Judge signs order to demolish Charlevoix Hotel

**Richard** · January-12-13, 06:02 PM

I guess it is over ,they have secured a million to demolish it but no funds to mothball,kinda sad really.I wonder where they found the Million?

On Wednesday, a judge signed an order to tear down the old hotel.

An attorney for the Charlevoix building owner says they want to tear it down too, and have secured a million dollars for demolition.

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/judge-s...#ixzz2HnylZGD0

**Novine** · January-12-13, 08:35 PM

Typical CoD. Don't enforce ordinances, allow buildings go to rot, and then waste millions to tear down what you could never afford to build today.

**softailrider** · January-12-13, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Typical CoD. Don't enforce ordinances, allow buildings go to rot, and then waste millions to tear down what you could never afford to build today.

That area was dead for decades, now it's on its way back and the building is too far gone.

**downtownguy** · January-12-13, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

That area was dead for decades, now it's on its way back and the building is too far gone.

...Says who?

**wolverine** · January-12-13, 11:31 PM

Sad. Vacancy laws need to be better enforced to prevent these buildings from getting this far in a state of disrepair.

The building could be renovated or mothballed. It's certainly a possibility, but probably extremely expensive.

The time to save it came and went. Just a shame there's now another vacant downtown lot.

**mikefmich** · January-13-13, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

That area was dead for decades, now it's on its way back and the building is too far gone.

No such thing as too far gone.....not including a thermal nuclear explosion.

**canuck** · January-12-13, 08:39 PM

Charlevoy, Charlevwah. Detroit, Detrwah.

**royce** · January-13-13, 04:13 AM

FINALLY! You preservationists get all bent out of shape about a building that has been exposed to the elements for decades and is raining bricks on cars and people and you have the nerve to fault the CoD. Hey, how about blaming the damn property owner who let this shit happen? Private entities or individual property owners own the majority of the buildings in a city. The CoD only owns a small fraction and probably rents the rest.

The property owner is the person responsible for keeping up the property. Yeah, the CoD should have fined the owner up the butt, but what usually happens is that the owner finds a lawyer, promises to make repairs and never does, and the building just sits there rotting while the owner, lawyer, and city/county work out a payment plan. Remember the property rights of a private citizen supercede the rights of a government body [[CoD here). Then years later when the property becomes dangerous the CoD or Wayne County steps in and tears it down. Isn't that Higgins POS property on Bagley still standing. Where are the preservationists on that one?

Now, don't get me wrong, I would love to save as many old buildings in downtown Detroit as possible. The David Whitney and the David Stott are two I would love to see renovated. Although they have been vacant for the most part for years, they haven't been exposed to the elements like the Hotel Charlevoix. The owners chose to protect the buildings as best they could. Even the Book Building's owner has made an effort to preserve the building. However, it seems like the owner of the Hotel Charlevoix didn't give a f**k about his building. Hell, there were for sale signs on the building but who in their right mind would want to buy the shit when the windows had been removed, exposing the building to the elements, not for a month, but for decades.

I'm sure the businesses in the area [[Cliff Bells and the Park Bar) put pressure on the city to do something about the Hotel Charlevoix and they rightfully should have. I only wish it had been done years ago. Putting that stupid chain-linked fence around the building was an abomination. An emergency demolition order should have been filed one minute after those bricks came crashing down on the cars below. I'm sure it would have happened if a pedestrian was struck and killed by those bricks.

There still remains many abandoned buildings in downtown Detroit. I believe some can be saved [[Whitney, Stott) and some need to be torn down [[Hotel Charlevoix, Higgins POS on Bagley, and the Metropolitan). I am glad to see Dan Gilbert take over many of these buildings. I have a strong feeling he won't just sit on them and let them rot. Too bad other property owners can't be more diligent with taking care of their properties, but in the end the vacant properties are THEIR properties. Preservationists go after them and not the CoD.

**p69rrh51** · January-13-13, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by royce

FINALLY! You preservationists get all bent out of shape about a building that has been exposed to the elements for decades and is raining bricks on cars and people and you have the nerve to fault the CoD. Hey, how about blaming the damn property owner who let this shit happen? Private entities or individual property owners own the majority of the buildings in a city. The CoD only owns a small fraction and probably rents the rest.

The property owner is the person responsible for keeping up the property. Yeah, the CoD should have fined the owner up the butt, but what usually happens is that the owner finds a lawyer, promises to make repairs and never does, and the building just sits there rotting while the owner, lawyer, and city/county work out a payment plan. Remember the property rights of a private citizen supercede the rights of a government body [[CoD here). Then years later when the property becomes dangerous the CoD or Wayne County steps in and tears it down. Isn't that Higgins POS property on Bagley still standing. Where are the preservationists on that one?

Now, don't get me wrong, I would love to save as many old buildings in downtown Detroit as possible. The David Whitney and the David Stott are two I would love to see renovated. Although they have been vacant for the most part for years, they haven't been exposed to the elements like the Hotel Charlevoix. The owners chose to protect the buildings as best they could. Even the Book Building's owner has made an effort to preserve the building. However, it seems like the owner of the Hotel Charlevoix didn't give a f**k about his building. Hell, there were for sale signs on the building but who in their right mind would want to buy the shit when the windows had been removed, exposing the building to the elements, not for a month, but for decades.

I'm sure the businesses in the area [[Cliff Bells and the Park Bar) put pressure on the city to do something about the Hotel Charlevoix and they rightfully should have. I only wish it had been done years ago. Putting that stupid chain-linked fence around the building was an abomination. An emergency demolition order should have been filed one minute after those bricks came crashing down on the cars below. I'm sure it would have happened if a pedestrian was struck and killed by those bricks.

There still remains many abandoned buildings in downtown Detroit. I believe some can be saved [[Whitney, Stott) and some need to be torn down [[Hotel Charlevoix, Higgins POS on Bagley, and the Metropolitan). I am glad to see Dan Gilbert take over many of these buildings. I have a strong feeling he won't just sit on them and let them rot. Too bad other property owners can't be more diligent with taking care of their properties, but in the end the vacant properties are THEIR properties. Preservationists go after them and not the CoD.

Your lack of knowledge on building design is astonishing! The Hotel Charlevoix is so overbuilt the decades of neglect have not done much to damage the actual structure of the building. The bricks falling while a major nuisance and should be repaired as soon as possible have absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the building they are just decoration.
Also if you did a little bit of reading on here you would find that the owner is in the top 2 or 3 neglectors drawing the most ire on this forum, and yes the CoD is as much to blame as the owner!
Last since you seem to very uniformed this building is one of just a handful of designs left by architect/Detroiter Henry S. Joy.
What we don't need is another stupid parking lot!
A link to few more of Joy's designs for those who have a Facebook account.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6515382&type=3

**rjlj** · January-13-13, 11:05 AM

Yes, well said.

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Your lack of knowledge on building design is astonishing! The Hotel Charlevoix is so overbuilt the decades of neglect have not done much to damage the actual structure of the building. The bricks falling while a major nuisance and should be repaired as soon as possible have absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the building they are just decoration.
Also if you did a little bit of reading on here you would find that the owner is in the top 2 or 3 neglectors drawing the most ire on this forum, and yes the CoD is as much to blame as the owner!
Last since you seem to very uniformed this building is one of just a handful of designs left by architect/Detroiter Henry S. Joy.
What we don't need is another stupid parking lot!
A link to few more of Joy's designs for those who have a Facebook account.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6515382&type=3

**Honky Tonk** · January-13-13, 07:45 AM

YES, I blame the City. I blame the City for incompetent bookeeping. I blame the City for not knowing whether or not Olympia Entertainment owes the City 71 million in royalties. I blame th City for not knowing whether or not Mike Ilitch owes 1.5 million in back taxes. I blame the City for giving him the go ahead to build yet another money making venue without resolving old issues first. I blame the City for having do nothing or non existent employees on their payroll, and no accountability to correct the situation. I blame the City for squandering revenue on useless items. I blame the City for not having a process in place to empty quarters out of parking meters periodically. I blame the City for letting their school system go bankrupt, building new ones, and having low attendance. I blame the City for sending someone out twice a month to tack citations on a decrepit building. I blame the City for not having either the resources, or likely, the know how or the will, to find said owner of said building. I blame the City for not bringing legal action on said owner, and making him accountable for said building violations. Had this been in one of those dreaded, backward suburbs, let's say Southfield for instance, this guy would have had some answering to do for endangering citizens, by dropping bricks on them, years ago. Monies would have been garnished, fines levied, the situation corrected. But this is Detroit, where incompetency and corruption is an art form. So I blame the City. Why? Because no matter how involved I get, or who I vote for, the situation never seems to get better, and I pay one of the highest millages in the area. So you see, I have nothing left but to blame the City, for letting things get this far.

**Gistok** · January-13-13, 10:45 AM

I have to second p69's comments... the Hotel Charlevoix is... like the MCS... so overbuilt, that exposure to the elements hasn't damaged it too badly, except for its' skin. Even the United Artists Building had a rain of bricks come off the building back in the early 1980s, and that was 30 years ago!! It has since undergone a mothballing, that would never been undertaken if it were too far gone for restoration.

So people do need to differentiate the difference [[as in the Wurlitzer's case)... between a building's skin and its' structural soundness.

Here's a postcard image of it before the 1950s edict to secure/remove cornices off of Detroit's high rises. The Charlevoix, worst than most, suffered from that removal....

http://historicdetroit.org/postcards/buildings/2969/

What is sad is that this will further reduce the remaining streetwall of Park Ave., once one of Detroit's most attractive streets in terms of tall buildings. Now there will be such a large gap in that streetwall that Mike Ilitch might as well build his new arena right along [[facing) Park Ave.

**royce** · January-13-13, 11:42 AM

Ok, so it has great bones. As someone said, it would be an expensive undertaking to try and renovate the Hotel Charlevoix. In the meantime, it is an eyesore and a danger to the public. Now, maybe the buttwipe of a property owner will sell the land or get a developer to build a new apartment high-rise on the site. I hear downtown is in need of more housing units.

**Richard** · January-13-13, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by royce

Ok, so it has great bones. As someone said, it would be an expensive undertaking to try and renovate the Hotel Charlevoix. In the meantime, it is an eyesore and a danger to the public. Now, maybe the buttwipe of a property owner will sell the land or get a developer to build a new apartment high-rise on the site. I hear downtown is in need of more housing units.

So now he has secured a million dollars for the demolition,would you say that that property is now worth in excess of a million dollars as a vacant lot?

Or maybe if the securing of the million dollars was through demolition funds given to him by the city and not placed as a lien because when you use fed funds that would be a non requirement.If that was the case would that be right?

Lets face it he has other properties in the same condition that are not mothballed because he does not have the funds,and all of a sudden a million pops up? Again is that even as a vacant property is it worth a million ? Only to me if the million is not coming out of your pocket and is a gift.

There is something going on here that goes deeper then approval for demolition, lots of unanswered questions that need to be answered.

The oldest hotel in the city basically has the historical value of a vacant lot.

**ismoakrack** · January-13-13, 01:05 PM

Who is this judge that signed a demo approval? Can't the council or the city still deny a demo permit?

**Richard** · January-13-13, 01:20 PM

Good question, My biggest concern now is Karla Henderson is head of the building department her experience comes from running a retirement center and the recent rebuilding of Highland Park into the excellent shape it is in today,once the building department deems it not feasible for rehabilitation it has an impact on judges decisions.

This is going to get scary because her thought pattern is simple,if there are no boards on the windows tear it down,she is sitting on the funds to do it ,unlike in the past ,unfortunately her past experience is not in any kind of building experience to make that decision.

There is no thought given to the city's history and its retention of its identity,it plays no part and is seen as bricks and mortar,tear it all down and make way for future development because that thought pattern of the seventies works so well and has proven to be the leading cause of so much development within the city.

**ismoakrack** · January-13-13, 01:27 PM

I thought even the prosaic warehouse behind the hotel was a loss and a terrible waste. Even on the rare occasion a new building is erected on the site of a former structure, it is almost always a fraction of the size of the former building. One building at a time, Detroit is becoming a small town.

**313WX** · January-14-13, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by ismoakrack

I thought even the prosaic warehouse behind the hotel was a loss and a terrible waste. Even on the rare occasion a new building is erected on the site of a former structure, it is almost always a fraction of the size of the former building. One building at a time, Detroit is becoming a small town.

Pretty much this.

Shollin · January-14-13, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Pretty much this.

I figured it was Detroit's rapidly declining population, but yea losing a vacant building is a sign of Detroit becoming a small town.

**313WX** · January-14-13, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

I figured it was Detroit's rapidly declining population, but yea losing a vacant building is a sign of Detroit becoming a small town.

Detroit Future City = Detroit Small Town.

**ismoakrack** · January-15-13, 01:44 AM

Oh Shollin, you never cease to embarrass yourself on this forum

**neavling** · January-15-13, 10:19 AM

For those of you interested in seeing inside the building, I posted photos from two winters ago. You can see the decay of the interior after more than 30 years of sitting vacant. And yes, I know the tired arguments of going inside abandoned buildings. This is the first time I posted the photos to discourage trespassing. Plus, the building is not accessible anymore.

Here are the photos. They are HDR and are too big to post here. http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...cted-building/

Shollin · January-15-13, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by ismoakrack

Oh Shollin, you never cease to embarrass yourself on this forum

It's pretty simple. Smaller population means smaller city. How can a city lose 60% of it's population and over 1 million people and still be considered a large city? If there was demand for these buildings they wouldn't be vacant. The population declines every day.

**Richard** · January-13-13, 01:40 PM

The buildings are an asset to the city in a way, it is a shame for a city that has so much architectural value that is not replicated in other cities to be laid to waste.

90% of all of the currant development is occurring with existing buildings and not vacant land.Granted it would take millions to rehabilitate it but it would also take millions to replace it. What is really the end game in replacing it?

How many people have ever said ,hey lets go to Detroit and check out all of the new buildings,yea high on my list why waste the gas time and energy when you can go anywhere to see new buildings.

That is what happens though one by one they fade away then one day in the future people sit there and say what were they thinking back then?

**rjlj** · January-13-13, 10:51 PM

Very much agreed Richard, I was going to say the same thing. But Karla Henderson's stance is that an empty lot is more attractive to developers than an existing building. The educated and observant know that is complete BS and developers are not building on Detroit vacant lots but re-developing existing buildings and will do so for the next 20 years until it makes sense to build new.

Get ready for a vacant lot for the next 30+ years. The new arena will not be built behind the Fox and all the vacant land is an embarassment.

Originally Posted by Richard

The buildings are an asset to the city in a way, it is a shame for a city that has so much architectural value that is not replicated in other cities to be laid to waste.

90% of all of the currant development is occurring with existing buildings and not vacant land.Granted it would take millions to rehabilitate it but it would also take millions to replace it. What is really the end game in replacing it?

How many people have ever said ,hey lets go to Detroit and check out all of the new buildings,yea high on my list why waste the gas time and energy when you can go anywhere to see new buildings.

That is what happens though one by one they fade away then one day in the future people sit there and say what were they thinking back then?