Wal-Mart wants to open store in Southfield [Voted Down by Sfld Council]

[Shollin]

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

Except it happens with much more frequency in Detroit. These companies are here to make money. If there was money to be made in Detroit they would go there.

[Wheels]

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

Are you serious? Did you see the link in my post above? Kmart in Detroit was robbed by using bolt cutters to remove a display case with $24,000.00 in jewelry. That can only happen in Detroit!! Put your race card back in the deck and smell the coffee.

[poobert]

The irony, is, indeed that millions of Detroiters' dollars [[law abiding folks which make up the majority of the citizens of the city) get spent outside the city because the retailers won't locate in the city.

I mean, I try to shop in the city as much as possible and know of all the spots. However it's impossible not to make a monthly Target or Meijer run. Where the hell else am I supposed to go? I live on the eastside, I'm not going to drive 45 minutes to 7 and Telegraph to go to Kmart.

Obviously they have very good reason for not locating in the city. The criminals know that they have the run of the show here. How do all the drugstores make it work, then? Just because they're smaller, easier to keep watch over? There is a CVS in every corner of the 'hood. The big boxes could make some money if they would adapt.

[gazhekwe]

Wait, I just got a message on my phone that Southfield City Council will be hearing this on Tuesday, January 28. Apparently they discussed it at Committee of the Whole today.

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/...sey=nav%7Chead

[jackie5275]

There is a CVS in every corner of the 'hood. .

How many of them have been crashed into with folks trying to steal the ATM?

[poobert]

How many of them have been crashed into with folks trying to steal the ATM?

All? I'd say all.

[Kevgoblue]

WalMart also said that it would be paying about $300,000 in annual taxes on the property, compared to the zero-tax status the property now has. But City Council member Joan Seymour pointed out that the city would only get about $100,000 of that, which would be just sufficient to hire exactly one new police officer. I suspect that the added traffic and crime that a development like this would surely bring is more than one cop would be reasonably expected to handle.

So what is the incentive for the city council to approve the proposal? At $100K in taxes they won't even fund the additional city services they'll require. [[Also, what happens to the other $200K?)
Previously it has been shown in countless other instances that WalMarts run local shops out of business. So that will cause a corresponding loss of tax revenue and increase in empty storefronts.

How was it that the city council felt this arrangement would benefit their city / constituants?

[313WX]

How do all the drugstores make it work, then? Just because they're smaller, easier to keep watch over? There is a CVS in every corner of the 'hood.

That, and the fact that 2/3 of the profit margin for CVS/WAlgreens/Rite-Aid comes from prescription drugs. Poor people have their prescriptions paid for entirely by the government [[Medicaid).

Getting beyond the lack of national retailers in the city, people also tend to harp on about supporting the small businesses in the city.

Are you kidding me? Other than a few exception, most of the businesses in the city aren't well kept, the employees are rude/non-chalant and the product selection is mediocre at best.

[Scottathew]

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

The theft\shrinkage issue is not a race issue, it's an economic issue. Detroit is economically much worse off, which is one of several reasons why the crime rate is so high.

To pretend like Detroit doesn't have higher crime and worse police response times is just foolish.

You can't cry racism on this one, no one is trying to say this is a race issue. It's a theft issue. Look at the news, you hear about gas stations getting robbed for the 4th time in a two-week period. Tax-cab drivers getting killed over trivial amounts of cash.

People, regardless of race, are fleeing Detroit because of these issues. For some of the very same reasons businesses do not want to setup in Detroit, especially outside of the designated safe-zones of Downtown and Midtown.

[Vic_doucette]

So what is the incentive for the city council to approve the proposal? At $100K in taxes they won't even fund the additional city services they'll require. [[Also, what happens to the other $200K?)
Previously it has been shown in countless other instances that WalMarts run local shops out of business. So that will cause a corresponding loss of tax revenue and increase in empty storefronts.

How was it that the city council felt this arrangement would benefit their city / constituants?

1. The church property has been essentially abandoned since 2007. There are a couple of small nonprofits using a bit of it, but I call it maybe 15% at most. The property paid no taxes as a church and pays no taxes now. The other money is for other taxes that won't be paid to the city.

2. There are a couple of "underperforming" strip malls [[quote marks used ironically) just to the north of the church along the west side of Southfield Road that would also be taken out as part of the redevelopment.

3. About 300 jobs, most paying minimum wage, few with benefits, quite unlikely to be taken by Southfield residents.

4. Possible unreported incentives, like the one former council member William Lattimore got from Sam Riddle and Mary Waters a few years ago. That one came with a nice trip to a minimum-security hotel in Indiana. It was much like the hotel Monica Conyers recently vacated.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...y_council.html

No. 4 is unkind speculation on my part, of course. But WalMart will spend what it takes to get what it wants, and it threw all sorts of bribes around in Mexico:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,6173032.story

[Bham1982]

This would be a disaster for Southfield, and I really hope they reconsider. I guess their residential property values aren't quite low enough?

First, the traffic on Southfield Road is already ridiculous. It's so bad that it already hurts residential property values, and I'm guessing many businesses are affected [[yes, I know that more traffic is usually good for businesses, but not stop-and-go mayhem off the freeway every afternoon).

Second, there's no need for this, and it will just canibalize existing stores. You already have Target and Meijer, and that area isn't growing, so you're just spinning wheels in terms of money spent in the community.

Third, Walmart, for whatever reason, attracts a trashy crowd. The last thing Southfield needs is the thugs & redneck crowd that appears to infest every inner suburban Walmart [[see Troy Walmart, Livonia Walmart, Sterling Heights Walmart). Watch the arrests pile up, like at Troy Walmart.

Fourth, this is a small site. This is not your normal big-box mega-site. It's a fairly tight site, and adjacent to residential neighborhoods that already get plenty of rush-hour cut-throughs.

[Pickford-Bentler]

The number one source of shrinkage is employee theft. http://www.securitymanagement.com/ne...america-009137 "Customer theft, including shoplifting and organized retail crime [[ORC), was the main cause of shrinkage in most countries, costing retailers $51.5 billion in 2011. In North America, however, dishonest employees were the largest source, accounting for 44 percent of retail shrink -- $47 billion in shrinkage compared to $37.8 billion in 2010. The second largest source of retail shrink came from shoplifting and ORC. The shrinkage rate in North America rose by six percent in 2011." Maybe the part time employee to save money strategy is not so good. " Bamfield said in past research he’s found that there is a positive relationship between employee theft and the use of seasonal or part-time workers. “Many are part time or short term and [working retail] until something else turns up,” he said. In many cases these people have less vested in the company and may not feel bad about swiping merchandise..."

[gazhekwe]

The St. Bede site is too small for WalMart, true, but there has been referenced adding in struggling strip malls. The most likely one is north of St. Bede and has a bagel shop and House of Watchbands among other shops around the corner. The north side of that strip mall does struggle, but the front side does just fine. Farther north is Home Depot and then Target, both of which draw considerable traffic. It would not make sense to add the west side of Southfield, because at that point, Southfield Road is more of a barrier, and could not be readily crossed to access the other side. Would they put more lights? There are already two lights north of that corner, creating a start and stop irritation on the way between 12 and 13 Mile.

I am pretty sure at least three of the council members will be solid NO votes, we just need to get four on board to defeat the plan.

It would make a lot more sense for the region, IMHO, to put Walmart at 8 Mile and Beech.

[firstandten]

Like most problems in our society there's more to it than somebody in the hood coming into the store and stuffing everything inside there coat and getting away before the police can come. Now that does happen but that's not the reason why big box stores don't locate in the hood. Employee theft is just as great if not greater problem than traditional shoplifting. Studies have shown that employee theft is responsible for 48% of all shrinkage with 60% to 80% of that shrinkage happening at the front end registers. Stores struggle more containing the internal theft than the traditional shoplifter. And since many if not most of the employees will come from the hood where the store is located they don't want to invest in places like Detroit

[Wesley Mouch]

National retailers pay zero attention to our issues. They look at statistics.

If you want to change the actions of a national chain, change the reality on the ground.

I would suspect that the planning people at Wal-Mart haven't even noticed that they're not in Detroit. They're too busy successfully delivering the fruits of global economic trade to their public to care about our squabbles.

They'll be in Detroit just as soon as Detroit is a stable and profitable place to do business.

Sometimes the simplest answer is right. Wouldn't surprise me if Wal-Mart tried to contact Detroit's building department to ask a question, and didn't get a return call. Just about then, the Southfield building department called back.

[Shollin]

When I worked at Kmart there was a woman working the service desk who would do returns. She would buy a bunch of merchandise and then on her next shift, take the reciept and process a return. The thing is, she never returned the merchandise and just pocketed the cash. The kicker is, she used her employee discount to buy all the merchandise.

[MidTownMs]

When I worked at Kmart there was a woman working the service desk who would do returns. She would buy a bunch of merchandise and then on her next shift, take the reciept and process a return. The thing is, she never returned the merchandise and just pocketed the cash. The kicker is, she used her employee discount to buy all the merchandise.

Did you report her? Or remain silent?

[Hermod]

Walmart got its start putting stores into low income rural towns. It was only since the 1990s that they began moving from the small towns and rural areas into the burbs. Moving into the cities isn't on their radar at this time. There is less shrinkage in low income rural than there is in low income inner-cities.

[Shollin]

Did you report her? Or remain silent?

Yes. I was the loss prevention guy. We had to make sure we had enough evidence against her and pressed charges. She ended up getting a slap on the wrist because she was 22 and had 5 kids. After she was fired, her mother and sister continued to shop there.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The St. Bede site is too small for WalMart, true, but there has been referenced adding in struggling strip malls. The most likely one is north of St. Bede and has a bagel shop and House of Watchbands among other shops around the corner. The north side of that strip mall does struggle, but the front side does just fine. Farther north is Home Depot and then Target, both of which draw considerable traffic. It would not make sense to add the west side of Southfield, because at that point, Southfield Road is more of a barrier, and could not be readily crossed to access the other side. Would they put more lights? There are already two lights north of that corner, creating a start and stop irritation on the way between 12 and 13 Mile.

I am pretty sure at least three of the council members will be solid NO votes, we just need to get four on board to defeat the plan.

It would make a lot more sense for the region, IMHO, to put Walmart at 8 Mile and Beech.

Very informative article. You seem to know a lot about Southfield, do you live there?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The theft\shrinkage issue is not a race issue, it's an economic issue. Detroit is economically much worse off, which is one of several reasons why the crime rate is so high.

To pretend like Detroit doesn't have higher crime and worse police response times is just foolish.

You can't cry racism on this one, no one is trying to say this is a race issue. It's a theft issue. Look at the news, you hear about gas stations getting robbed for the 4th time in a two-week period. Tax-cab drivers getting killed over trivial amounts of cash.

People, regardless of race, are fleeing Detroit because of these issues. For some of the very same reasons businesses do not want to setup in Detroit, especially outside of the designated safe-zones of Downtown and Midtown.

Another good post. That's 2 in a row

[ThosWolfe]

It would make a lot more sense for the region, IMHO, to put Walmart at 8 Mile and Beech.

One of the 1st KMarts was at that corner. In later years, it was one of the shabbiest in the country. Customers trashed the store and robberies in parking lot were common. Southfield PD was very happy KMart closed that store to move onto Telegraph near 8 Mile. Recall how Livonia contested the new WalMart by Wonderland because the store by Schoolcraft/Middlebelt was so dirty and trouble prone?

[iheartthed]

Moving into the cities isn't on their radar at this time

That's completely false. Wal Mart has already built in Chicago and Baltimore. Wal Mart has been trying to build in NYC for a decade but they're being blocked by the activists... So they settled for a location right on the Queens/Nassau County border to attract as many Queens and Brooklyn residents as possible. And that Wal Mart is as ghetto as any Target or K Mart in an inner ring suburb of Detroit -- it's the same Wal Mart where the security guard was killed in the stampede on Black Friday several years ago.

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit? I know the knee jerk response is that New York residents have more disposable income than Detroit residents. While that stat is "true", it's not the reason. The likely Wal Mart shoppers in New York really aren't all that demographically different than the ones who live in Detroit. Hedge fund traders living in Manhattan aren't shopping at Wal Mart. Trustafarian hipsters living in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, aren't shopping at Wal Mart. Working class residents in the Bronx, outer Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island are the potential Wal Mart shoppers and many of these people look a lot like potential Wal Mart shoppers who live in Detroit.

Okay, so still, why does Wal Mart want to be in New York but not in Detroit, if it's targeting the same types of people, which both cities have in abundance? The difference is that most New Yorkers of any demographics will not leave the borders of New York City to shop. Doesn't matter if they live in the worst ghetto of the Bronx or the most posh area of Manhattan. Most New Yorkers spend their money within New York City. Most Detroiters spend most of their money outside of the city of Detroit. Wal Mart does not have to build in Detroit because Detroiters will shop there regardless. If Wal Mart was missing a Detroit dollar then they'd be building in the city next week.

[Vic_doucette]

I am pretty sure at least three of the council members will be solid NO votes, we just need to get four on board to defeat the plan.

How do you think the votes will line up? I don't know enough about Southfield City Council to have an educated opinion about it.

[Zacha341]

I hear you... IMO, withstanding Home Depot, is a not 'either/or' thing, it's 'both/and'

Big retailers can relocated out of the city with reduced risk and Detroiter's will still shop at their suburban locales.

The Kmart before on seven mile was pure hell at the end. A school teacher was murdered in the parking lot. There were robberies and who knows what in terms of the five-finger discount [[shrink factor)!

It will be interesting how things work out with HF and Meijers.

I think you're a bit misguided. Home Depot has somehow made it work in Detroit for like a decade now, and it was at one point the most profitable location in Michigan.

The simple reason that retailers don't locate in Detroit is because they don't need to in order to get Detroit's money. There is not a single Meijer, Kroger, Wal Mart, Target or Macy's in the city of Detroit. But I dare you to find a Detroit resident who hasn't shopped at one of those stores in the past month.