Shooting in Warrendale

**barnesfoto** · July-05-09, 11:40 PM

"If I were to beat you with my baseball bat, would you blame Louisville Slugger? Or other people who own bats? How 'bout I intentionally hit you with my car..will you sue Dodge for MY actions? "

Thanks for mentioning cars; Because cars, when misused, are capapble of causing injury or death, you may have noticed that besides being required to pay into an insurance pool, car owners are also bound by certain regulations; If that wasn't enough, besides the requirements that you take a test and hold an insurance policy, you are not allowed to drive a formula 1 race car on 1-96. This law is in place despite the fact that you may be a "trained car owner". A reasonable person would argue that you don't need a formula 1 race car to get to work; an extremist would denounce this an act of "car grabbing" and would launch a tirade about the violation of your "rights", and how no limits should be place upon the type of car one is able to drive on 1-96.

Perhaps you have cursed the number of irresponsible car owners whose actions [[speeding, reckless driving, talking on cell phones while driving, DUI, racing, etc) cause your insurance to cost more. Have you written your lawmakers to denounce this horrible injustice? Is there a national organization that denounces the unjust requirement that responsible car owners help cover the costs of less responsible car owners?

Are some people, given their level of irrsponsiblity or the fact that they are insane, actually denied the rights to operate an automobile?

Finally, to address the "apples and oranges" argument, there are almost daily incidents of stray bullets fired by irresonsible gun owners killing people.Try googleing "stray bullet kills" and see how many results you get.
In my old neighborhood, for example there was, a few short years ago, a rash of cases of stray bullets fired by irresponsible gun owners flying through walls and windows and killing people's children, and while I certainly did not excuse the behavior of the "irresponsible gun owners" [[who were surely "responsible gun owners" until they weren't) I couldn't help wonder why no insurance funds were available to the victims, and why the dealer who sells guns to criminals was not also held responsible.

Do you have any examples of Louisville Sluggers tossed by careless baseball players flying through windows and killing people? Or "stray fists" thrown by carelss fist owners flying through windows and killing people's children? How about "stray knives flying through windows and killing people
No?

Well then perhaps you are comparing apples and oranges. There are certainly cases of stray automobiles killing people, but that's why car owners are required to purchase insurance. So why should gun owners be exempt from paying into an insurance pool again? Can you say "Special Rights"?

**WolverinesA2** · July-05-09, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by barnesfoto

Well then perhaps you are comparing apples and oranges. There are certainly cases of stray automobiles killing people, but that's why car owners are required to purchase insurance. So why should gun owners be exempt from paying into an insurance pool again? Can you say "Special Rights"?

You do not have a constitutionally-protected right to drive a car. You DO have a constitutionally-protected right to own a gun. So says the Supreme Court. Why are you having so much trouble understanding that?

Name me ONE other constitutional right that I need to take out "insurance" on in order to exercise. Just one.

Everything you are asking for is blatantly unconstitutional. You sound like a Republican. "Give up these rights and we will guarantee increased safety and security." It's the same fascist rhetoric, you just want to take away a different right. You are no better than Dick Cheney, you both want to sacrifice freedom on the altar of "security."

**terryh** · July-05-09, 04:35 PM

Those kids are growing up in a pressure cooker. More cops [[who is going to monitor the cops) and harsh punitive laws arent going to alleviate the crime problem, liveable and fair wages along with easily accesible and affordable health care are what we should be passionately striving toward.

crawford · July-05-09, 07:47 PM

LOL, yeah, "fair wages" and better medical care are the issue. Just raise the wages at Wal Mart and include dental with the Medicaid and everything will be fine in the hood.

It wouldn't be the fact that there is an entire class of people that is entirely non-functional and guided by a culture of reflexive oppositional nihilism.

**barnesfoto** · July-06-09, 11:00 AM

Shriek! Shriek! A gun hugger brings up planes, I compare regulations regarding planes vs guns. "NO NO,Shriek Shriek!" says another gunhugger! Apples and Oranges! A gunhugger compares cars and guns, and I compare the regulations of automobiles vs. cars. "Shriek Shriek! Cars and guns- apples and oranges" screams another gun hugger! Maybe you all should come up with a united argument on this! So let me get this straight- guns are like airplanes-no they are not.
guns are like cars- no they are not. Guns are just like fists and baseball bats-yeah, right.

Your right to OWNERSHIP is not being challenged. Your level of responsiblity-and the level of responsiblity of firearms dealers is. Sooner or later, that is going to change.

**ZRX Doug** · July-06-09, 11:58 AM

The only one doing any shrieking here is you, Barnes..once again, you've gotten lost in the hyperbole. Try responding to any of the points made.

**Hypestyles** · July-06-09, 12:23 PM

hopefully the perpetrators will be confirmed/found and put on trial..

**Blueidone** · July-06-09, 01:24 PM

All this talk of reasons why this happens...and no one sees the fact that when your life has no value, you see no value in anyone else's life. Generally those who commit these types of crimes are thugs who see no future for themselves other than being a thug. They know that the lifespan of a thug is short, even though they may think it won't happen to them.

The "doomsdayers" of the world go on and on about how either:
1. The economy is going to collapse in on itself and life as we know it will no longer exist;
2. The polar ice caps are melting and we are all going to be flooded off the face of the earth;
3. Global warming is going to kill all of us, shortly after we run out of fossil fuels;
4. The New Madrid fault line is going to cause a huge earthquake and sink us all into oblivion;
and last but not least...
Life is just like a video game...you can shoot people and they will either get up and walk away, or you will never suffer any consequences because you have the invincible code for the game and can't be touched.

Most of these kids have no "family" to lean on...their family is the gang. To be accepted in the family you have to perform certain tasks. Once you perform as you are supposed to, you are in the gang forever. Don't even think about trying to get out.

Sure there are the rare exceptions, but generally this is the way it is. This country has divided itself into only two groups...the haves and the have nots. The have nots have nothing to lose. The haves don't care what the have nots are doing, as long as they stay out of their neighborhood.

It makes me sad to see where this is all leading...I'm glad that I am 60 yrs old and won't live to see it deteriorate much further. I am afraid for my grandchildren and their children.

I don't know what the answer is...I see no clear cut path ahead. We can talk about solutions for the next 20 years...but until parents act like parents, kids listen to their parents and teachers and preachers and counselors; and until the economy is such that everyone can make a livable wage, this type of activity will keep on keepin' on.

**Linda from Detroit** · July-06-09, 04:42 PM

Well said. I couldn't agree with you more.

**firstandten** · July-06-09, 11:27 PM

Couple of things I know people won't like but I feel would motivate some people to behave differently.

1) If convicted of a felony using a gun, a sentence of ten years not two under state law for the gun charge separate from the sentence for the actual offense.

2) A parent responsiblity law which could require the parent of a minor child to do jail time along with the minor to be decided on a case by case basis.

The reason for this is because of the feeling that if you put harsh enough penalties in front of people, they will become accountable for their actions over time. After a few people have been made examples of, the rate of such crimes should drop. One reason public executions were common in the days of the wild west was that people could see justice being served, but also it send a message that this is how you could end up if you steal that horse or rob that bank.

**reddog289** · July-06-09, 11:52 PM

I myself find it pretty sad when there is so much crime around here and the Govenor wants to rent out jail space to California.I know it might be cruel and all that But give offenders longer sentences to not only keep them off the streets but hopefully they might get the point and not f 'up again.People complain about crime Yet when it comes to keeping the crooks behind bars they complain about the high cost involved.
Whatever the reason why this shooting took place the reason is B.S. Blame it on what you want But the same B.S. will be there till it is put out to pasture.

**Fnemecek** · July-07-09, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Blueidone

I don't know what the answer is...I see no clear cut path ahead. We can talk about solutions for the next 20 years...but until parents act like parents, kids listen to their parents and teachers and preachers and counselors; and until the economy is such that everyone can make a livable wage, this type of activity will keep on keepin' on.

Since the beginning of history, there have always been a small subset of parents who were simply crappy parents.

Since the beginning of history, there have always been children who don't listen to their parents and other who they should listen to.

In ancient Mesopotamia, they came up with a system to protect the rest of society from the results of bad parenting or at least to minimize the damage that it creates. It was a little thing known as a police force.

For all practical purposes, it's missing in Detroit today or at least doesn't exist in anywhere near the capacity that it's needed. 9-1-1 calls go largely unanswered.

If you think I'm exaggerating, please keep a couple of things in mind.

The gang that is suspected in the bus stop shooting is also suspected of another shooting that happened a few days earlier. If they were taken off the streets after the first shooting, the shooting last week never would have happened.
The gang that is suspected in the bus stop shooting has also been involved in narcotics trafficking throughout the neighborhood for quite some time. If they were taken off the streets for their drug dealing, the shooting last week never would have happened.

We as a community have a choice to make. We can either start looking at the things that have a proven track record of producing results or we can sit by and watch more of our teens get killed.

Detroit deserves better than this.

Buy American · July-07-09, 11:01 AM

The thugs have too many rights. The victims have none. The police are handcuffed and unable to do their sworn duty because they get criticized, sanctioned, or fired. Tougher laws need to be drafted, stiffer penalties need to be implemented. Parents need to be held responsible for their kids. Fathers need to step up, mothers need to wake up. The gang is family, that's why the kids are drawn to them. If the family structure was stronger the gangs may not have as much power.

**ejames01** · July-07-09, 11:14 AM

What rights are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Buy American

The thugs have too many rights. The victims have none. The police are handcuffed and unable to do their sworn duty because they get criticized, sanctioned, or fired. Tougher laws need to be drafted, stiffer penalties need to be implemented. Parents need to be held responsible for their kids. Fathers need to step up, mothers need to wake up. The gang is family, that's why the kids are drawn to them. If the family structure was stronger the gangs may not have as much power.

Buy American · July-07-09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by ejames01

What rights are you talking about?

No sense in explaining if you have to ask.

**ejames01** · July-07-09, 11:42 AM

Seriously, what rights do criminals have that non-criminals do not? Do you even know any thugs? It seems like you exaggerate almost everything you write on this forum.

Originally Posted by Buy American

No sense in explaining if you have to ask.

**NoHeartAnthony** · July-08-09, 10:06 PM

Watch The Wire.

**thecarl** · July-09-09, 09:40 PM

it's interesting how much of a non-story the whole shooting of seven kids at a bus stop has become. another thing i've noticed is that the two fallen-down light posts that people used as benches for the bus stop have been removed since the shooting. the city needs to be embarrassed before taking cosmetic action on its obvious duties. but hopefully, this ordeal will fade as quickly from memory and newsprint as the hart plaza shooting has.

crawford · July-10-09, 01:22 AM

The Baptist and born-again ministers are capitalists, nothing more.

I doubt most even believe in God. They believe in ripping off old ladies.

There is no profit incentive in fighting "no snitching", so it won't be pushed by all the Detroit bible-thumpers.

**Bobl** · July-10-09, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by crawford

The Baptist and born-again ministers are capitalists, nothing more.

I doubt most even believe in God. They believe in ripping off old ladies.

There is no profit incentive in fighting "no snitching", so it won't be pushed by all the Detroit bible-thumpers.

You are correct. They seem to be on a mission to give support for crooked politicians and perpetuating the "us" vs "them" race card.
This is why I threw out the challenge.
They are not only capitalists, but non tax paying capitalists!

**ejames01** · July-21-09, 09:09 AM

Are the shooters in bracelets yet?

**Fnemecek** · July-21-09, 09:37 AM

No arrests have been made in this case as of yet. [[Well, except for the guy that they had to cut lose for a lack of evidence.)

There also haven't been any arrests made in connection with the second shooting that happened a week later, just a couple blocks from the first shooting.

**Bloomfield Pills** · July-21-09, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

No arrests have been made in this case as of yet. [[Well, except for the guy that they had to cut lose for a lack of evidence.)

There also haven't been any arrests made in connection with the second shooting that happened a week later, just a couple blocks from the first shooting.

Warren Evans is too busy poring over data to determine where the next shooting will occur; he doesn't have time to worry about shootings that happened before he became chief.

Right now, Evans also is considering whether to enlist the aid of Dionne Warwick or Miss Cleo to help him find where the next outbreak of violence will be. So, as you can see, Mr. Evans is preoccupied right now. Get off his back.

**softailrider** · July-21-09, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

No arrests have been made in this case as of yet. [[Well, except for the guy that they had to cut lose for a lack of evidence.)

There also haven't been any arrests made in connection with the second shooting that happened a week later, just a couple blocks from the first shooting.

They never found the guy who shot up Hart Plaza during the fireworks several years ago either. How many witness did they have for that - like about a quarter million?

**SWMAP** · July-23-09, 02:05 PM

"The police don't need to see someone commit a crime in order to make an arrest. There is this thing commonly known as an "investigation". Every police agency on the planet does them, to one degree or another. It's time for DPD to do a lot more of them."

You would not know this from the response that you get when try to discuss a problem with the leadership of the SW District! They always say that they have to see something before they can go after someone that the neighbors can identify [[but usually like "He lives on Porter in that aprtment building and he rides araound in a red Honda, etc)! No investigations have ever been suggested.