, there continues to be strong demand for office space in and around downtown Birmingham. They couldn't get enough of it last year, so perhaps a bunch just hit the market.
There are plenty of less than desirable spaces available east of Woodward along the Maple/Adams/Woodward Triangle District, but much of that needs updating and renovation.

[DTWflyer]

Agreed as there are some properties - residential, commerical, and office space that is priced unreasonably compared to what the market will bear.

There are some developers in Birmingham that have some outrageous asking prices, compared to neighboring communities.

One example is there is a vacant double lot near where I live that is currently selling for $350K. The houses next door can be bought for anywhere from $150-$250K.

[bailey]

Where exactly are you referring? As far as I know, there continues to be strong demand for office space in and around downtown Birmingham. They couldn't get enough of it last year, so perhaps a bunch just hit the market.
There are plenty of less than desirable spaces available east of Woodward along the Maple/Adams/Woodward Triangle District, but much of that needs updating and renovation.

Well there is that new building on Maple and Woodward that is not full. Totally anecdotal from my perspective, maybe I've just noticed more signs/adverts about open space.

[Bham1982]

Well there is that new building on Maple and Woodward that is not full. Totally anecdotal from my perspective, maybe I've just noticed more signs/adverts about open space.

They built that in the middle of the recession, which was weird to me. A wealth advisory firm, new to the area, took most of the space. But yeah, the building definitely has vacancies, and the retail space hasn't worked out either.

IMO, Birmingham is overvalued and way too much speculation. Probably not a good "bang for buck".

[DTWflyer]

Agreed. That whole Greenleaf Trust Building never has made a whole lot of sense to me. Granted, its better than the abandoned gas station that sat there for several years. Retail is never going to work in that location since it just does not get the foot traffic, and never will at the far end of town. Yes, its close to a parking garage, but no street level traffic. I know they keep discussing plans for the blocks on almost all sides - NW corner of Maple & Woodward, SE corner, and the vacant lot within the same block south of Peabody's.

Birmingham is way overvalued and on speculation. I noticed the tear-downs starting up for the season, particularly in the neighborhoods surrounding Pembrooke Park. It seems like they are going in and knocking down every one story ranch/bungalow on Derby & Pembrook street between last year and getting whats left this year.

I know of another instance of where an investor from New York has bought up about 20+ bungalows in Birmingham [[typically ones where the previous owner had it for like 30 years, and got it on the cheap), their brother is doing all the renovations, and they are flipping them on to the rental market. Basically buying up places fom $150-$200K and putting them on the rental market for $1700 - $2000/month.

[iheartthed]

These large nightclubs/restaurants don't necessarily make enough money to justify the enormous rents that are being charged for these spaces. Plus, some of them are lower-level/basement that aren't visible from the street.

The Palledium block has all sorts of issues and a stigma attached that does not necessarily draw in the demographics that live in Birmngham/Bloomfield.

I thought the game plan for downtown Birmingham was to attract a clientele beyond Birmingham/Bloomfield? Otherwise, how else could the expansion of Birmingham's entertainment district over the past two decades be supported? There certainly hasn't been an equivalent population boost in the area over the same period of time.

[rb336]

I just have little use for most of downtown Bham, and I was raised there. Those little vanity project boutiques are just too precious. the food is overpriced and over-rated at virtually every restaurant I've been to. and don't get me started on the plastic people I see there

[bailey]

I thought the game plan for downtown Birmingham was to attract a clientele beyond Birmingham/Bloomfield? Otherwise, how else could the expansion of Birmingham's entertainment district over the past two decades be supported? There certainly hasn't been an equivalent population boost in the area over the same period of time.

only if you define "clientele" old white women who lunch.

In 2011, the Dali Group was involved in a proposal to convert the Buca di Beppo and Arhaus space into a family entertainment center called Play Birmingham that would offer bowling, electronic golf, plus a restaurant and sweet shop. But city officials weren't real keen on the idea, raising concerns about the number of teenagers already hanging out in that area, and whether the operators could provide adequate supervision. When told it could not stay open past midnight on weekends, the plan was pulled off the table.

[iheartthed]

only if you define "clientele" old white women who lunch.

They certainly have been aiming for more than old white women who lunch. When I was last in Birmingham, some of the bar/restaurants I went to looked like they were attempting to recreate Manhattan's Meatpacking District in suburban Detroit.

[mwilbert]

Sometimes the retail ambitions of the business owners don't mesh well with the interests of the residents. As rents rise, only the highest-profit/sq ft uses can afford space, which are likely to be less diverse than the needs of the locals. For purposes of residents, 50 boutiques in a retail district are probably less useful than 48 boutiques and a hardware store. On the other hand, people are drawn from elsewhere by the boutiques, while a hardware store is of little use to them.

[Cliffy]

Birmingham really doesn't even have the dining appeal. Its just a few steakhouses and restaurants with fancy names that close every 2 years selling overpriced food. You walk in there and spend $25 for lunch and come out looking for the nearest Burger King because you're still hungry. I like the dining scene more in Ferndale, Royal Oak, Detroit. Its affordable, unique, and tasty.

[gnome]

right on Cliffy. the food is terrible and the portions small.

You might want to stay out of bham until they get with your standards. You know, protest the Man keeping you down with those 79 restaurants in town. No fair making you pay $25 hard-earned dollars when $5 bucks is more than enough. Shit man, I'm right there with you. Having to work all day for one meal is bogus; I say stay the heck away until they learn their lesson.

[Detroitnerd]

There is some really good stuff up there -- Social Kitchen & Bar, Townhouse Bistro, Bella Piatti, Commonwealth -- but it's all quite pricey. The fine dining crowd in Detroit just isn't large enough to support dozens and dozens of such places. And in a world that's only getting more unequal ...

[JBMcB]

To paraphrase Yogi, nobody goes to Birmingham to eat anymore, it's always too crowded.

[softailrider]

I thought the game plan for downtown Birmingham was to attract a clientele beyond Birmingham/Bloomfield? Otherwise, how else could the expansion of Birmingham's entertainment district over the past two decades be supported? There certainly hasn't been an equivalent population boost in the area over the same period of time.

Depends on what kind of clientele you're referring to. They sure don't want kids - unless they're being pushed in strollers. Those groups of young people hanging around on weekend nights during the summer are making people real nervous.

[Bham1982]

Depends on what kind of clientele you're referring to. They sure don't want kids - unless they're being pushed in strollers. Those groups of young people hanging around on weekend nights during the summer are making people real nervous.

There have been incidents, though. It's not just crochety old Republican scardy-cats.

My friend's car windows were smashed in, and there were some violent incidents.

No one wants a bunch of surly teenagers hanging out where they live. Teenagers suck.

On the other hand, city officials don't seem to understand that if you want your city to be a "regional entertainment destination" you're going to get rowdy kids too. It comes with the territory.

[DTWflyer]

Yep, you've got it. On one hand you have had the city planners trying to make Birmingham into a regional entertainment destination, but on the other side you have residents and a police force that do not want to deal with the issues that that bring in [[e.g., noise, traffic, vandalism, loitering, theft).

No one wants another situation like South or Blue Martini.

At times I feel like there is some concerted effort on the part of realtors, investors, and city planners to make Birmingham into something that isn't natural and goes against the laws of supply and demand. There is only a finite market and it sure seems like everything is on speculation.....

[Cliffy]

right on Cliffy. the food is terrible and the portions small.

You might want to stay out of bham until they get with your standards. You know, protest the Man keeping you down with those 79 restaurants in town. No fair making you pay $25 hard-earned dollars when $5 bucks is more than enough. Shit man, I'm right there with you. Having to work all day for one meal is bogus; I say stay the heck away until they learn their lesson.

The only ones staying in business are Big Rock, Flemings, and a couple other ones. The ones that are mentioned here just opened within the past few years and will probably be closed and replaced by the next new age "Fusion" restaurant. If you want a good steak, go down to fairway packing and pick up some dry aged steaks at $30 a piece and fire up the bbq.

[Hermod]

I had a thread in here late last year on Rochester, Birmingham, and Ferndale having the so-called "vibrant downtowns" with few vacancies yet the downtowns were full of precious little "shoppes" rather than shopping and if you really needed to find something, you didn't go to downtown Rochester, Birmingham, or Ferndale, you went to Hall Road.

[JBMcB]

The only ones staying in business are Big Rock, Flemings, and a couple other ones.

Like Streetside Seafood. And Dick O'Dows. And Phonecia. And Chen Chow. And Birmingham Sushi. And Tokyo Sushi. And New Bangkok. And Mitchell's. And Cameron's. And 220. And Hunter House. And Peabody's. And Sy Thai. And Greek Islands. And Kilwins. And Rugby Grille / Corner Bar. And Mountain King Chineese. And Salvatore. And Brooklyn Pizza. And Toast. And Elie's. And a couple chain places like Cosi, Leo's and Qdoba. Just in downtown.

But yeah, other than them, tons of turnover.

[rb336]

bottom line - for the most part you can get better food at better prices in a better atmosphere almost everywhere else

[stinkytofu]

Does Birmingham still have a ton of teenagers hanging out uptown at night?

I grew up in B'ham and went to Birmingham Public Schools from K-12. While I am thankful of the education I received and the upbringing I had, I am very happy I do not live there anymore.

[Bham1982]

Does Birmingham still have a ton of teenagers hanging out uptown at night?

Yep. The difference, though, is that there are now far more teenagers, and they're mostly "not from the community", or that's the impression people have. The two multiplexes and the various hangouts [[Panera, etc.) draw the teens.

I grew up in B'ham and went to Birmingham Public Schools from K-12. While I am thankful of the education I received and the upbringing I had, I am very happy I do not live there anymore.

Birmingham Schools are quite good, but they really aren't close to the top in Oakland County.

IMO there are plenty of reasons to live in Birmingham, but you can get the same or better education in many Oakland County communities, and always with lower taxes and far lower home prices.

Birmingham also seems to do a poor job keeping out nonresident children whose parents illegally claim a Birmingham address. Places like the Pointes are almost militaristic in their procedures, but it works. In Birmingham, they're lax, and nonresident parents know it.