Any Witnesses to the Wildings, 02/09/2013?

**cla1945** · February-10-13, 11:40 AM

I am also dumbfounded to read all the excuses that some are making on this thread. These gang bangers and thugs are not just angry kids who don't have anything better to do. All you people are doing are enabling these thugs to do more harm.

Isn't anyone here going to at least ask the key questions? Do any of these people have parents or someone who is responsible for them? Do any of these people go to school? Are any of these thugs members of any church? Also, when is it time to take some responsibility for the actions of your children and stop making excuses for these poor underpriviledged teens?

Shollin · February-10-13, 11:44 AM

This maybe a wild idea but did any of these kids ever try applying for jobs at the businesses they were destroying?

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 11:45 AM

If you want the average Detroiter to feel like things are turning around, we'd need more working class jobs in the city. And I'm not saying just factories. It could even be like what you see in cities like Columbus, with skyscrapers packed with telemarketers and basic support people.

As it stands, we're seeing a renaissance of the white collar in Detroit, when we could really use a few more polo shirts. The current economic model in the city core just produces jobs for the college-educated people that happened to pick the right field and the people that take their orders and wash their dishes.

Unless you bring more working class jobs into Detroit, you're just squeezing a deflated balloon.

Shollin · February-10-13, 11:47 AM

Give me a break. Most of these teens wouldn't even be hirable at a McDonalds.

**gnome** · February-10-13, 11:48 AM

Nain, Being an apologist for thuggish behavior makes you complicit in their acts. Would your knee jerk apology and justification be so quick if they were suburbanites?

since you don't know where they are from, you have essentially accused all poor people of being prone to senseless violence. As though it is born with them, they have no will to overcome it.

you have given every Cracker justification to fear them.

Good job.

**illwill** · February-10-13, 11:52 AM

Safety on the M-1 is something I often think about. I know there will be cameras, security and maybe cops on the routes but today’s youth could care less about a camera security or authority. We see this every day on the news with teenagers turning over corner stores directly underneath cameras and without mask.

I think because the Detroit kids are not used to public transportation and by seeing it glamorized on television, movies, video games and music videos in other big cities such as Philly, New York, Chicago etc... these teens will have the wrong impression of what these trains are there for. These trouble makers will assume the train is a place to hang out, ride it back and forth, smoke up, rap and terrorize passengers.

I hope the M-1 team can keep the flash mobs under control on the line.

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 11:52 AM

Let's face it: it's easier to label every "bad guy" in Detroit a crook and a thug and leave it at that, as if that explains the source and manifestations of the problem.

Y'know, we just have too many crooks and thugs in the world. It was inevitable they'd take over at least one city.

Dealing with socioeconomic problems, on the other hand, we'd be a lot more difficult and would force us to face uncomfortable truths. And why do that, right?

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Nain, Being an apologist for thuggish behavior makes you complicit in their acts. Would your knee jerk apology and justification be so quick if they were suburbanites?

That depends. What's a typical suburb, these days? Oak Park or Eastpointe? Birmingham or Royal Oak? Mt. Clemens or Pontiac? Rochester Hills or Brownstown? That's a complicated subject.

**daveyarm** · February-10-13, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I can't believe I'm reading this. Why don't these juvenile delinquents go to school and get jobs and become productive members of their neighborhoods? My aunt lives at Warren and Chalmers. Her block is destroyed. She does her part by maintaining her property and paying taxes. I should instead tell her to incite a riot downtown and destroy small businesses. I hope Dan Gilbert has a change of heart and moves back to the suburbs and take his light rail with him. They don't want investment downtown, fine. Pull the plug. I'll do them a favor by never going downtown again to Tiger games and the auto show. In fact, I'll start going to more Piston games just because it's in Auburn Hills. Speaking of the Pistons, I'm sure this will go a long way in luring them back downtown.

We need more optimists like you, particularly with all your constructive ideas.

Shollin · February-10-13, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by daveyarm

We need more optimists like you, particularly with all your constructive ideas.

I've been hearing this Detroit revival for 40 years. First with the RenCen, Joe Louis Arena, the People Mover, Casinos, Stadiums, Dan Gilbert and it keeps getting worse. The most appalling thing about it is so many people are making excuses for these felons.

Where my aunt lives at Warren and Chalmers about 10 years ago they built some new houses on vacant lots. They moved in these poor victims. Within in months there were drugs and shootings and eventually all the families moved out and now we have vacant homes. People don't invest in these neighborhoods because they destroy them. Why is the blame being placed on people who invest in Detroit? What are they suppose to do, just give them money? Why isn't any onus placed on these people?

**daveyarm** · February-10-13, 12:05 PM

My further recollection of last night: my apartment overlooks the Transit Center, and I keep a window open because my centrally-controlled heat is always too high. I did not hear any shots fired, and I routinely hear everything from that area, including even voices.

Shollin · February-10-13, 12:06 PM

How the hell do we even know these teenagers were doing it because of investment downtown and not in their neighborhood?

**One Shot** · February-10-13, 12:11 PM

I was surprised and disgusted seeing the ch 4 story. I'm a suburbanite that has been going downtown my entire life and brags about the nice areas. This is the kind of crap that will make even me think twice. These punks should be locked up until some type of parent/guardian can show up and demonstrate the skills to take care of these idiots. In sure this was the actions of a well known gang just to get their rocks off by scaring the civil people.

Shollin · February-10-13, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

That depends. What's a typical suburb, these days? Oak Park or Eastpointe? Birmingham or Royal Oak? Mt. Clemens or Pontiac? Rochester Hills or Brownstown? That's a complicated subject.[/COLOR]

I like how you grouped the black suburbs together and the white suburbs together. What you mean is if it's a black suburb it would be justified and a white suburb not?

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

People don't invest in these neighborhoods because they destroy them. Why is the blame being placed on people who invest in Detroit? What are they suppose to do, just give them money? Why isn't any onus placed on these people?

Shollin, that's why I'm a big endorser of an increased police presence in Detroit [[and not necessarily DPD). I don't care if that means Detroit has way more police per capita than Los Angeles, because right now, it FEELS like Detroit has a lot less.

I don't endorse crime whatsoever. But I do try to understand why it's happening and I'm not afraid to repeat the answers when I find out.

We have to remember that every reaction has a cause. In Detroit, however, it seems like everyone wants to blame the reaction. And I'll admit that there have been certain public officials that have used the causes as scapegoats for grave misdeeds. Still, that doesn't make the causes any less true.

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I like how you grouped the black suburbs together and the white suburbs together. What you mean is if it's a black suburb it would be justified and a white suburb not?

Naw. I just mean that "the suburbs" is just a blanket term nowadays. It means about anything you want it to mean. We don't have a real urban core anymore to act as a litmus test anymore, so we're left talking about different gradients of the same basic color.

**illwill** · February-10-13, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

How the hell do we even know these teenagers were doing it because of investment downtown and not in their neighborhood?

Bright lights, big city, restaurants, night clubs, shiny cars, parties, sexy women, artist scene, cleanstreets, TV news media trucks etc...

It's the glamorous life compared to the rest of Detroit so of course they come down due to the investments. I'm sure they're not targeting investments but when they come downtown, it's like they're a kid in a candy store. And if you look at the way the neighborhoods look, then you understand why they treat downtown the same way they treat the neighborhoods. The only thing that has changed in their minds is the geographic location.

Now mix in a few drugs and you have a really nice party.

**Gannon** · February-10-13, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

How the hell do we even know these teenagers were doing it because of investment downtown and not in their neighborhood?

Ha, we don't. That is another indication of someone imagining other's thoughts within the context they frame the discussion within!

It'd be curious to learn if the police were able to learn any of the motivations from those they arrested...if they even bothered talking with any of them.

If there were officers injured, you can bet they'll all turn up the heat from their end as well. I hope this doesn't bode the mood and temperment of the streets as the weather warms.

Sincerely,
John

**Zacha341** · February-10-13, 12:24 PM

And downtown provides far more push back from the law than say Conner and Mack, or Joy Road and Grand River! There are few coney islands remaining to rip and toss chairs about in the city. Smack the wrong person and your getting bullets back at you!

Originally Posted by illwill

...it's like they're a kid in a candy store. And if you look at the way the neighborhoods look, then you understand why they treat downtown the same way they treat the neighborhoods. The only thing that has changed in their minds is the geographic location.

**Zacha341** · February-10-13, 12:32 PM

Hah! I like how you put that.

Originally Posted by Gannon

...That is another indication of someone imagining other's thoughts within the context they frame the discussion within!

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 12:32 PM

One last thing I'll say, and then I'm done: when it comes to defending teenage thugs and etc., let me tell you right now... I deal with it! I live on the border of Warren & Eastpointe, and I have had little snot-nosed teenagers threaten to kick my white ass quite a few times. It would be easy to just get hopping mad and blame the world's woes on them, but I can see the broader picture.

I get it. I take it stride. We're living in a messed up place, man.

Shollin · February-10-13, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

One last thing I'll say, and then I'm done: when it comes to defending teenage thugs and etc., let me tell you right now... I deal with it! I live on the border of Warren & Eastpointe, and I have had little snot-nosed teenagers threaten to kick my white ass quite a few times. It would be easy to just get hopping mad and blame the world's woes on them, but I can see the broader picture.

I get it. I take it stride. We're living in a messed up place, man.

Wait, this whole narrative from you on how suburbs ruined Detroit, how suburbs get more subsidies, how these teenagers are victims, how we must have a dense urban core etc, and you yourself lives in a suburb?

**Zacha341** · February-10-13, 12:38 PM

Is Eastpointe really a suburb? --

--

**softailrider** · February-10-13, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

What's probably in the works is that Dan Gilbert's creating a private police force strictly for downtown. That's probably why he purchased controlling shares of Greektown Casino [[revenue to operate it). It could be the upcoming perk Gilbert's using to attract retailers downtown.

As for the teenagers, who can blame them? While I'm not excusing what they did, the people they're supposed to be looking up to for guidance have more less said fuck them. So they figure an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, given how hopeless their futures seem.

These flash mobs have also been happening in Chicago and Philadelphia if you've been paying attention to the news. Expect the trend to continue and even become worse in Detroit as more cuts are imposed on the neighborhoods while downtown's growth continues subsidized.

I'm not buying that second paragraph at all. I'll place all the blame on those teenagers. You've got to be held accountable for your actions, they're not infants, they knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted chaos, they got it. Now, I hope they're made an example of and spend quite a bit of time in jail.

**nain rouge** · February-10-13, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Wait, this whole narrative from you on how suburbs ruined Detroit, how suburbs get more subsidies, how these teenagers are victims, how we must have a dense urban core etc, and you yourself lives in a suburb?

Well, I don't have a lot of money, and right now I'm renting from my cousin because I couldn't even qualify for a real lease. I was actually right on the cusp of living in Woodbridge, but then the landlord found a better candidate.

What can I say?

Actually, when I go to downtown or midtown, I feel very envious. I wish I had the mobility to live and work somewhere like that. Maybe that's why I can empathize a bit with those teenagers in the original story, even if I don't condone crime.