Detroit News: Half of Detroit property owners don’t pay taxes

**illwill** · February-21-13, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

There are no hairs to split. One either owns the property or they don't. If they do, they pay the taxes sooner or later or lose it. If one is delinquent since 2007, and I'll assume you have seen the record at city hall to back that up, he/she can be foreclosed. But until they are foreclosed they still own it and presumably could catch up.

If the governmental body is so dysfunctional that it doesn't foreclose [would never happen here of course

] that is a different story, maybe the real story. But being delinquent does not = "Property Owners Don’t Pay Taxes" as the headline misleads.

I am not sure of the law at this moment but it used to possible to be perpetually up to three years behind -- pay off that third year before three years expire and you are still alive for another year. Of course a stiff interest is piled on.

C'mon Lowell-

Do you really believe what you're saying? Do you REALLY think these people who are behind have any intentions of catching up and then continue making payments? I have relatives that live in Detroit and NEVER pay taxes and the city & county has threatened to take the house [[they own the properties and land out right) yet they've been there forever. They aren't worried about anyone coming to take their properties because "I guess" no one wants the liability.

**Novine** · February-21-13, 08:58 PM

"One way it could be done is that if you challenge the assessment and the city insists on the assessment, then they have to buy it. If they agree to lower the assessment, they get three tries to get it low enough so that you do not challenge the assessment. At the point the city says they will not go lower, then they have to buy it if you insist."

Yup, stupid.

**SWMAP** · February-21-13, 09:09 PM

Lowell, of course I have seen the tax record I speak of - but I didn't have to go to city hall. Tax records are public records, as you know. Just go to the Wayne County web site and go to the pay tax page and punch in an address to learn if the property tax is paid or not.
Look up some addresses and you will be disheartened by how many people are using city services but not paying for them, landlord and tenants alike.

**Cliffy** · February-21-13, 10:57 PM

I wonder how many people would be left in Detroit if all the people who are bailing on their taxes got evicted.

I'd be real curious about the water bills in Detroit. I bet the amount of people paying the water bill is probably in line with the amount of people paying taxes.

**313WX** · February-21-13, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

I'd be real curious about the water bills in Detroit. I bet the amount of people paying the water bill is probably in line with the amount of people paying taxes.

The flaw with that comparison is that water can be shut off.

If someone calls 911, they can't be denied an ambulance.

**illwill** · February-21-13, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

I wonder how many people would be left in Detroit if all the people who are bailing on their taxes got evicted.

I'd be real curious about the water bills in Detroit. I bet the amount of people paying the water bill is probably in line with the amount of people paying taxes.

My family members who have not paid taxes in ages, that I mentioned in the post above are trying to leave the cityas well. They are planning to walk away from their home and move to Ypsilanti or Atlanta with family when they're able.

I posted a while back that they wanted to hand the house over to me but Ideclined. Because I know for a fact that ANYONE who owns ANY property in Detroit ARE and will be the one's carrying the weight for the deadbeats [[my relatives). And I refuse to do that. I work too hard to support dead weight.

**Lowell** · February-21-13, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Lowell, of course I have seen the tax record I speak of - but I didn't have to go to city hall. Tax records are public records, as you know. Just go to the Wayne County web site and go to the pay tax page and punch in an address to learn if the property tax is paid or not.
Look up some addresses and you will be disheartened by how many people are using city services but not paying for them, landlord and tenants alike.

Just my point. The story still isn't "Detroit Property Owners Don’t Pay Taxes"; it's about a city that doesn't enforce payment. The money is there. Got get it. Ditto for code violations.

**softailrider** · February-22-13, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Just my point. The story still isn't "Detroit Property Owners Don’t Pay Taxes"; it's about a city that doesn't enforce payment. The money is there. Got get it. Ditto for code violations.

The money is where? Get it from who? The majority of property tax paying middle class are long gone. They left decades ago - who exactly is left that the city or county can collect from?

**guito13** · February-22-13, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"One way it could be done is that if you challenge the assessment and the city insists on the assessment, then they have to buy it. If they agree to lower the assessment, they get three tries to get it low enough so that you do not challenge the assessment. At the point the city says they will not go lower, then they have to buy it if you insist."

Yup, stupid.

Seems like that type of though is a direct consequence of the decades of entitlement behavior in the area....

**DetroitPlanner** · February-22-13, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

The money is where? Get it from who? The majority of property tax paying middle class are long gone. They left decades ago - who exactly is left that the city or county can collect from?

There is a huge number of properties that are either owned by landlords or banks. They should be paying their property taxes. Banks have zero incentive to do this as many of the properties they now own they cannot sell at a good price and it would be more advantageous to lose them to the tax man. I suspect that many of the landlords are now looking for ways of dumping their city properties as well and moving on to inner-tier suburbs where they will just commit the same acts to cities like Warren, Redford, Dearborn, Harper Woods........ It would be easier for them to just collect rents till the gubmint takes away their properties and kick their tennants to the curb.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-22-13, 10:24 AM

I think it's BS that people in Detroit get to stay in their homes for not paying their taxes, and anywhere in the suburbs, they can't wait to foreclose on your _ss if you get behind.

**Zacha341** · February-22-13, 10:36 AM

Umm, people DO loose their homes in Detroit eventually for not paying taxes, but it is a far, FAR slower process due to bureaucratic dysfunction of city hall.

Shollin · February-22-13, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

There is a huge number of properties that are either owned by landlords or banks. They should be paying their property taxes. Banks have zero incentive to do this as many of the properties they now own they cannot sell at a good price and it would be more advantageous to lose them to the tax man. I suspect that many of the landlords are now looking for ways of dumping their city properties as well and moving on to inner-tier suburbs where they will just commit the same acts to cities like Warren, Redford, Dearborn, Harper Woods........ It would be easier for them to just collect rents till the gubmint takes away their properties and kick their tennants to the curb.

I work in the foreclosure department of a bank and the bank does in fact pay property tax. The bank will pay the property tax whether they own it or the homeowner is in there and not paying taxes.

**softailrider** · February-22-13, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

There is a huge number of properties that are either owned by landlords or banks. They should be paying their property taxes. Banks have zero incentive to do this as many of the properties they now own they cannot sell at a good price and it would be more advantageous to lose them to the tax man. I suspect that many of the landlords are now looking for ways of dumping their city properties as well and moving on to inner-tier suburbs where they will just commit the same acts to cities like Warren, Redford, Dearborn, Harper Woods........ It would be easier for them to just collect rents till the gubmint takes away their properties and kick their tennants to the curb.

Landlords for the most part are not paying property taxes in the city. If you own a house with a market value of 5000.00 why would you pay property taxes of 2500.00 [[using round numbers) per year? The county then slaps a lien on the property after a while and the only time it makes a difference is when there's an insurance claim, a title search is done and the county shows up. Then watch how fast the owner brings the taxes up to date.

**softailrider** · February-22-13, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I work in the foreclosure department of a bank and the bank does in fact pay property tax. The bank will pay the property tax whether they own it or the homeowner is in there and not paying taxes.

I believe your particular bank does, I don't believe every bank or mortgage company does the same.

**Goose** · February-22-13, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Enough with the insults, asswipe.

One way it could be done is that if you challenge the assessment and the city insists on the assessment, then they have to buy it. If they agree to lower the assessment, they get three tries to get it low enough so that you do not challenge the assessment. At the point the city says they will not go lower, then they have to buy it if you insist.

i agree with the buy back under different terms... if the assessor says the house is worth 100K and you say the house is worth 50K, and the assessor doesn't drop the assessment to 50K, then the assessor should buy the home not at the assessed 100K but at the lower 50K. This way the homeowner isn't trying to inflate the value and if the assessor doen't believe the owners low assessment, than the city is certainly getting a deal on the property.... this way it keeps both the owner and the city honest.... there would be a balance to actual assessments based on real value

**Novine** · February-22-13, 10:59 PM

"this way it keeps both the owner and the city honest"

The city can't afford to purchase any properties and it doesn't need any more properties that it can't manage to go with the thousands of parcels its already been stuck with through tax sales, etc. Knowing this, property owners could go in and demand that the city reduce their assessments to next to nothing knowing that there's no likelihood that the city's going to purchase their property. The land speculators would love this system. It would let the Michael Kellys of the world get land for next-to-nothing at a tax sale, force the assessment down to almost nothing and be able to hold the property forever without fear of losing it at a future tax sale. A great way to destroy the city's tax base in no time at all.

**softailrider** · February-23-13, 12:33 AM

Remember the little guy who went to work and made 20 bucks an hour, put in overtime if he could get it, supported his family, paid his property taxes, did what he was supposed to do? Don't ever forget, those are the guys that the government lives off. The problem is, he doesn't live in Detroit anymore. Let's put about a half a million of those guys back into the city, I'll bet the conversation will become a lot more uplifting.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-23-13, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Umm, people DO loose their homes in Detroit eventually for not paying taxes, but it is a far, FAR slower process due to bureaucratic dysfunction of city hall.

I know there are people that are still living in their homes that haven't paid 08, 09 or 2010 taxes. So, you're telling me it takes that long to foreclose on them?

**stasu1213** · February-23-13, 09:18 AM

What companys and businessses who had not paid their taxes owed to the city.

**corktownyuppie** · February-23-13, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

What companys and businessses who had not paid their taxes owed to the city.

[[1) Businesses and companies are not exempt from this either. If they owe, they should be made to pay. Now.
[[2) If the number of companies who haven't paid their taxes were above 10-20%, I would be surprise.
[[3) Maybe we should eliminate a property tax completely and just replace it with extra sales taxes? Not sure what the best solution is here.

**313WX** · February-23-13, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

[[1) Businesses and companies are not exempt from this either. If they owe, they should be made to pay. Now.
[[2) If the number of companies who haven't paid their taxes were above 10-20%, I would be surprise.
[[3) Maybe we should eliminate a property tax completely and just replace it with extra sales taxes? Not sure what the best solution is here.

I would rather be in favor of eliminating the income tax and imposing a sales tax [[similar to Chicago). Maybe matching the state's 6%? Essentially, tax everything but non-restaurant food and prescription drugs.

That would generate a lot more revenue from the suburban tourists who visit downtown establishments. Plus, Detroiters who work low wage jobs would have more money in their pocket. One major turn off from living in/commuting into Detroit is the income tax, at least when one get little to no return on their tax dollars.

Also, perhaps we can increase the taxes casinos pay to the city. Ohio's casinos pay way more in taxes than Detroit's casinos.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-23-13, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

[[1) Businesses and companies are not exempt from this either. If they owe, they should be made to pay. Now.
[[2) If the number of companies who haven't paid their taxes were above 10-20%, I would be surprise.
[[3) Maybe we should eliminate a property tax completely and just replace it with extra sales taxes? Not sure what the best solution is here.

I think we need to make a distinction between 'owe taxes' and 'are late paying'.

Apparently, its possible and even legal to 'owe taxes'. Thus, there's nothing wrong.

The real problem is that the law allows delinquency without consequence. We see how that works in other areas. If we want everyone to be current, it just takes a state law to do so. But if done, there's be crying about taking houses from people who are just down on their luck. Shall we only apply this law to the rich?

**softailrider** · February-23-13, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

I know there are people that are still living in their homes that haven't paid 08, 09 or 2010 taxes. So, you're telling me it takes that long to foreclose on them?

You have worthless property, in many cases rotted away from lack of any kind of upkeep, in terrible areas surround by more worthless property. A total liability, not an asset in any sense of the word. You seem surprised that it takes years to lower the boom or it doesn't happen at all. What's the hurry anyway?

**Richard** · February-23-13, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Remember the little guy who went to work and made 20 bucks an hour, put in overtime if he could get it, supported his family, paid his property taxes, did what he was supposed to do? Don't ever forget, those are the guys that the government lives off. The problem is, he doesn't live in Detroit anymore. Let's put about a half a million of those guys back into the city, I'll bet the conversation will become a lot more uplifting.

You cannot move those back into the city it kinda kills the whole shrink the city aspect.

It is kinda interesting the whole home owner aspect,I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere that Detroit had the most home owners per block at one time,other city's had renters who coud not afford the home owner aspect which includes maintenance,taxes and insurance.

If you could not afford all of those things that came with home ownership then you rented.

As far as the actual tax structure concerning the elderly which I am not sure of there ,I am more familiar with tax structures that are reduced for those who served in the military,even more if they were wounded in service,over 65 and retired,and a few others or are capped at the rate when they retire as they will be going on fixed income.

I am hoping this whole crack down on being able to repurchase your house at the tax sale for less then you owed curbs a lot of the speculators,but I have not seen any results of that as of yet which would be interesting.

But I would agree that they need to slam landlords,and speculators hard then be lighter on homesteaded properties or even charge a lessor millage as they would have a more solid stake in their neighborhood.

But it all goes back to the top ,I wonder if one owns a large property in the city if say maybe pay $5000 to the right person your property can kinda disappear from the tax rolls or maybe get a bit lost?It seems as though it would be worth it and easy enough to do in all of the mayhem.