Wal-Mart wants to open store in Southfield [Voted Down by Sfld Council]

[MidTownMs]

I would like to see ANYTHING in the strip mall @ Jefferson & St. Jean...

I used to work at the half-way house across from that strip mall back in 2007 even then the only thing missing was tunbleweeds. When the Farmer Jack left it was all over.

[Hermod]

I think this is a very accurate observation that gets at one of the frequent points of discussion on this forum- the freedom of the automobile vs. the freedom of public transit. Some people primarily see the freedom of the automobile that impacts our region- e.g. if you are going shopping by car [[whether your own car or riding with someone else, like a friend or family member), you will use your freedom to drive to the store/location/demographic that appeals to you. If a store is dirty, busy, not cool, or not filled with your bunch of cool people, you will often take a few more minutes to drive to the one that better suits how you feel. This also means that if a store [[or even its demographics) are not up to snuff [[in the eye of the shopper), people will go to a different store. Thus, a shopper from Highland Park could end up at the Walmart in South Livonia, North Livonia, Novi, Troy, Sterling Heights, or Commerce Township [[where I was shopping with my friend from Highland Park and ran into her brother who lived in the same house at the time, and unbeknownst to her, drove up there to go shopping as well). This individual freedom causes uncertainty and change in trade patterns, and points up the migration and abandonment in our region. It also fails to leverage the population effectively for transit, as everyone goes to unpredictable places in all directions to shop and go to work, and even worse, changes exactly where from year to year, making transit difficult to build and execute successfully. This may explain some of the criticism of this aspect of the region, because we have a lot of people, which could make transit viable, but our chosen behavior with automobiles to drive so randomly to shop, work, and visit friends, makes it hard to use full size buses on fixed routes, much less build a heavy rail subway.

Bingo! The auto culture leads people to go shopping where it is most pleasant even if they have to go out of their way to do it. If a store in Mt Clemens tends to get "ghettoized", the shoppers in Mt Clemens will just go to the same store up on Gratiot and 23 Mile. Walmart knows that Detroit shoppers will go to a Walmart in the inner burbs, but shoppers in the inner burbs won't go to a Walmart in Detroit.

Here in Flroida, the Walmart closest to me [[about three miles) is very small and dirty [[the Port-au-Prince Walmart as it is affectionately known), but there are four [[soon to be five) Walmarts within a ten mile radius from me that i can patronize.

The JC Penney about a mile away cannot hold a candle to the JC Penney about 12 miles away.

Not being tied to public transit, I can exercise my freedom of choice.

Planning a truly integrated and successful transit system for SE Michigan will be complicated. It is not like New York where everybody wants to go downtown.

[gazhekwe]

@Vic_Doucette, no Don Fracassi has been out of that store for many years. His son had it for awhile but they sold it.

[iheartthed]

The JC Penney about a mile away cannot hold a candle to the JC Penney about 12 miles away.

Not being tied to public transit, I can exercise my freedom of choice.

Planning a truly integrated and successful transit system for SE Michigan will be complicated. It is not like New York where everybody wants to go downtown.

Your freedom is an illusion.

If JCPenney won't properly maintain the store in your neighborhood then why would you drive 30 minutes out of your way to spend your money with that company in a place where the tax dollars won't even benefit your community?

[Islandman]

Bingo! The auto culture leads people to go shopping where it is most pleasant even if they have to go out of their way to do it. If a store in Mt Clemens tends to get "ghettoized", the shoppers in Mt Clemens will just go to the same store up on Gratiot and 23 Mile. Walmart knows that Detroit shoppers will go to a Walmart in the inner burbs, but shoppers in the inner burbs won't go to a Walmart in Detroit.

Here in Flroida, the Walmart closest to me [[about three miles) is very small and dirty [[the Port-au-Prince Walmart as it is affectionately known), but there are four [[soon to be five) Walmarts within a ten mile radius from me that i can patronize.

The JC Penney about a mile away cannot hold a candle to the JC Penney about 12 miles away.

Not being tied to public transit, I can exercise my freedom of choice.

Planning a truly integrated and successful transit system for SE Michigan will be complicated. It is not like New York where everybody wants to go downtown.

There is no "downtown" in NYC, that is what is so great about it and what a great transit system has done for that city.

[ArmDetroit]

Why does a post about Walmart [[A company killing the American dream) wanting to open a store in a Southfield [[a major player in the downfall of Detroit) get four pages of comments? I understand that most of those comments were regarding the lack of retail in Detroit, but I've only been reading this site for a few months and have seen that topic discussed numerous times on other threads.

[Bham1982]

There is no "downtown" in NYC, that is what is so great about it and what a great transit system has done for that city.

Really? No downtown in NYC? Could have fooled me.

Is Manhattan a figment of my imagination?

[Bham1982]

Why does a post about Walmart [[A company killing the American dream) wanting to open a store in a Southfield [[a major player in the downfall of Detroit) get four pages of comments?

Because this is DetroitYes, and Southfield, last I checked, is part of Detroit.

[Wheels]

Really? No downtown in NYC? Could have fooled me.

Is Manhattan a figment of my imagination?

Is Manhattan downtown NYC in your imagination?

[AUSSIE]

Walmart have been sniffing around Australia, so far no plans, they would find it tough.

Costco opened in 09', have 3 stores here, and building more

In Australia its really a 2 horse race, Coles and Woolworths, they are a duopoly and screw so much money out of the population and are bastards to deal with, they are into every retail field

Cheers

[gazhekwe]

I got this telephone message today:

"Rainbow Force this Monday January twenty first for prayer vigil for the stop gun violence in honor of Doctor Martin Luther King Junior Day. The vigil will be held at the corner of Twelve Mile and Southfield at the former site of Saint Bede's Church and the proposed side of the future Walmart. Stand with us against gun violence and to oppose business practices of Walmart which is the number one seller of guns in America. The vigil will be at five pm and will be outside. So please dress accordingly."

[ArmDetroit]

Because this is DetroitYes, and Southfield, last I checked, is part of Detroit.

So you're saying that part of the DetroitYes mission is keep tabs on Walmart? Don't quote me on this but I highly doubt that the Walmart that opened in Canton two years ago got it's own thread; much less a four page one. And going by your idea of Detroit, Canton is as much "a part of Detroit" as Southfield.

I'm not knocking anybody on this site but there are A LOT better things happening in and around Detroit than the POSSIBILITY of a new Walmart.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-Redevelopment

While there are a number of Rosey Senario folks on DYES, I often think that most people here like to complain more than comment on positive developments. There is no shortage of moaning about the impending tear down of the Charlevoix Hotel, and yet the renovation of six historic apartment buildings in the New Center does not elicit any comments, other than someone starting an additional [[also commentless) thread on the same subject.

Why don't we celebrate the progress a bit more?

The same applies here. Celebrate REAL progress, not Walmarts global takeover.

[Shollin]

Apparently people are interested in what goes on outside of the city limits. If there is so much going on in Detroit, then start a thread about it.

I also guess I can't post here since I live outside the city limits in one of those evil suburbs that ruined Detroit by offering safe streets and working lights.

[MidTownMs]

Apparently people are interested in what goes on outside of the city limits. If there is so much going on in Detroit, then start a thread about it.

I also guess I can't post here since I live outside the city limits in one of those evil suburbs that ruined Detroit by offering safe streets and working lights.

I guess I shouldn't be posting here either since I abandoned not only the city but the entire state after living in Detroit for 64 years.

[eastland]

Your freedom is an illusion.

If JCPenney won't properly maintain the store in your neighborhood then why would you drive 30 minutes out of your way to spend your money with that company in a place where the tax dollars won't even benefit your community?

The same reason people in Grosse pointe go to the Target in Clinton Township instead of the one next door in Harper Woods -- perceived safety.

[Shollin]

The same reason people in Grosse pointe go to the Target in Clinton Township instead of the one next door in Harper Woods -- perceived safety.

It isn't perceived. Car jackings and shootings are becoming more common at Eastland. Speaking of Eastland shootings, I just read how Grosse Pointe police had to help break up a brawl at a Harper Woods court during a trial of a 2010 Eastland murder.

[ArmDetroit]

Apparently people are interested in what goes on outside of the city limits. If there is so much going on in Detroit, then start a thread about it.

I also guess I can't post here since I live outside the city limits in one of those evil suburbs that ruined Detroit by offering safe streets and working lights.

You sure do get defensive don't you buddy? I understand that this site is about the entire metro area [[Windsor included), so discussion of upcoming development is expected. I simply don't understand the four pages worth about a fucking Walmart.

Don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions assuming that my beef with Southfield is about safe streets and working street lights [[typical suburban talking point). I was referring to the Southfield Town Center which was constructed with every intent to steer companies away from Detroits business district. The results of which left a desolate, mostly empty downtown Detroit through the 90's up until the recent revival of the past few years.

I have no problem with the suburbs, I was raised in Westland. Though over the years I've noticed that a lot of you eastsiders are some uptight, finger pointing, holier than thou, all around nasty people.

[gazhekwe]

AD, when Town Center was built, businesses were already flowing out of Detroit. Southfield was interested in capturing some of the overflow. Troy also grew steadily for the same reason. Detroit's problem was that businesses were leaving. The solution at the time was to build the Renaissance Center, a fortress that did not encourage downtown development.

[MidTownMs]

You sure do get defensive don't you buddy? I understand that this site is about the entire metro area [[Windsor included), so discussion of upcoming development is expected. I simply don't understand the four pages worth about a fucking Walmart.

Don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions assuming that my beef with Southfield is about safe streets and working street lights [[typical suburban talking point). I was referring to the Southfield Town Center which was constructed with every intent to steer companies away from Detroits business district. The results of which left a desolate, mostly empty downtown Detroit through the 90's up until the recent revival of the past few years.

I have no problem with the suburbs, I was raised in Westland. Though over the years I've noticed that a lot of you eastsiders are some uptight, finger pointing, holier than thou, all around nasty people.

Ok so Walmart got four pages of posts. A wing joint that's opening downtown got six pages of posts. What exactly is your point?

[Vic_doucette]

there are A LOT better things happening in and around Detroit than the POSSIBILITY of a new Walmart.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-Redevelopment


The same applies here. Celebrate REAL progress, not Walmarts global takeover.

Gee. I thought my opposition to WalMart was obvious. I thought the others who didn't like the idea of a huge shopping plaza at an intersection that was already very busy and dangerous were obvious. Maybe we needed to explain ourselves better. Or maybe you need to read ALL the words.

[Hermod]

Gee. I thought my opposition to WalMart was obvious. I thought the others who didn't like the idea of a huge shopping plaza at an intersection that was already very busy and dangerous were obvious. Maybe we needed to explain ourselves better. Or maybe you need to read ALL the words.

Opposition to any Walmart located anywhere is a normal knee-jerk political reaction. Many of the people dreaming up opposition to a Walmart in Southfield [[traffic, near schools, wetlands on site, habitat of the seven-toed orange frog, light pollution, etc) would be creaming in their pants at the idea of Costco wanting to build on the same site.

[Richard]

Your freedom is an illusion.

If JCPenney won't properly maintain the store in your neighborhood then why would you drive 30 minutes out of your way to spend your money with that company in a place where the tax dollars won't even benefit your community?

The problem in Fla is the immigration from other countries tends to congregate in a certain section ,that section after awhile begins to resemble where they came from in all aspects,so your choice is either learn another language,or deal with living in a situation that most would not .

Try going into a CVS where nobody speaks English and see how long it is before you choose a different location,I relocated because it became tiring emailing corporations and asking them to post notices on the front door referring to who their customer should be.Kinda hard to support local in those conditions.I agree with your post ,just a little explanation as to why things are as they are.

[gazhekwe]

Costco on the same site, NO we would not want that for the same reason, traffic is already an issue at that corner. Until they come up with a way to deal with the traffic, the site needs to stay relatively low usage. A School, A church, both of which have expressed interest, would be better. Let one or both in, and meantime, work on the traffic situation so a more profitable use can be addressed in the future.

[ArmDetroit]

Ok so Walmart got four pages of posts. A wing joint that's opening downtown got six pages of posts. What exactly is your point?

Settle down and drink your metamucil with a slice of warm toast Ms. "I abandoned the city after 64 years".

A wing joint opening downtown isn't going to force other businesses in the community to close.

[DetroitPlanner]

A wing joint opening downtown isn't going to force other businesses in the community to close.

Tell that to the Ham Shop across Monroe.