Janet's Lunch is Closed

[jj84]

Those empty storefronts aren't all attributable to the start of paid parking. Most of it is due to developer Hakim Fakhoury bailing on developing all those storefronts after extended disputes with the city. That's the major reason. In comparison, the parking is miniscule.

Well the Paid Parking was a direct result of him. The DDA floated Bonds for the Parking Structures for his development. They were going to be paid back by the increase in taxes the development brought in. The Parking Structures got built but the rest of the project did not. So the DDA has to make those bond payments and the only way to do it was to charge for parking.

West Dearborn needs a total overhaul of the street structure to calm traffic and open up sidewalk space, it could be a very viable downtown area in less than 5 years. The issue is that Dearborn won't let it happen. The reason Dearborn has changed so much is people here got old. It's the same issue in East Dearborn -- I actually wonder what the planners and DDA do there -- they are some of the worst in Metro Detroit. The City really should be amazing and leadership over the past 20 years has caused it to fail old people dont like change so they vote for the same people.

As for Grosse Point - I think it has the same issue as Dearborn with old people, but that seems to be changing. The major issue I see is that the Points used to only have ghetto on the south - now it is on the west as well. How many GP shop at Eastland now -- How many used to go there 15 years ago.

[East Detroit]

We went to Janet's once. Sat at the counter on stools that seemed about 1 foot high. Food was average. Checked it out one time and that was good enough.

[EastsideAl]

Janet's is a loss for nostalgia value, but I haven't eaten there in a few years now. The food just got worse and worse, and the place got grungier and grungier. Here's hoping that the new owners keep enough of the nostalgia value to preserve what was special and charming about the place, but update and improve the rest.

Mulier's was a real loss, but perhaps I'm biased because my mother and my late grandmother bought their meat there for years, and the owners were distant relatives of ours. But they were the best place for meat in this part of town, and were great on handling special orders.

The hardware store situation is bizarre. That new Ace store is farther away and strangely set up. I miss having them on Kercheval. Pointe Hardware is only good for limited things, but they are an institution in the cabbage patch and I would hate to see them go. It would be like losing the Rustics [[and then where would my relatives go?).

I hope they don't really close Kercheval. A lot of Detroiters, like my mother, come that way regularly to go the the stores in GP. But then I guess keeping us out may be part of the plan...

[Bham1982]

So theres' a big Detroit Newsarticle detailing some pretty ambitious plans.

I don't know the Pointes well enough to have an opinion on whether this will work, but it seems to be heavily geared towards forming an impermeable wall between the Pointes and Detroit.

First, the Cottons are investing big bucks in the Cabbage Patch, with subsidized rents for college students [[a pretty obvious gambit to keep out black Detroters moving in from the East Side), and second, they plan to block Kercheval and create a pedestrian mall, which is odd.

First, how can you shut down a major street into an adjoining community, and second, where in Michigan has there ever been a successful pedestrian mall?

[cramerro]

So theres' a big Detroit Newsarticle detailing some pretty ambitious plans.

I don't know the Pointes well enough to have an opinion on whether this will work, but it seems to be heavily geared towards forming an impermeable wall between the Pointes and Detroit.

First, the Cottons are investing big bucks in the Cabbage Patch, with subsidized rents for college students [[a pretty obvious gambit to keep out black Detroters moving in from the East Side), and second, they plan to block Kercheval and create a pedestrian mall, which is odd.

First, how can you shut down a major street into an adjoining community, and second, where in Michigan has there ever been a successful pedestrian mall?

Link: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2.../BIZ/302280376

If you think about the physical arrangement, the blockage and ped mall really is mostly about removing through traffic and promoting this five-block stretch as a restaurant destination without through traffic. It's not like the plan includes an electric fence or moat... Detroit is still the same distance away. So people have to drive 1/4 mile out of the way to get around there... or just walk the same route as they would have.

Part of the article talks about closing the street for a ped mall and an office building... that would be a little extreme to literally build a building across the street. But, I guess, not surprising. Maybe I'm talking myself out of this.

[Bham1982]

If you think about the physical arrangement, the blockage and ped mall really is mostly about removing through traffic and promoting this five-block stretch as a restaurant destination without through traffic.

I think the pedestrian mall part is certainly unconventional. Pedestrian malls have a very poor history in the U.S., and I can't think of any working examples of what they hope to create.

I do like the restaurant focus, though. The east side of the metro area isn't exactly bursting with good restaurants, and you would think there's an underserved market.

[p69rrh51]

I think the pedestrian mall part is certainly unconventional. Pedestrian malls have a very poor history in the U.S., and I can't think of any working examples of what they hope to create.

I do like the restaurant focus, though. The east side of the metro area isn't exactly bursting with good restaurants, and you would think there's an underserved market.

Its underseived due the lake. Very few want to open up a restaurant/retail due to the fact the 50% of the theoretical patrons do not exist.

[Honky Tonk]

I don't know the Pointes well enough to have an opinion on whether this will work, but it seems to be heavily geared towards forming an impermeable wall between the Pointes and Detroit.

First, the Cottons are investing big bucks in the Cabbage Patch, with subsidized rents for college students [[a pretty obvious gambit to keep out black Detroters moving in from the East Side), and second, they plan to block Kercheval and create a pedestrian mall, which is odd.

Most of GPs crime comes in from Detroit.

I'm not so sure that's entirely the reason. From my observations, the Beaumont Medical Dynasty is rapidly expanding in that neck of the woods. I see a lot of "kids" [[ok, I'm old) in scrubs walking around that end of town. I think the hope or idea is to make that end some kind of medical residency/training section. IMO.

[rondinjp]

Well it appears the info regarding the True Value is accurate.

http://grossepointe.patch.com/articl...ead-in-village

[bailey]

Its underseived due the lake. Very few want to open up a restaurant/retail due to the fact the 50% of the theoretical patrons do not exist.

I think the "under served by restaurants" meme is really out of date. There are tons of restaurants from Vernier to Alter on Mack. There are two " restaurants of the year" on the Hill. [[The Hill & Dirty Dog) as well as a few other spots [[Nini, Jumps, soon to be Luxe in the old Lucy's). The Village has what? 5 restaurants and 4 Bagel/coffee places? Kercheval in the Park has a handful of places and getting more restaurants.

I mean throw in the random fast food options, pizza places, and Carry out places like Dish...as well as the private clubs and I wonder how many more restaurants this area will support.

[p69rrh51]

I think the "under served by restaurants" meme is really out of date. There are tons of restaurants from Vernier to Alter on Mack. There are two " restaurants of the year" on the Hill. [[The Hill & Dirty Dog) as well as a few other spots [[Nini, Jumps, soon to be Luxe in the old Lucy's). The Village has what? 5 restaurants and 4 Bagel/coffee places? Kercheval in the Park has a handful of places and getting more restaurants.

I mean throw in the random fast food options, pizza places, and Carry out places like Dish...as well as the private clubs and I wonder how many more restaurants this area will support.

True but how many decent restaurants are there? The Hills sucks the food is lousy[[especially since it changed hands and the owner's daughter has been clueless trying to manage the restaurant). The D.D. is excellent but you cannot talk during the music. Jumps is also decent but even at 50 I am usually the youngest by 20-30 years in the place. The Village Grille serves low grade dog food and Sidestreet is not much better. The Thai restaurant is tolerable. The clubs are limited to members and their guests only although they have been one of the biggest impediments to restaurant development for years. Plus how many mediocre/worthless Italian restaurants do you really want? Don't get me started on how bad most of the pizza is here[[but not all). When its all said and done there is not much variety which is why I am looking forward to the development in the Park, it could be a step in the right direction.

[Bham1982]

True but how many decent restaurants are there?

WASPs prefer tuna casserole, deviled eggs, and lots of bourbon nips for the afternoon foxhunts. Everything has to have globs of mayonaise.

[swingline]

Blocking off Kercheval and creating a pedestrian mall is a bad idea for so many reasons it's hard to know where to start.

First, as any planner will advise, this creature of mis-guided 20^th Century thinking only succeeds in creating thriving districts in very limited circumstances. E.g., very high volume tourist traffic, very high density [[think high-rise Manhattan, Chicago, Vancouver) residential populations nearby, or nearby captive populations like college students. GPP fits none of these categories. Kercheval Road is the equivalent of a small town Main Street. Small Town Main Street retail and restaurant owners need foot traffic AND vehicle traffic. Main Street customers don’t necessarily need to park right in front of the door, but they do need to scope out where the door is, and whether the business is open, etc. It’s basic shopping habit. A pedestrian mall on Kercheval Road in GPP anchored by an [[ugh!) medical office building is guaranteed for ghost town status within 5 years.


Next, if the Cotton family is as philanthropic as suggested, why aren’t they exploring how such a massive investment on Kercheval Road east of Alter Road could be a catalyst for development west of Alter Road, a few yards away in – Detroit. Why wall off their investment? Take advantage of the cheap land, work with Detroit Future City, find other partners and figure out what will succeed. Not suggesting a gift or a handout to Detroit, I’m suggesting the Cottons think bigger and better. Implementing a plan that blocks an important secondary collector road at the Detroit border with the ass-end of a medical building is short sighted and will guarantee that Kercheval Road from Alter Road to Conner Road is lost to the future urban forest.

Also, the politics of closing the street are awful. Do the Cottons think that security will be enhanced? Fat chance. And it will justifiably be seen as a “Keep Detroiters out” tactic. Creating a playground for white surburbanites, etc. The project will be permanently stigmatized. [[And really, what’s to stop [[code word alert) non-shoppers and non-diners from sauntering in, occupying benches and planters for hours on end and causing trouble.)

Also, even “desireable” customers to the area who are arriving from the west need to reach Kercheval somehow. If the street is blocked, are folks supposed to wind their way through the very narrow adjacent residential streets. All of these streets are so narrow that parking is only allowed on one side. Plenty of kids playing too. Exactly the kind of streets that don’t need more traffic.


Successful small town Main Streets require an intensity of use that can only be achieved through a combination of vehicle and pedestrian traffic. Closing Kercheval Road is a sure loser of an idea. Hopefully GPP decision makers understand this and quickly shoot down the idea of closing the street.

[Rochelle St.]

The Cottons are turning the vintage Standard gas station on Kercheval into a fine dining resturant. Nice to see a building like that being saved.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

[Zacha341]

If this is the place I am thinking about I went once. Seemed family-owned quaint, very friendly but food not remarkable.

What was remarkable was the fact that I didn't notice they did'nt take VISA/MASTER until the bill came. I offered a check as I had no cash and they we're so nice as I apologized for not noting their policy. I left a tip and oddly they never cashed the check!

[Honky Tonk]

If this is the place I am thinking about I went once. Seemed family-owned quaint, very friendly but food not remarkable.

What was remarkable was the fact that I didn't notice they did'nt take VISA/MASTER until the bill came. I offered a check as I had no cash and they we're so nice as I apologized for not noting their policy. I left a tip and oddly they never cashed the check!

Try THAT @ Legend's.....

[EastsideAl]

Most of GPs crime comes in from Detroit.

A significant amount of business also comes from Detroiters. I doubt if the population of the Pointes alone is enough to sustain the 3 retail areas on Kercheval. Especially so for GPP, since large numbers of people from further out in the Pointes are unlikely to travel that far west.In any event, I think closing off Kercheval to auto traffic [[but not to pedestrian traffic) is at least as likely to fail disastrously as it is to succeed.

I'm not so sure that's entirely the reason. From my observations, the Beaumont Medical Dynasty is rapidly expanding in that neck of the woods. I see a lot of "kids" [[ok, I'm old) in scrubs walking around that end of town. I think the hope or idea is to make that end some kind of medical residency/training section. IMO.

A big part of the problem is that GP skews so old, which makes sustaining restaurants, bars, etc. difficult [[not to mention any reasonably fashionable shopping). Anything that brings younger people with a little money in, and helps them with a reasonably priced place to live, would definitely be an improvement.

Of course, as proposed by Swingline above, with the near-emptying out of the neighborhood, positive development on the other side of Alter would be even more beneficial. But I guess that will have to wait for economically better, and more tolerant and less fearful, times.

[p69rrh51]

Blocking off Kercheval and creating a pedestrian mall is a bad idea for so many reasons it's hard to know where to start.

First, as any planner will advise, this creature of mis-guided 20^th Century thinking only succeeds in creating thriving districts in very limited circumstances. E.g., very high volume tourist traffic, very high density [[think high-rise Manhattan, Chicago, Vancouver) residential populations nearby, or nearby captive populations like college students. GPP fits none of these categories. Kercheval Road is the equivalent of a small town Main Street. Small Town Main Street retail and restaurant owners need foot traffic AND vehicle traffic. Main Street customers don’t necessarily need to park right in front of the door, but they do need to scope out where the door is, and whether the business is open, etc. It’s basic shopping habit. A pedestrian mall on Kercheval Road in GPP anchored by an [[ugh!) medical office building is guaranteed for ghost town status within 5 years.


Next, if the Cotton family is as philanthropic as suggested, why aren’t they exploring how such a massive investment on Kercheval Road east of Alter Road could be a catalyst for development west of Alter Road, a few yards away in – Detroit. Why wall off their investment? Take advantage of the cheap land, work with Detroit Future City, find other partners and figure out what will succeed. Not suggesting a gift or a handout to Detroit, I’m suggesting the Cottons think bigger and better. Implementing a plan that blocks an important secondary collector road at the Detroit border with the ass-end of a medical building is short sighted and will guarantee that Kercheval Road from Alter Road to Conner Road is lost to the future urban forest.

Also, the politics of closing the street are awful. Do the Cottons think that security will be enhanced? Fat chance. And it will justifiably be seen as a “Keep Detroiters out” tactic. Creating a playground for white surburbanites, etc. The project will be permanently stigmatized. [[And really, what’s to stop [[code word alert) non-shoppers and non-diners from sauntering in, occupying benches and planters for hours on end and causing trouble.)

Also, even “desireable” customers to the area who are arriving from the west need to reach Kercheval somehow. If the street is blocked, are folks supposed to wind their way through the very narrow adjacent residential streets. All of these streets are so narrow that parking is only allowed on one side. Plenty of kids playing too. Exactly the kind of streets that don’t need more traffic.


Successful small town Main Streets require an intensity of use that can only be achieved through a combination of vehicle and pedestrian traffic. Closing Kercheval Road is a sure loser of an idea. Hopefully GPP decision makers understand this and quickly shoot down the idea of closing the street.

Swingline I agree with you about closeing Kercheval, the pedestrian mall and parking. On the other hand I think the Cottons are not philanthropic they are looking to get a good return on their investment. I do not see that happening to the west of Alter, maybe you have a few suggestions for a way to profit from development in that area?
As for any upscale project exclusivity it what makes it work, everyone cannot be included.
As for getting to Kercheval 99.9% of those who will be patronizing the area from other parts of town will arrive from the Cadiuex or Moross exits off I-94 or from E. Jefferson. NOBODY except for those living just across the border uses Kercheval to enter GP fromt the west.

[Honky Tonk]

A significant amount of business also comes from Detroiters. I doubt if the population of the Pointes alone is enough to sustain the 3 retail areas on Kercheval. Especially so for GPP, since large numbers of people from further out in the Pointes are unlikely to travel that far west.In any event, I think closing off Kercheval to auto traffic [[but not to pedestrian traffic) is at least as likely to fail disastrously as it is to succeed.



A big part of the problem is that GP skews so old, which makes sustaining restaurants, bars, etc. difficult [[not to mention any reasonably fashionable shopping). Anything that brings younger people with a little money in, and helps them with a reasonably priced place to live, would definitely be an improvement.

Of course, as proposed by Swingline above, with the near-emptying out of the neighborhood, positive development on the other side of Alter would be even more beneficial. But I guess that will have to wait for economically better, and more tolerant and less fearful, times.

Believe me Al, I'd LOVE to see something positive FINALLY start developing West of Alter.

[EastsideAl]

Believe me Al, I'd LOVE to see something positive FINALLY start developing West of Alter.

I certainly know you would Tonk... just sayin' though.

[TKshreve]

Honky Tonk
What's "Harry's"? On Clifford?

Harry's is a breakfast/lunch/dinner restaurant located on Mack just north of Somerset. It's been there for years.

http://goo.gl/maps/Gj6ly

https://plus.google.com/109741106041...ut?gl=us&hl=en

[rondinjp]

Believe me Al, I'd LOVE to see something positive FINALLY start developing West of Alter.

Supposedly, the Cottons did try to acquire land west of alter [[i.e., Detroit) but were told to go pound sand. Their original plan was to try to develop on both sides and make it into a thriving district.

[Honky Tonk]

Harry's is a breakfast/lunch/dinner restaurant located on Mack just north of Somerset. It's been there for years.

http://goo.gl/maps/Gj6ly

https://plus.google.com/109741106041...ut?gl=us&hl=en

Thanx TK, even closer to home. I'll give it a try on my next breakfast trip.

[bailey]

True but how many decent restaurants are there? The Hills sucks the food is lousy[[especially since it changed hands and the owner's daughter has been clueless trying to manage the restaurant). The D.D. is excellent but you cannot talk during the music. Jumps is also decent but even at 50 I am usually the youngest by 20-30 years in the place. The Village Grille serves low grade dog food and Sidestreet is not much better. The Thai restaurant is tolerable. The clubs are limited to members and their guests only although they have been one of the biggest impediments to restaurant development for years. Plus how many mediocre/worthless Italian restaurants do you really want? Don't get me started on how bad most of the pizza is here[[but not all). When its all said and done there is not much variety which is why I am looking forward to the development in the Park, it could be a step in the right direction.

I don't know that you could reasonably say the food at the Hill "sucks". I haven't noticed any drop off. The menu has changed a little, but "suck"? c'mon.

I'm with you on most of the rest. DD has started to relax a bit during the week though. Village grill has NEVER served anything by semi- decent diner food and its been around for 30[[?) years. it's a casual place to catch a ball game have some beers and eat greasy food...or a place to take kids. Not for a culinary experience. It's a "Big Boy"..or a Rams Horn equivalent and it fills a niche.

I don't understand it either, but for some reason Jumps is an local institution. but again, apparently it has it's niche.

City Kitchen is good and thriving. Da'Eduardos is always good. Cafe Nini is tiny, but very nice. Noble Pig is really good. Blue Fin is expanding.... I'm happy to see the new additions to the Park [[and the new stuff coming in the Village and on the Hill) , but I think you're giving short shrift to what is around now.

[p69rrh51]

I don't know that you could reasonably say the food at the Hill "sucks". I haven't noticed any drop off. The menu has changed a little, but "suck"? c'mon.

I'm with you on most of the rest. DD has started to relax a bit during the week though. Village grill has NEVER served anything by semi- decent diner food and its been around for 30[[?) years. it's a casual place to catch a ball game have some beers and eat greasy food...or a place to take kids. Not for a culinary experience. It's a "Big Boy"..or a Rams Horn equivalent and it fills a niche.

I don't understand it either, but for some reason Jumps is an local institution. but again, apparently it has it's niche.

City Kitchen is good and thriving. Da'Eduardos is always good. Cafe Nini is tiny, but very nice. Noble Pig is really good. Blue Fin is expanding.... I'm happy to see the new additions to the Park [[and the new stuff coming in the Village and on the Hill) , but I think you're giving short shrift to what is around now.

Yes the food SUCKS especially for the price you pay, the Hill has not severed a good meal in years and has been living off its "reputation" for quite a long time. Everyone I know who has been a long time Hill patron has been complaining about the bad food. City Kitchen has good food, but has skiddish service once and awhile but overall a nice place. Da'Eduardos is in the worthless Italian category, but Cafe Nini is quite nice and they owned by the same family. I wish Nini could expand a bit. I have yet to try the Noble Pig. The Blue Fin is good and I hope expansion to the death zone does not hurt them.
As for giving the short shift for what we have described one needs a car and several minutes to get around to the number of restaurants, while more[[in number) and far better restaurants are all within walking distance in Ferndale to name one area. I am very interested to see what happens to the old Wright-Kay building in the Village, I have always thought that the location would make a great spot for a restaurant.
Bailey when is comes to fine dining you are at a loss as my wife is a far superior chef compared to the chefs at all the establishments mentioned here and my idea of good fare is quite different than most.