Wal-Mart wants to open store in Southfield [Voted Down by Sfld Council]

[ArmDetroit]

Tell that to the Ham Shop across Monroe.

Buffalo Wild Wings has been open for about a month. Are you trying to say that business at the Ham Shop has been so bad since the beginning of December that they were forced to close in just over a months time?

[Honky Tonk]

Settle down and drink your metamucil with a slice of warm toast Ms. "I abandoned the city after 64 years".

A wing joint opening downtown isn't going to force other businesses in the community to close.

I don't have my glasses on. What's his handle? ArmPitDetroit?

[Richard]

I don't have my glasses on. What's his handle? ArmPitDetroit?

It is okay you can be the better person,you receive more respect then from name calling.

[p69rrh51]

It is okay you can be the better person,you receive more respect then from name calling.

You are so right Richard! A reminder for AD:

1-This forum is for polite, thoughtful discussion and inquiries only. Entries that are abusive, off subject, silly, trivial containing personal attacks, name-calling, threats, libels, illegal activities, or hate group messages will be removed without notice or explanation upon discovery.
2-Should you be attacked in any manner, do not retaliate! "He hit me first" excuses for name-calling or attacks will be considered the same as initiating an incident. Report the incident by clicking a REPORT POST /!\ icon at the bottom left of the offending post. Your complaint will be kept private, your identity shielded and the offender dealt with.

[Islandman]

Really? No downtown in NYC? Could have fooled me.

Is Manhattan a figment of my imagination?

Yes, no downtown in NYC. And yes, I lived there. My point, which I think was pretty clear, is that there is no designated downtown area as in other cities. Manhattan is most certainly not considered downtown by a New Yorker's standards.

Further, most New Yorkers consider anything south of their current location "downtown", north is uptown.


Considering all of Manhattan downtown is pretty hilarious. Tell that to people that live in Washington Heights.

[Bham1982]

Yes, not downtown in NYC. And yes, I lived there. My point, which I think was pretty clear, is that there is no designated downtown area as in other cities. Manhattan is most certainly not considered downtown by a New Yorker's standards.

Further, most New Yorkers consider anything south of their current location "downtown", north is uptown.


Considering all of Manhattan downtown is pretty hilarious. Tell that to people that live in Washington Heights.

I think your conception of NYC is very strange.

And, yeah, everyone else on earth [[except for you, apparently) knows that NYC's "downtown" is Manhattan. Just because it isn't specifically referred to as "downtown" doesn't mean it isn't the city center. Obviously Midtown is the very dead-center core of the region. It doesn't have to be called "downtown", which is a term only used in certain cities in the U.S. and Canada.

Philly, for example, has Center City, Charlotte has Uptown, cities in Germany have Centrum, etc. etc. It's all different words for the same thing [[city center).

[kenp]

You are so right Richard! A reminder for AD:

1-This forum is for polite, thoughtful discussion and inquiries only. Entries that are abusive, off subject, silly, trivial containing personal attacks, name-calling, threats, libels, illegal activities, or hate group messages will be removed without notice or explanation upon discovery.
2-Should you be attacked in any manner, do not retaliate! "He hit me first" excuses for name-calling or attacks will be considered the same as initiating an incident. Report the incident by clicking a REPORT POST /!\ icon at the bottom left of the offending post. Your complaint will be kept private, your identity shielded and the offender dealt with.

does that really work?

[iheartthed]

I think your conception of NYC is very strange.

And, yeah, everyone else on earth [[except for you, apparently) knows that NYC's "downtown" is Manhattan. Just because it isn't specifically referred to as "downtown" doesn't mean it isn't the city center. Obviously Midtown is the very dead-center core of the region. It doesn't have to be called "downtown", which is a term only used in certain cities in the U.S. and Canada.

Philly, for example, has Center City, Charlotte has Uptown, cities in Germany have Centrum, etc. etc. It's all different words for the same thing [[city center).

Manhattan is only equivalent to "downtown" to people who aren't familiar with New York. It is not the equivalent of downtown for people who live in New York. The equivalent to saying you're going "Downtown" in Detroit would be saying that you're going to "Midtown" in New York.

[Islandman]

I think your conception of NYC is very strange.

And, yeah, everyone else on earth [[except for you, apparently) knows that NYC's "downtown" is Manhattan. Just because it isn't specifically referred to as "downtown" doesn't mean it isn't the city center. Obviously Midtown is the very dead-center core of the region. It doesn't have to be called "downtown", which is a term only used in certain cities in the U.S. and Canada.

Philly, for example, has Center City, Charlotte has Uptown, cities in Germany have Centrum, etc. etc. It's all different words for the same thing [[city center).

My "conception" of NYC is spot on, as one New Yorker has already agreed with on this thread.

ANYONE who has lived in NYC knows what I said to be true. NO ONE calls Manhattan downtown, they just use downtown and uptown for stating direction.

The term you are looking for is: Are you going into "the city"? THAT is term people more often than not use for Manhattan, even people that live in the other boroughs that are part of NYC use the term "the city" for Manhattan.

I've also already heard your opinion of Charlotte; another place I have also lived. You were wrong there too comparing "Uptown Charlotte" to Big Beaver Road.

And yeah, I know you've probably been to some places, so have I. Shows how much you are able to glean from your brief visits.

You should stop giving your opinion on places when you certainly have no clue and are spreading disinformation. Driving or flying through a city does not give you the knowledge that living there does.

And please, for the love of God, don't try to lecture on what fucking city centers are. I am quite aware of what they are, where they are, and what they look like.

[kenp]

If your in Jersey or Queens and say Im going to the city then they are referring to Manhattan. But from that point I have always referred to the 6 main regions, upper east side, upper west side, Midtown, West Village, East Village and lower east side.

[Bham1982]

My "conception" of NYC is spot on, as one New Yorker has already agreed with on this thread.

No. No one agreed with your thoughts. Please find one person who thinks NYC's core isn't in Manhattan.

ANYONE who has lived in NYC knows what I said to be true. NO ONE calls Manhattan downtown, they just use downtown and uptown for stating direction.

Yes, I agree, and what is your point? This has nothing to do with the discussion. What do regional naming conventions have to do with whether or not a city has a downtown?

I never said that the formal name for Manhattan is "Downtown NYC". I said that Manhattan is the downtown of the NYC region. In the American context, downtown means city center.

Just because a city calls the city center by another word doesn't mean there isn't a downtown, as if Paris is suddently centerless and a big Livonia because there the exact word "downtown" isn't used to refer to the city center.

The term you are looking for is: Are you going into "the city"? THAT is term people more often than not use for Manhattan, even people that live in the other boroughs that are part of NYC use the term "the city" for Manhattan.

Honestly, you're not even following the conversation. We're talking about city centers, not whether the exact word for city center is "downtown" in every city and every language on the planet.

[MidTownMs]

No. No one agreed with your thoughts. Please find one person who thinks NYC's core isn't in Manhattan.


Yes, I agree, and what is your point? This has nothing to do with the discussion. What do regional naming conventions have to do with whether or not a city has a downtown?

I never said that the formal name for Manhattan is "Downtown NYC". I said that Manhattan is the downtown of the NYC region. In the American context, downtown means city center.

Just because a city calls the city center by another word doesn't mean there isn't a downtown, as if Paris is suddently centerless and a big Livonia because there the exact word "downtown" isn't used to refer to the city center.



Honestly, you're not even following the conversation. We're talking about city centers, not whether the exact word for city center is "downtown" in every city and every language on the planet.

You're not following the conversation either. The OP asked why Wal-Mart has not explored any urban Detroit locations, following an announcement that a store might open in Southfield. Not whether or not Manhattan is downtown NYC.

[MidTownMs]

No. No one agreed with your thoughts. Please find one person who thinks NYC's core isn't in Manhattan.


Yes, I agree, and what is your point? This has nothing to do with the discussion. What do regional naming conventions have to do with whether or not a city has a downtown?

I never said that the formal name for Manhattan is "Downtown NYC". I said that Manhattan is the downtown of the NYC region. In the American context, downtown means city center.

Just because a city calls the city center by another word doesn't mean there isn't a downtown, as if Paris is suddently centerless and a big Livonia because there the exact word "downtown" isn't used to refer to the city center.



Honestly, you're not even following the conversation. We're talking about city centers, not whether the exact word for city center is "downtown" in every city and every language on the planet.

You're not following the conversation either. The OP asked why Wal-Mart has not explored any Detroit locations. Not whether Manhattan is "downtown" NYC and what other cities call "downtown."

[Islandman]

Neither one of you is following the conversation.

My comment was just an aside as to how in cities with a great transportation system, placing all new business and development around a downtown core was irrelevant since said city has a great transportation system where development can happen anywhere.

That devolved into someone trying to explain to me what a downtown is, and how Manhattan happens to be one. Now the word "downtown" has been changed to "core" bhamstrung, as if that was the argument.

Clear enough? I'd post my initial post saying the above, but it wouldn't make any difference to some people, and I've already stopped giving a shit at the righteous ignorance of some posters on here.


Next time any of you are in NYC, jump in a cab, tell 'em to take you downtown, and let me know what your fare ends up being, and where you end up.

[Wesley Mouch]

Tell that to the Ham Shop across Monroe.

Should the Ham Shop close because of BWW, it will be because:

1) Their customers didn't like them enough to go there, preferring BWW. [[That's called marketplace.)

2) They are undercapitalized and/or are taking too much cash from the business. Thus, they can't survive a few months/years with a drop in business brought on by BWW. If they have used their past good business to build up some wealth, and not buy new houses and boats, then they'll be around the BWW brings even more people to the neighborhood, and they will truly be rich.

Blaming a new competitor for a business failure is almost always a mistake.

This is all just Econ 201.

[Bham1982]

Next time any of you are in NYC, jump in a cab, tell 'em to take you downtown, and let me know what your fare ends up being, and where you end up.

I'd end up in Manhattan, probably south of 14th Street, which is why your initial post was so odd.

Re. your larger point, transit actually has the opposite effect. A large heavy rail system tends to cluster development rather than spread it out. Downtowns, very generally speaking, are reinforced by high capacity, fixed-route transit corridors.

[Bad Brains]

Anyone who shops at Walmart is part of the problem. On a personal level, I despise anyone who shops at that place.

[Hermod]

Anyone who shops at Walmart is part of the problem. On a personal level, I despise anyone who shops at that place.

You obviously never lived in a small town with very limited shopping options before an Ames, Zayre, K-mart, or Walmart opened.

[Bad Brains]

You obviously never lived in a small town with very limited shopping options before an Ames, Zayre, K-mart, or Walmart opened.

I'm only talking about Walmart. I try to avoid any type of big-box store in general, but Walmart is the one I refuse to ever go too. Garbage company that treats their employees like crap, run by scumbag Billionaires.

[Jimaz]

The problem is that shopping options aren't limited until after Walmart opens. That's their whole business model. Walmart doesn't open new stores in commercial desserts. After Walmart drives out the local businesses, the local consumers have no choice but to shop at Walmart.

[iheartthed]

I'd end up in Manhattan, probably south of 14th Street, which is why your initial post was so odd.

Re. your larger point, transit actually has the opposite effect. A large heavy rail system tends to cluster development rather than spread it out. Downtowns, very generally speaking, are reinforced by high capacity, fixed-route transit corridors.

The core of the New York region is not below 14th Street in Manhattan; it's centered between 30th and 60th Streets in Manhattan. So asking a cab to take you downtown in New York would not in fact get you "downtown".

[Wheels]

Downtown in Manhattan is only a term relative to where you are standing, Downtown is south Uptown is North. End of story!

[Hermod]

I'm only talking about Walmart. I try to avoid any type of big-box store in general, but Walmart is the one I refuse to ever go too. Garbage company that treats their employees like crap, run by scumbag Billionaires.

You wnt to see employees treated like crap, try working for a "mom and pop" in a "traditional downtown". No benefits, no time-clock, "whoops we didn't make much this week so can't pay you".

[jj84]

I'm only talking about Walmart. I try to avoid any type of big-box store in general, but Walmart is the one I refuse to ever go too. Garbage company that treats their employees like crap, run by scumbag Billionaires.

How are they different than any other big box company, excluding Costco and to a lesser degree Menards? I would say they are a MUCH better company when it comes to treating Employees that what Lambert did/has done to KMart/Sears Employees, shareholders, and communities they were in. What about Meijer, that is a family company who's employees make what the people at Wal-mart make and is run by Billionaires its the same thing.

If Traffic is such a HUGE problem along Southfield why won't the Communities let RCOC widen the road and put the median in like they have proposed for the past 15 years?

All that being said I don't understand why Southfield doesn't toss a bunch of money at Walmart and have them transform Northland into a lifestyle center like in Allen Park. With Target, Walmart and Macy's. and a Strip style lifestyle center you could really clean the area up and make it a regional Shopping destination once again. Use Brownfield money like Allen Park did for Fairlane Green [[the Hill) and recreate that on the Northland Property. It would be a wonderful redevelopment project, and if Northland is already in a TIF all the better.

[gazhekwe]

All that being said I don't understand why Southfield doesn't toss a bunch of money at Walmart and have them transform Northland into a lifestyle center like in Allen Park. With Target, Walmart and Macy's. and a Strip style lifestyle center you could really clean the area up and make it a regional Shopping destination once again. Use Brownfield money like Allen Park did for Fairlane Green [[the Hill) and recreate that on the Northland Property. It would be a wonderful redevelopment project, and if Northland is already in a TIF all the better.

Now you're talking. Perfect spot. And it is already all set up for traffic, with no immediately adjacent residential area.