Would Detroit benefit from the formation of militias?

**Dexlin** · January-31-13, 07:55 AM

Yes, and along with the militia, let us place movable barricades [[aka checkpoints) on every block, and designate block captain to check the comings and goings of every car and pedestrian. We will then have neighborhood children act as spies. Each block's long guns shall be kept in designated garages, and every person 12 and older will be required to carry a pistol.

This has been the solution in half-way functioning New Orleans, which had an identical murder rate, last year, and usually a higher one.

**louis** · January-31-13, 08:29 AM

if im not mistaken, are not more and more neighborhoods chipping in to hire their own cops? i know this is possible through some measure Bing pushed through but i cant remember the name of it. all things aside, i like your though process and this would be an interesting solution but when it comes down to it these militia will only be good for deterring crime seeing as they wont have the ability to arrest anyone.

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-31-13, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by louis

if im not mistaken, are not more and more neighborhoods chipping in to hire their own cops? i know this is possible through some measure Bing pushed through but i cant remember the name of it. all things aside, i like your though process and this would be an interesting solution but when it comes down to it these militia will only be good for deterring crime seeing as they wont have the ability to arrest anyone.

Crime could be ended by all productive residents moving out. Who would be left to victimize but the criminals themselves? The tactic of moving has been employed for decades in Detroit with successful results for all that have used this tactic. I highly recommend it to current Detroit residents.

**louis** · January-31-13, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Crime could be ended by all productive residents moving out. Who would be left to victimize but the criminals themselves? The tactic of moving has been employed for decades in Detroit with successful results for all that have used this tactic. I highly recommend it to current Detroit residents.

i hate to break it to you but the tendency among gangsters is to shot other gangsters and i'm sure you will agree with me in saying that they are not exactly the most productive people in the world. now if congress would legalize drugs then the revenue from gangs would be striped and the "thug life" would become highly unsustainable and all larger gangs would collapse just like they did when prohibition ended.

**Dexlin** · January-31-13, 09:04 AM

You don't think criminals move, and that the criminals aren't moving to the suburbs? In fact, your drug deealers, especially, are always on the move.

No, moving just moves the crime around, it doesn't end it. I can't begrudge anyone for moving anywhere safer. But, you are naive if you think that the muscial chairs in this region do anything other than disperse and dislocate crime. Crime has dropped in the region [[and in the nation as a whole), and it's only because of an aging population/continusouly lower birth rate.

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-31-13, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by louis

i hate to break it to you but the tendency among gangsters is to shot other gangsters and i'm sure you will agree with me in saying that they are not exactly the most productive people in the world. now if congress would legalize drugs then the revenue from gangs would be striped and the "thug life" would become highly unsustainable and all larger gangs would collapse just like they did when prohibition ended.

Do we care if gangsters shoot each other? Did I accidentally venture onto the wrong board or something?

**louis** · January-31-13, 09:19 AM

you might if you get caught in the crossfire

**louis** · January-31-13, 09:20 AM

also, is Dexlin talking to you or me? im a little confused here.

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-31-13, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

You don't think criminals move, and that the criminals aren't moving to the suburbs? In fact, your drug deealers, especially, are always on the move.

No, moving just moves the crime around, it doesn't end it. I can't begrudge anyone for moving anywhere safer. But, you are naive if you think that the muscial chairs in this region do anything other than disperse and dislocate crime. Crime has dropped in the region [[and in the nation as a whole), and it's only because of an aging population/continusouly lower birth rate.

But it's the only realistic solution that has been utilized in this region. All the other solutions that have been proposed have never been instituted. Btw, this militia idea? Something very similar to that was announced last year and what happened with that?

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ime-in-Detroit

Moving out of Detroit is a tactic used by hundreds of thousands of successful ex-Detroiters for decades. Are not the current Detroit residents worthy of moving out of Detroit and away from ineptitude and a spiraling out of control crime scenario?

Originally Posted by louis

you might if you get caught in the crossfire

You won't get caught in the crossfire if you're not around -- i.e.: you moved.

**Lowell** · January-31-13, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Yes, and along with the militia, let us place movable barricades [[aka checkpoints) on every block, and designate block captain to check the comings and goings of every car and pedestrian. We will then have neighborhood children act as spies. Each block's long guns shall be kept in designated garages, and every person 12 and older will be required to carry a pistol.

This has been the solution in half-way functioning New Orleans, which had an identical murder rate, last year, and usually a higher one.

Many cities have militias in the form of gangs as well as private security forces. The lack of a serious gang culture and declining population density have pretty much prevented the former in Detroit.

Last year I hired a knowledgeable driver to tour me around Kingston, Jamaica. Several times he pointed out gang members who stood like guards at the entrances to neighborhoods their gang ruled and checked everybody entering. They brought peace and security but at what cost? Forming a militia only begs the question, "Who controls the militia?" "What happens when one militia disagrees with another?"

**canuck** · January-31-13, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

You don't think criminals move, and that the criminals aren't moving to the suburbs? In fact, your drug deealers, especially, are always on the move.

No, moving just moves the crime around, it doesn't end it. I can't begrudge anyone for moving anywhere safer. But, you are naive if you think that the muscial chairs in this region do anything other than disperse and dislocate crime. Crime has dropped in the region [[and in the nation as a whole), and it's only because of an aging population/continusouly lower birth rate.

Yes, but the US birthrate is still pretty high compared to other developed nations though.

**aj3647** · January-31-13, 10:14 AM

This is happening now in Mexico, although they are calling them "self-defense patrols."

http://www.sgvtribune.com/breakingne...-guns-hit-back

Militia is a very loaded term. Take a page from the Mexicans and call them "defense patrols" instead.

There is nothing in either the state or federal laws that prevents Detroiters with CCWs from organizing and carrying out patrols. It's even legal to openly carry firearms, you don't have to conceal them.

**mwilbert** · January-31-13, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Crime has dropped in the region [[and in the nation as a whole), and it's only because of an aging population/continusouly lower birth rate.

This is incorrect. Age-adjusted crime rates have dropped too. No one knows why, but I think the evidence favors dropping levels of lead in the environment.

[[I tried to post a link here but the forum software mangles it.) Google "Rick Nevin lead crime" and you should find it.

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-31-13, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

This is happening now in Mexico, although they are calling them "self-defense patrols."

http://www.sgvtribune.com/breakingne...-guns-hit-back

Militia is a very loaded term. Take a page from the Mexicans and call them "defense patrols" instead.

There is nothing in either the state or federal laws that prevents Detroiters with CCWs from organizing and carrying out patrols. It's even legal to openly carry firearms, you don't have to conceal them.

But why should Detroiters have to do this when, if their neighborhoods have deteriorated to the point where having defense patrols would be neccessary, they can just move?

**mwilbert** · January-31-13, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

There is nothing in either the state or federal laws that prevents Detroiters with CCWs from organizing and carrying out patrols. It's even legal to openly carry firearms, you don't have to conceal them.

The question is still whether that would be a good idea. It seems rather likely to lead to some very unpleasant situations, but maybe it would be an improvement over the current state of affairs.

**mwilbert** · January-31-13, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

But why should Detroiters have to do this when, if their neighborhoods have deteriorated to the point where having defense patrols would be necessary, they can just move?

Because they don't want to move?

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-31-13, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Because they don't want to move?

What if they do? It appears to me with the rapid population decreases over the last 12 years that Detroiters do want to move and are doing just that.

**mwilbert** · January-31-13, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

What if they do? It appears to me with the rapid population decreases over the last 12 years that Detroiters do want to move and are doing just that.

If they want to move, then they should move. I don't think anyone is suggesting that everyone would want to be part of armed neighborhood patrols.

**southen** · January-31-13, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

That's not enough to discard the proposal entirely. Here in Detroit, the residents are majority Black with a growing Latino and Arab population.

The issue here isn't ethnicity. It is crime. When arson, assaults, murder, and other varieties of crime occur, people tend to take the mentality:

"As long as I'm not the victim, it's not my problem."

Here in Detroit, Blacks have majority. So of course the majority of the crimes are being committed by Blacks, to everyone else in Detroit.

This city is Majority Black ruled and represented, the citizens still here are low to middle class with a few neighborhoods above middle class.

But there are not enough cops in the neighborhoods:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/10/06/enter-at-your-own-risk-police-union-says-war-like-detroit-is-unsafe-for-visitors/

This is not acceptable. And criminals don't respond well to non-violent marches.

my statement didn't have anything to do with race. I was pointing out what happens when you give people guns and tell them to take back their neighborhood. I'll never understand why people always want to throw more guns into the mix.

**Hypestyles** · January-31-13, 10:53 AM

gun culture has to be confronted, comprehensive gun legislation has to be formed and implemented http://hypestyle.newsvine.com/_news/...rming-gun-laws

**Tig3rzhark** · January-31-13, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

You don't think criminals move, and that the criminals aren't moving to the suburbs? In fact, your drug deealers, especially, are always on the move.

No, moving just moves the crime around, it doesn't end it. I can't begrudge anyone for moving anywhere safer. But, you are naive if you think that the muscial chairs in this region do anything other than disperse and dislocate crime. Crime has dropped in the region [[and in the nation as a whole), and it's only because of an aging population/continusouly lower birth rate.

I'd have to agree with this post. Once again, running from the problem doesn't solve it.

Not everyone can afford to leave town. I have a great aunt that lives on a street surrounded by a couple of abandoned houses and an apartment building that was burned down to the ground. She owns the house she lives in and has lived there for years and is unable to leave the city of Detroit.

This is despite that she lives nearby a police precient and a fire house.

If Detroit finally gets left to the dogs, the surrounding cities will be next to deal with the crime that spreads. The suburbs aren't much of a security net as they were.

It is going to take a long time for the region to get its act together. I'm pretty sure during that time, people will be moving out of the state, instead of moving to the suburbs.

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-31-13, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

I'm pretty sure ... people will be moving out of the state, instead of moving to the suburbs.

Moving out of state is an option too. Good point.

**aj3647** · January-31-13, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

But why should Detroiters have to do this when, if their neighborhoods have deteriorated to the point where having defense patrols would be neccessary, they can just move?

Because in many of these crime-ridden neighborhoods, the homes are essentially worthless. It'd be very difficult to sell them, and even if the homeowners could find a buyer, they'd get very little for them.

So how are these people, who are dirt poor, going to afford to move to the suburbs? They can't afford to move, as much as some of them may desperately want to.

**detroitsgwenivere** · January-31-13, 02:43 PM

I can tell that some of you posters have never lived in the hood.

Who exactly is supposed to be operating these roving bands of patrolling militias?

Last time I checked, the overwhelming majority of folks running the households in these high crime areas are seniors on fixed incomes. Or they're single mothers, ghetto-vet war widows doing whatever they have to to keep their kids fed with a roof, or procreating with mostly men-children that are LUCKY to have a job and are just trying to stay alive out here.

Community policing is a great idea. There are lots of tools that neighborhoods can utilize to stay connected and informed, that can prevent crime in progress and in the future. But it begs to question, what is the community? What tools will work with the folks that are actually a part of this community? Is there even a community building process taking place?

Most people on DYES seem to think that these neighborhoods are unsalvageable. What makes anyone think that an unsalvageable place would have the manpower or the resources to organize a community policing effort, let alone hire their own security?

**Detroitnerd** · January-31-13, 06:23 PM

How do you make someplace safer?

How do you make someplace more secure?

The two are not the same thing.

The DMZ in Korea is about as secure a place as can be. But it isn't safe.

A campsite in the remote up north is about the least secure place you could find. But it's safe.

You can spend billions on security, as the United States government has done, and produce an environment in which people are more terrified than ever.

If all the law-and-order types would spend 1/2 the money they earmark for prisons, police, probation and paramilitary equipment and simply give it to people, we wouldn't have all this fear and crime.