Has Detroit Common Council taken any budget reductions?...

[Al Publican]

Curious if city council members still have city provided cars. What about reductions in council salaries and staff budgets?

If I recall right, most of the 20 biggest cities in the council have part time city councils.

What is the current salary of a Common Council member?

[313WX]

Their cuts have been miniscule.

Then of course you have one council member receiving a pension as well.

I understand getting what's owed to you, but at the same tme it irks me that you're double-dipping in the city's funds while rubber stamping all sorts of austerity on the folks that elected you.

[corktownyuppie]

Their cuts have been miniscule.

Then of course you have one council member receiving a pension as well.

I understand getting what's owed to you, but at the same tme it irks me that you're double-dipping in the city's funds while rubber stamping all sorts of austerity on the folks that elected you.

I'll stand with you on that.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Why would the city council cut any of their own budgets or perks? They're royalty -- or so they think.

[bailey]

In their defense...what would it matter? It's maybe 5? 10 million there that they could cut if they cut right to the bone?

Hundreds of millions in structural deficits and 15 billion in debt, if the CC fires all staff and turns in the keys to the city vehicle, that isn't going to do anything. At best it would be good PR, but really, like anything else done outside of bankruptcy, it's still just rearranging deck chairs.

[Honky Tonk]

In their defense...what would it matter? It's maybe 5? 10 million there that they could cut if they cut right to the bone?

Hundreds of millions in structural deficits and 15 billion in debt, if the CC fires all staff and turns in the keys to the city vehicle, that isn't going to do anything. At best it would be good PR, but really, like anything else done outside of bankruptcy, it's still just rearranging deck chairs.

The posts on here crack me up. [[NOT yours in particular) Every couple of days, someone posts something about cutbacks, and the general reply is, "That's only $5 mil, or $6 mil, or $13 mil. I bet if you started adding all the "mils" up, it would start turning into a significant number.

[bailey]

The posts on here crack me up. [[NOT yours in particular) Every couple of days, someone posts something about cutbacks, and the general reply is, "That's only $5 mil, or $6 mil, or $13 mil. I bet if you started adding all the "mils" up, it would start turning into a significant number.

No, I get it and I agree. However, my point is that the time for tinkering at the margins is long past. Staff cuts here and there... fringe benefit cuts here and there... are all well and good, but Detroit is never going to right itself making marginal tweaks. Wholesale across the board change needs to happen and it's likely not going to outside of BK or an FM with BK like powers.

[Gistok]

The posts on here crack me up. [[NOT yours in particular) Every couple of days, someone posts something about cutbacks, and the general reply is, "That's only $5 mil, or $6 mil, or $13 mil. I bet if you started adding all the "mils" up, it would start turning into a significant number.

Honky Tonk... your comment reminded me of the comment of the late great Illinois US Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen about the federal government spending... "a billion here and a billion there... and pretty soon it adds up to real money!"...

[JJD]

In their defense...what would it matter? It's maybe 5? 10 million there that they could cut if they cut right to the bone?

Hundreds of millions in structural deficits and 15 billion in debt, if the CC fires all staff and turns in the keys to the city vehicle, that isn't going to do anything. At best it would be good PR, but really, like anything else done outside of bankruptcy, it's still just rearranging deck chairs.

What better do they have to do except rearrange the chairs? I think cutting their own staff and frivoulous expenses like cars and drivers would be great for PR, and show they are willing to share the sacrifices required by the working rank and file. I also think our city council panders to the loud few instead of the quiet majority who don't have time to spend all day at the CAY building. 5 or 10 million is a ton of money. What if they used that 5million to hire people and collect the 200 million in owed taxes?

Samll savings add up. 5million here, 5 million from cutting the same waste from the Mayor's personal staff, and you start seeing changes. You can expect to find a single savings idea that will wipe out the debt fro years of reckless waste. I agree bankruptcy is in our near future, I just wish Council would do their job to help the city instead of standing in the way of progress.

[Wesley Mouch]

In their defense...what would it matter? It's maybe 5? 10 million there that they could cut if they cut right to the bone?

Hundreds of millions in structural deficits and 15 billion in debt, if the CC fires all staff and turns in the keys to the city vehicle, that isn't going to do anything. At best it would be good PR, but really, like anything else done outside of bankruptcy, it's still just rearranging deck chairs.

Sorry to strongly disagree. This type of thinking is precisely why Detroit is in the mess that it is.

This isn't unlike the 'broken windows' theory.

If something is wrong, you fix it. That's it. No excuses.

[bailey]

Sorry to strongly disagree. This type of thinking is precisely why Detroit is in the mess that it is.

This isn't unlike the 'broken windows' theory.

If something is wrong, you fix it. That's it. No excuses.

Well, it depends on if anyone on council thinks anything they do is "wrong". Judging by the time many of them have sat in their chair, all the feedback they need they get at the ballot box.

If any of them felt accountable to the voters, perhaps they'd make meaningless PR cuts, like the staff...etc. Until the usual suspects get thrown out on their ass for standing the way of those cuts, no one is going to give a damn.

I'm saying that in terms of hills to die on...whether a few million come off CC's budget is pretty meaningless.

[kenp]

I'm saying that in terms of hills to die on...whether a few million come off CC's budget is pretty meaningless.

Sounds just like my wife when we argue about money.

[Wesley Mouch]

Well, it depends on if anyone on council thinks anything they do is "wrong". Judging by the time many of them have sat in their chair, all the feedback they need they get at the ballot box.

If any of them felt accountable to the voters, perhaps they'd make meaningless PR cuts, like the staff...etc. Until the usual suspects get thrown out on their ass for standing the way of those cuts, no one is going to give a damn.

I'm saying that in terms of hills to die on...whether a few million come off CC's budget is pretty meaningless.

Meaningless PR cuts. Wow. And on we go. I'm not sure even bankruptcy will change that attitude. Wow.

[bailey]

Meaningless PR cuts. Wow. And on we go. I'm not sure even bankruptcy will change that attitude. Wow.

They are meaningless when it's a drop in the bucket and there are much bigger cuts necessary. hundreds of millions in structural deficits. 15 billion in long term debt. 60 cents of every dollar in revenue going to salary or pension obligations.... cutting a few staffers pay by 10% is nothing but PR. oooh, look at us being all austere, we can't seem to figure out how to get belle isle offloaded to the state to save 6 mill a year, but yea couple of hundred thou saved on staffing is REALLY gonna turn the city around.

[kenp]

I have always thought that less pay would be a benefit to Detroit. Many who are on council are there because its a good paying gig. I want people on council that actually care about the city.

[DetroitPlanner]

I have always thought that less pay would be a benefit to Detroit. Many who are on council are there because its a good paying gig. I want people on council that actually care about the city.

To be fair, its not such a good paying gig any longer. 15-20 years ago maybe it was. You could make the same amount as a high level staffer and not have to worry so much about losing your job [[unless you decide to take an appointment).

[JJD]

unfortunately, I think the "good paying" part of the job comes from the "extras" some are recieving in exchange for their votes, not that $80k salary is a bad paying job, plus your friends, sorry I mean staff, get up to $100k too. I think that is enough incentive for greedy self-serving people to stay on council as opposed to those trying to better the city.

[Gistok]

What is the current salary of a Common Council member?

Hey Al... you're "dating" yourself... I haven't heard it called "Common Council" since "DSR" days....

[kenp]

What is the current salary of a Common Council member?

http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detr.../Pay-for-Pols/

[bailey]

http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detr.../Pay-for-Pols/

there are several major cities on that list with part time CC. I would think that is a great place to start. I mean if Dallas can be run by part timers making 37.5k, Detroit certainly can. however, if you think the council would do that itself, ya'll cra-cra. [[also I have no idea what the charter has to say about it.)

[rex]

ha.
CC is just pissed. Their predecessors were able to steal with impunity and their predecessors predecessors were able to steal with impunity. Their predecessors predecessors predecessors were able to steal with impunity.

its their turn in the catbird seat. Their turn to get fat and happy and hook their families and friends up but their every move is under the microscope.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Yep, totally on point.

I will add a postscript to my earlier post. In addition to attacking those 500-pound gorillas, we also need to attack the day-to-day stuff, including the City Council.

The latter will be important and is the "cigarette" aspect of it. That involves cutting city council staff, DWSD restructering, a Belle Isle lease, reforming the property tax system, and tons of other things along those lines.

The former is the "throat" aspect of it. Unless we attack pensions/health care and the bondholder aspect of it, we can fix all of the short-term stuff and it won't mean a thing.

All of these aspects are necessary to fix the problems, but anything short of all of them are not sufficient to fix the problems. You have to look at it like oxygen, food, and water. It is necessary that we get oxygen each day. It is also necessary that we get food each day, as well as water. But we will not survive unless we take care of all aspects that are necessary.

[fanniemae]

I think Snyder is on a mission to get an EM in there. As long as the courts don't muck it up, we will have an EM by the end of the year. IMO, Detroit needs one. Stop the fools on the council, they are a big part of the problem. Bing is clueless.

[mam2009]

I really hate when folks go on a rant about totally incorrect facts. In 2010 I was one of those City Council staffers. I have previous posts on here telling other posters that Council has cut its budget several times in the last 3 years. So much so that the staffs of all offices & administration were cut significantly. Real people lost jobs, benefits, houses, retirement savings, cars, etc. Stop living in this alternate universe, please. Council persons & remaining staff got furlough days just like everybody else -- in fact, they took them FIRST before union workers did. And I said before that it barely gets covered in the press when Council cuts its own budget because folks just like to hop on the bandwagon & bitch about nonsense. Yes, a small minority of Council staffers did/do have big paychecks, but they also didn't/don't get fringe benefits [[those pesky legacy costs that significantly add to the City's liabilities). The Council office where I worked was downsized by 50%, but I know there are still those posters who will say, ” So what? Your staff was probably too big anyway” or who just flat out will think i'm lying. A couple weeks ago there was a blip in the paper i'm sure about the City Council approving furlough days for non-union executive & LEGISLATIVE employees. Who do you think that is? Since that Pew study the City Coucil members' own salaries were cut by 10%. We rationed copy paper & shook our toner cartridges & bought our own office supplies just like every other City of Detroit worker because the City can't provide what we need to get the job done. Stop bitching about what you clearly either don't know or choose to ignore because it doesn't fit in your narrow paradigm of what you THINK is a bunch of ignorant fools who are oblivious to and immune from feeling the effects of the City's financial crisis. NO DETROIT CITY COUNCIL CUT ITS OWN BUDGET IN AT LEAST THE LAST TWENTY YEARS UNTIL THE CURRENT CITY COUNCIL WHICH HAS CUT ITS BUDGET AT LEAST THREE TIMES & IMPOSED FURLOUGH DAYS AT LEAST TWICE. IF A ”STAFFER” ON CONTRACT FOR $50,000 [[no fringes) gets a 10% cut, that staffer then gets $45000. AND WHEN THAT STAFFER THEN GETS FURLOUGH DAYS IMPOSED ONCE EVERY OTHER WEEK, THAT EQUATES TO ANOTHER 10% CUT, SO NOW THAT SY STAFFER GETS $40,500 [no medical, pension & don't forget to take out taxes). That scenario has played out at least twice now both inside Council offices & with all City employees [[not to mention the ones who were just flat out laid off or contracts not renewed).

[kenp]

Real people lost jobs, benefits, houses, retirement savings, cars, etc. Stop living in this alternate universe, please. Council persons & remaining staff got furlough days just like everybody else.

The City Council and staff should not be about having a job and making a living. It should be a part time nominal fee position.