Chicago murders

[illwill]

According to Chicago48, Chicago is STILL full on small minded people. well at least one [[Chicago48).

Why would he say Chicago has a population of 2 million and then exclude the 600K black Chicagoans as not being part of the population?

I guess blacks are not considered part of the population in Chicago, huh Chicago48?

[TexasT]

According to Chicago48, Chicago is STILL full on small minded people. well at least one [[Chicago48).

Why would he say Chicago has a population of 2 million and then exclude the 600K black Chicagoans as not being part of the population?

I guess blacks are not considered part of the population in Chicago, huh Chicago48?

He didn't. He noted that 600,000 of Chicago's population is black. He noted that most murders are black-on-black crimes. His point to apply the absolute number of murders to the black population, the one more affected by the increasing murder rate.

It's not racist to realize that murder disproportionately affects black Chicagoans and to analyze the murder rate as it pertains to them. If a city of 10 million has only 100 murders, that's not so bad. But if the 100 murders occur within a subset group of that 10 million that has only 1000 members, that's a problem, even if the overall city-wide murder rate is low. That's his point.

[Bham1982]

He didn't. He noted that 600,000 of Chicago's population is black.

I think Chicago is a little less than 40% black, so assuming roughly 2.6 million residents, there are probably at least one million blacks living within city limits.

I assume homicides are concentrated mostly in the black neighborhoods, but a number of heavily Mexican neighborhoods also have a relatively high murder rate.

[TexasT]

I think Chicago is a little less than 40% black, so assuming roughly 2.6 million residents, there are probably at least one million blacks living within city limits.

I assume homicides are concentrated mostly in the black neighborhoods, but a number of heavily Mexican neighborhoods also have a relatively high murder rate.

2010 it was 32% black per the census, Hispanics about the same. Chicago's Red Eye has been running a homicide tracker for years, so you can pick up your Red Eye every week and see where the murders are. Since they started, there have been 2892 murders, 2089 of which had black victims.

His point was that it makes sense to look at trends within the larger statistics. If I'm in Lincoln Park [[and statistically likely to be white), I'm not all that worried about me, my family, or my friends getting murdered. If I'm in Austin or Englewood [[and statistically likely to be black), I certainly am. And yes, some Hispanic neighborhoods like Humboldt Park [[right next to where I lived in Wicker Park) are bad, but the black population is bearing the brunt of this epidemic.

[iheartthed]

but there is great economic and social disparity between darker folks and lighter ones.

Not unlike the US/Chicago... Or every other city in the western world.

[rb336]

Not unlike the US/Chicago... Or every other city in the western world.

Not so much in the Scandinavian and in other NW. European countries [[except England) - no where near the extremes of Brazil & the US

[iheartthed]

Not so much in the Scandinavian and in other NW. European countries [[except England) - no where near the extremes of Brazil & the US

The Scandinavian countries are becoming xenophobic as they start to become pigmentally diverse. It's hard to match the legacy of the US, but I'd argue that France is probably more racist than England now.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Try telling that to the NRA. They always preach a right to bear arms, which I agree with to a certain extent as far as protecting yourself and your family. They don't believe any gun laws will help curb the violence. They just want to continue making money on their multibillion dollar enterprise. Something or someone has to give. Gun violence is destroying this country.

[Shollin]

I still have no idea why someone needs to own a semi automatic assault rifle.

[hathorlive]

I still have no idea why someone needs to own a semi automatic assault rifle.

LOL...I used to live in Oak Park, three blocks from Austin, which is one of the worst crime areas in Chicago. I had two things better than assault riffles...dogs. I had hoards of suspicious people cross the street at 1 in the morning because of my dogs. And I had beagles. It was so sad.

I'm a single female and have lived by myself for a majority of my life. I've never felt the need for a gun, no matter what city I've lived in. Just my opinion. Most of those guns are usually used against a family member, so I'll stick with dogs. Though I might upgrade to a bigger model!

[wolverine]

It's starting to creep to the non-poor sections too though. I just moved to Detroit from Wicker Park. They tore down Cabrini-Green and other projects in an effort to mix up the population - that's led to a lot of it; it's less "contained." There was a stabbing in WP right before I left and a BoA robbery. A brutal stabbing in Lincoln Park. Wasn't there a shooting in the Mag Mile? Not to mention the flash mobs where they beat/rob random people. Two summers ago, we started having those flash mobs, then they got worse this past summer. Hesitant to see what happens this summer - I worked with CPD daily and they had a hard time dealing with that.

It's not bad yet in the "good" areas by any means - I felt safe walking alone in Bucktown/WP at any time of day...but you started seeing crime pop up here and there. You can only let it run unchecked down on the S and W sides for so long...

It's these types of crimes that tend to persist as headliners in the news. It's nowhere near the bloodshed in parts of the south and westsides. I think scattered housing prevented the crime rate from being far worse. Neighborhoods where the projects used to be are some of the safest even after they've begun to rebuild. And clustered areas of public housing have had incidents of homicide but at the rate of 1 to 2 a year. It's nothing like it used to be. Concentrated poverty was an awful part of urban history.

But some of the individuals committing these violent crimes already have very violent backgrounds. Just look at this mess:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...-attacker.html

Released on parole, then attempts to murder an innocent man? Our justice system is broken. We need to keep violent people in prison for life. Violent offenders don't deserve to be part of society. It's outrageous we'd release violent criminals back amongst us, foolishly assuming they'd be upstanding citizens.

We need to get low level offenders out of prison and the social help they need to be successful individuals. We need keep violent offenders in prison and turn prisons for violent individuals a highly profitable enterprise. I realize human rights organization might balk at this...essentially warehousing the worst criminals and forcing them to work. Who cares? The same type person that took the life of an innocent 15 year old girl deserves this destiny, they picked it.

[Brian1979]

According to Chicago48, Chicago is STILL full on small minded people. well at least one [[Chicago48).

Why would he say Chicago has a population of 2 million and then exclude the 600K black Chicagoans as not being part of the population?

I guess blacks are not considered part of the population in Chicago, huh Chicago48?

I live in Chicago also and I know that there are closer to 3 million people in Chicago than 2 million. It's not always black on black crime either, Chicago has a huge homeless population, Chicago has a huge gang population, those are two of the biggest things with Chicago crime. Also the black population of Chicago is closer to 900,000 which happens to be higher than Detroit's overall population.

[krapug1]

Just to get back to the original question, part of the reason that Chicago has received so much media attention to it's murder rate is what I refer to as "the worlds colliding". While many of the murders occur in troubled areas, there have been some high profile incidents within the gold coast, and hence everyone's curiosity is peaked.

There is a similar pattern in Philly, where the population, and affluence of center city has soared, and yet the poverty, overall crime, and murder rate within the city as a whole remains stubbornly high. There was a recent muder of a young doctor in center city, that at first was speculated to be an incident of the worlds colliding, yet turned out to be a pest exterminator who snapped.

Ken

[wolverine]

They made an effort buy placing Cabrini-Green right next to one of the wealthiest areas of the city.

And they built walls of "buffer buildings" and didn't give that area transit. Brown line division st was torn down, and the red line just blazed on through. It didn't matter that Cabrini was so close. City planners and developers simply built walls of buildings with no pass through streets. It's incredible how the grid just stops at Lasalle. Might as well be a freeway or river there. That's why historically crime never spilled over much into the affluent areas.

[Brian1979]

And they built walls of "buffer buildings" and didn't give that area transit. Brown line division st was torn down, and the red line just blazed on through. It didn't matter that Cabrini was so close. City planners and developers simply built walls of buildings with no pass through streets. It's incredible how the grid just stops at Lasalle. Might as well be a freeway or river there. That's why historically crime never spilled over much into the affluent areas.

The brown line has a long stretch in that area without a station, between the Chicago/Franklin station and Sedgwick there is nothing, use to be three of them [[Oak, Division and Schiller), then the red line that runs even closer to the Cabrini Green site doesn't have anything on Clybourn until you get to North Avenue. I never understood why that area was so limited to L service, the brown line should at least have a stop at Division and the red line should at least have a stop near where it curves at Clybourn and Division. I live in the area, it's coming along pretty nice.

[Bham1982]

I don't think it's true that Cabrini Green was built in an "affluent area".

That area, way back, was a super-poor Irish neighborhood [[at least I'm pretty sure this is true), and the complex [[which came in two phases) replaced this slum.

The affluent North Side neighborhoods were [[and are) concentrated in a narrow corridor along the lake. Back then, the corridor was much thinner, and areas like Old Town were crap. That whole Carl Sandburg complex was 1960's slum removal.

Even today, everything west of the Brown Line [[hell, everything west of State Street) is a lot less desirable than everything east of Brown [[or State). There's a lot of parking lots, subsidized housing, and rather low-end uses [[gas stations, strip malls, etc.).

[coracle]

Chicago
Wow, are Illinois and Chicago great or what?
Body count: In the last 12 months 531 killed [[murdered) in Chicago.
Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the entire US.
President: Barack Hussein Obama [[D) from Chicago.
Senator: Dick Durbin [[D) from Chicago.
House Representative: Jesse Jackson Jr. [[D) from Chicago.
Governor: Pat Quinn [[D)
House leader: Mike Madigan [[D)
Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan[[D) [[daughter of Mike)
Mayor: Rahm Emanuel[[D)
The leadership in Illinois - all Democrats.
Thank you all for the combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they're all blaming each other.
Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.
Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!

State pension fund $98 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!
Cook County [[ Chicago ) sales tax 10.25% highest in country.
Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois.
And he is going to 'fix' Washington politics for us???
George Ryan [[D) is no longer Governor, he is in the big house. Of course he was replaced by Rob Blajegovitch[[D) who is...that's right, also in the big house. And Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. [[D) resigned a couple of weeks ago. That is because he is fighting being sent to...that's right, the big house.
The Land of Lincoln, where our governors make our license plates.

Does it not make you think of another such city?

[Brian1979]

The reason that Cabrini Green became so well known is because it was real close to affluent areas. There were several other failed housing projects in Chicago like the Robert Taylor Homes which sat across the Dan Ryan from Comiskey Park, Stateway Gardens which was adjacent to the Taylor Homes, as well as Rockwell Gardens and Henry Horner Homes on the Westside.

[rb336]

"real close" is a relative term. so is "affluent." At the time the mid and high rise buildings were built, I think the nearest affluent areas were east of N. Clark or west of the river north of fullerton. I think it would be more apt to call it an "upper working class" neighborhood like Oak Park

[Brian1979]

"real close" is a relative term. so is "affluent." At the time the mid and high rise buildings were built, I think the nearest affluent areas were east of N. Clark or west of the river north of fullerton. I think it would be more apt to call it an "upper working class" neighborhood like Oak Park

Cabrini Green was less than a mile from Streeterville and River North. I'm talking about neighborhoods that surrounded Cabrini Green. It sat around the corner of Division and Halsted, the last building was knocked down not too long ago.

[Brian1979]

I don't think it's true that Cabrini Green was built in an "affluent area".

That area, way back, was a super-poor Irish neighborhood [[at least I'm pretty sure this is true), and the complex [[which came in two phases) replaced this slum.

The affluent North Side neighborhoods were [[and are) concentrated in a narrow corridor along the lake. Back then, the corridor was much thinner, and areas like Old Town were crap. That whole Carl Sandburg complex was 1960's slum removal.

Even today, everything west of the Brown Line [[hell, everything west of State Street) is a lot less desirable than everything east of Brown [[or State). There's a lot of parking lots, subsidized housing, and rather low-end uses [[gas stations, strip malls, etc.).

You are correct that it replaced a slum, it was however less than a mile from River North and Streeterville. I'm not sure on what it was like before Cabrini Green but I sure know what it was like when Cabrini Green was around.

[rb336]

River North was formerly an Italian enclave, as I said, working class, but until the 70s, it was slumsville. Streeterville is a mile away

[Bham1982]

I'm talking about neighborhoods that surrounded Cabrini Green. It sat around the corner of Division and Halsted, the last building was knocked down not too long ago.

Cabrini Green is still there.

They only knocked down the highrises. None of the lowrise townhouses were demolished. In fact, all the lowrises were renovated a few years back, and aren't going anywhere.

[wolverine]

Cabrini Green is still there.

They only knocked down the highrises. None of the lowrise townhouses were demolished. In fact, all the lowrises were renovated a few years back, and aren't going anywhere.

1/4 of the Frances Cabrini Homes were renovated. The CHA decided they would not renovate the remaining buildings.

I took this photo awhile back a year after completed renovations. I was happy to see on a return visit it still looks this good.


As for the remaining buildings those residents were evicted and the homes have been shuttered. HUD approval is currently pending to advance their demolition. Cabrini-Green is technically hyphenated for a reason. "Green Homes" referred to the towers. Frances Cabrini row homes were originally for working Italian immigrants. The area has since been re-named Parkside Oldtown and is mostly market rate....a reason for the swarm of controversy around the development.

Hopefully that clears the confusion. Cabrini Homes were not completely renovated as you state. If you drive through there the windows are plated over and they have fences around them. They just haven't gone anywhere.

At it's peak, there was approximately 15,000 residents living within Cabrini-Green housing. Today's there's around 200 public housing residents in that area.

I should have also mentioned there's been some debate as to whether the buildings should have been used to house nearly all the city's homeless. Despite their abandonment they are still serviceable. While I agree some of it should have been used to solve this problem, I don't believe in concentrated housing for the poor.

[Brian1979]

The last high rise was demolished about two years ago, the original rowhouses weren't going anywhere.