Any Witnesses to the Wildings, 02/09/2013?

Shollin · February-10-13, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Is Eastpointe really a suburb? --

--

It hasn't completely been swallowed by Detroit yet. It still has a reasonable crime rate. It's imminent though. These innocent, victim felons have overtaken Harper Woods and I think they have their eyes set on Eastpointe and South Warren. Somehow St Clair Shores has managed to resist the invasion.

**illwill** · February-10-13, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Well, I don't have a lot of money, and right now I'm renting from my cousin because I couldn't even qualify for a real lease. I was actually right on the cusp of living in Woodbridge, but then the landlord found a better candidate.

What can I say?

Actually, when I go to downtown or midtown, I feel very envious. I wish I had the mobility to live and work somewhere like that. Maybe that's why I can empathize a bit with those teenagers in the original story, even if I don't condone crime.

It doesn't matter if you live in the city or burbs. That talk is overrated. And I hope your situation improves.

**Gannon** · February-10-13, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I'm not buying that second paragraph at all. I'll place all the blame on those teenagers. You've got to be held accountable for your actions, they're not infants, they knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted chaos, they got it. Now, I hope they're made an example of and spend quite a bit of time in jail.

Or better yet, working a clean-up detail downtown during these events...and especially cleaning up other thug's crimes. There should be a team of convicted youngsters who are available to clean up their co-hort's destruction...no way the team at the coney island and beyond should have to go to all that effort due these knuckleheads.

It could be quite the comeuppance, having to be on a clean-up crew while everyone else is partying. Like the broken windows philosophy, only the perps are the ones fixing 'em.

**Honky Tonk** · February-10-13, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Exactly. I know those teenagers didn't have any coherent ideology. Their anger is raw and visceral.

When you spruce up a few select parts of town and basically tell the rest that they need to get the hell out, what do you think might happen? That's why Bing has been so slow to tear down blocks. Where do the remaining people go?

Hey naim rouge, FYI, you keep forgetting to add smiley faces after your posts.

**daveyarm** · February-10-13, 01:13 PM

I will never condone or make excuses for rampant behavior like last night. But we should keep it in perspective. Although I'm sure people close to the scene, particularly those in American Coney Island, we're really scared, the truth is: nobody got shot or stabbed, no fires were set, no cars were overturned, nobody was robbed, and nobody was raped or beaten up. Unacceptable bad behavior? Absolutely! But keep it in perspective.

Shollin · February-10-13, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by daveyarm

I will never condone or make excuses for rampant behavior like last night. But we should keep it in perspective. Although I'm sure people close to the scene, particularly those in American Coney Island, we're really scared, the truth is: nobody got shot or stabbed, no fires were set, no cars were overturned, nobody was robbed, and nobody was raped or beaten up. Unacceptable bad behavior? Absolutely! But keep it in perspective.

No big deal. The productive members of society are just left to pay to fix their business that these felons damaged.

**Gannon** · February-10-13, 02:02 PM

AND rebuild the goodwill everyone has been trying to collect and present to the world...

**stinkytofu** · February-10-13, 02:05 PM

Wow – I was at The Detroiter watching the MSU game and then we were between the Winter Blast and Greektown between 9-11 and had a blast. There were tons of folks downtown from every race, sex, and age. Brought my buddy who never comes downtown for anything other than Tigers’ games and he was shocked to see it so alive.

The only thing that sketched us out a little was we wandered into one tent at the Winter Blast at 10 or so and there were probably 70-80 high school kids just standing in there together looking around. We wandered out right away knowing that might not be the best situation, but nothing appeared to come of that specific situation.

Nonetheless, we saw no big issues…and we wandered from Cobo area to Greektown…to Winter Blast…back to Greektown…to RenCen to check out the river…back to Cobo area over the course of five hours and saw no arrests or anything really of note.

Kind of reminds me of that flash mob crap that was infiltrating Philly a few years back with bands of teens wrecking stuff.

**SWMAP** · February-10-13, 02:18 PM

Readers here may remember that the gang mobs [[facilitated by text messaging) caused the shut-down of many areas on the Riverfront last summer.
I don't buy the social justice excuses advanced here by Nain and others. Young people in Detroit are being raised by single mothers with serious problems with poor mating judgements, serial relationships, no money, themselves stealing utilities and relying completely on a frayed net of free services. There are no fathers in these families - as most understand fatherhood.
The mothers just aren't there for them - so don't ask rhetorically about where their patents are.
What does the future hold in a world where this behavior and it's consequences for our community is rationalized, excused, and celebrated in song?
A few months ago I was leaving work in my building downtown. As I stood on the steps, a gang of about ten black teens came storming out of a service alley and flew down Congress. I turned right around and stepped back into the building. But not long after heard commotion and saw a businessman who had been attacked by the gang, knocked down, his wallet and briefcase taken.
That's a lot of nerve at 5 PM in broad daylight. It seemed to signal a turn for the worse in the livability and civility of our city.

**Gannon** · February-10-13, 02:24 PM

Yeah, and when I voiced my concern due a definite targeting unto hunting my partner and I felt while walking downtown last summer...I caught hell for my prejudice and assumptions. Fuck all who said those horrid things. I know what we experienced, and it has only gotten worse.

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 02:30 PM

No is excusing their behavior, SWMAP.

Now, you're saying the problem stems from a breakdown of the nuclear family unit in Detroit. OK, sure - I think that's a good point. But what drove the fathers to become quote unquote "deadbeats"? That's the real question.

Personally, I think what happened is that after the riots and the civil rights movement, those in power said: Fine, fine. We'll give blacks the rights they deserve. But WE'RE getting the hell out here! And that was the worse thing they could've done.

You see, there was no follow up to make sure all the changes made in the '60s and '70s were having the intended consequences. The reality of the black community was radically altered by civil rights, white flight, and an increased governmental safety net in a way whites didn't have to deal with.

The truth is, when whites couldn't oppress blacks the way they were accustomed to after civil rights were increased, they took their money and their jobs to suburbs that for decades visibly discriminated against blacks. They recreated their utopia, and blacks were again largely excluded. It had to be very discouraging, and welfare and all the "freebies" were like alcohol, a way to handle the pain.

I know many of you won't accept that take on history, but I fail to see how it's inaccurate.

**evergreen** · February-10-13, 02:30 PM

SWMP - you hit the nail on the head. I remember the time and energy both my parents put into keeping us on the straight and narrow and even with all that we took some casualties. There's absolutely no comparison with what's happening now. Single parent homes with mothers who are too selfish or stressed out to deal with the consistent and strenuous demands of parenting are simply not up to the task of civilizing human beings. Throw in some of the products the entertainment industry churns out and you've got a recipe for disaster.

And I agree, more jobs would be nice, but they chase businesses and working families out of the city. Many of these kids are essentially unemployable by the time they reach 16 anyway as they have profound difficulties dealing with authority figures. Their indiscipline is a big part of the problem with the Detroit Public Schools.

We are in a heck of a mess, it has both a material and moral dimension to it.

**jcole** · February-10-13, 02:33 PM

I wonder is any of this had to do with the young woman they found shot dead in her SUV on 75 near Mack Friday night?

**Pam** · February-10-13, 02:41 PM

I am glad the judge has been able move beyond his past.

Yes. He turned his life around. Why rag on him for something that happened 40 years ago?

Shollin · February-10-13, 02:46 PM

I feel like Nain is Ashton Kutcher and I'm being punk'd.

**Mark Smiles** · February-10-13, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Shollin, that's why I'm a big endorser of an increased police presence in Detroit [[and not necessarily DPD). I don't care if that means Detroit has way more police per capita than Los Angeles, because right now, it FEELS like Detroit has a lot less.

I don't endorse crime whatsoever. But I do try to understand why it's happening and I'm not afraid to repeat the answers when I find out.

We have to remember that every reaction has a cause. In Detroit, however, it seems like everyone wants to blame the reaction. And I'll admit that there have been certain public officials that have used the causes as scapegoats for grave misdeeds. Still, that doesn't make the causes any less true.

Why did the violence happen?

Some made a decision, to commit it.

No one studied the corporate investments in their neighborhood, crunched the numbers and then decided the appropriate response was to create some mayhem.

The violence happened because some made a willful decision to violate the rights of others, fully knowing they were doing their victims people wrong.

By justifying their decisions to violate the rights of others, you are indeed condoning it.

**Lowell** · February-10-13, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by daveyarm

I will never condone or make excuses for rampant behavior like last night. But we should keep it in perspective. Although I'm sure people close to the scene, particularly those in American Coney Island, we're really scared, the truth is: nobody got shot or stabbed, no fires were set, no cars were overturned, nobody was robbed, and nobody was raped or beaten up. Unacceptable bad behavior? Absolutely! But keep it in perspective.

This needs to be reread ^. The assumptions made about the perps are unfounded and baseless. No details of their parental, educational or economic situation is given. Suddenly hands are thrown up, panic buttons are pushed and we hear, for the umpteenth time, 'All is lost for Detroit. Nobody will go downtown. It's over. I told you so but you wouldn't listen'.

Situations like this get magnified because they trigger attitudes that jump to conclusions about what happened and what it means for Detroit.

Meanwhile nothing will change. Visitors will continue to come downtown. Personally it will have zero impact on my going downtown or what I do when I am there. 3 million will still flock to Tiger games. The young will continue arrive, what is happening will continue to happen and security will figure out how to counteract such situations. Kids will also continue to cluster and create issues - that dance with the police has gone on for decades on the southeast end of Belle Isle. That's what happens at that restless age. Just witness the lengendary beer brawls in East Lansing.

**SWMAP** · February-10-13, 04:02 PM

Agesupon ages ago all the restless kids weren't carrying semi-atomic weapons as these kids are. Sorry that I don't agree that the huge increase in violence and death is just more restlessness or equivalent to a college beer brawl. These roving gangs with their "shots fired" make me reluctant to be in crowds -and I live in SW Detroit so I know a thing or two about City life.

**401don** · February-10-13, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

This needs to be reread ^. The assumptions made about the perps are unfounded and baseless. No details of their parental, educational or economic situation is given. Suddenly hands are thrown up, panic buttons are pushed and we hear, for the umpteenth time, 'All is lost for Detroit. Nobody will go downtown. It's over. I told you so but you wouldn't listen'.

Situations like this get magnified because they trigger attitudes that jump to conclusions about what happened and what it means for Detroit.

Meanwhile nothing will change. Visitors will continue to come downtown. Personally it will have zero impact on my going downtown or what I do when I am there. 3 million will still flock to Tiger games. The young will continue arrive, what is happening will continue to happen and security will figure out how to counteract such situations. Kids will also continue to cluster and create issues - that dance with the police has gone on for decades on the southeast end of Belle Isle. That's what happens at that restless age. Just witness the lengendary beer brawls in East Lansing.

So you think those "restless kids" will settle down now and go on to lead productive lives?

**stasu1213** · February-10-13, 04:11 PM

This is what you call a damn "Flash Mob" Youtube this. There are two types. Not the flash mob that sings christmas carol at a mall unexpectedly. You Tube the violent flash mob in america. These type of flash mobs attacked in chicago, california, washington and retail district in other cities across america. I agree with getmoore. It could be some type of conspiracy to make sure retail does not come to downtown detroit. This is why I had said last year that Dan Gilbert and others should hire their own security force to patrol downtown being the Bing and council are probably being instructed not to have a heavy police presence downtown especially on foot or on bicycles. I don't know if the powers to be who dont want to see a thriving downtown hire these flash mobs or allow these hooligans to run wild. Be careful of this type of mob. They will come in packs of 10s, 20s, or even more than 100 kids out of no where and attack a distrct overwhelming the police. This group has to be dealt with roughly. Take them down and make an example of them so they could go back and tell their homies that detroit is not playing that.

GUSHI · February-10-13, 04:13 PM

Drugs , murders , death, some will go to jail, some will not, some may find Jesus, a lot will reproduce, and the cycle starts over, etc etc etc,,,,,it's the culture they were / are raised in, As for the southern suburbs they will resist but eventually be over taken,

**jcole** · February-10-13, 04:19 PM

"Restless kids" are the ones that used to show up at the WABX Kite-In on Belle Isle and smoke some weed and play their radios too loud, or went out and knocked over garbage cans and hung out in Grand Circus Park. These are not "restless kids"; they're, at best, juvenile delinquents and up and coming ex-cons.

**stasu1213** · February-10-13, 04:33 PM

This is a flash mob probably testing the waters. Dont take this lightly

**Hermod** · February-10-13, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by illwill

Safety on the M-1 is something I often think about. I know there will be cameras, security and maybe cops on the routes but today’s youth could care less about a camera security or authority. We see this every day on the news with teenagers turning over corner stores directly underneath cameras and without mask.

I think because the Detroit kids are not used to public transportation and by seeing it glamorized on television, movies, video games and music videos in other big cities such as Philly, New York, Chicago etc... these teens will have the wrong impression of what these trains are there for. These trouble makers will assume the train is a place to hang out, ride it back and forth, smoke up, rap and terrorize passengers.

I hope the M-1 team can keep the flash mobs under control on the line.

Don't you know that the "magic choo choo" will be so awesome that these teenagers hearts will be turned and they will be models of decorum while be whisked along Woodward on board one of these palatial conveyances? I know this to be true because that is what I have been told on DetroitYes.

**JenniferL** · February-10-13, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by daveyarm

I will never condone or make excuses for rampant behavior like last night. But we should keep it in perspective. Although I'm sure people close to the scene, particularly those in American Coney Island, we're really scared, the truth is: nobody got shot or stabbed, no fires were set, no cars were overturned, nobody was robbed, and nobody was raped or beaten up. Unacceptable bad behavior? Absolutely! But keep it in perspective.

I think this is because there were so many cops close by. They were able to respond before the gang members could commit any serious crimes. Had these incidents occurred somewhere on 7 Mile Road, the whole thing probably would have escalated. Even if the gang members themselves didn't fire any shots, someone would have fired shots at them.

A question... Are we sure these all of these gang members are kids? They are described as such, but it seems that oftentimes when there's trouble with "kids" it turns out that some of them are actually in their twenties.