$650k for the Wurlitzer Building

**AGinthe313** · January-09-13, 09:23 AM

I recently noticed that the Wurlitzer Building is listed for $650k. I wonder how much it would take [[$$$), to rehab this place into market rate apartments? Any ballpark guesses out there?

http://summitcommercialllc.com/prope...roperty17.html

**AGinthe313** · January-09-13, 09:41 AM

One other comment. Now that Gilbert has a strong presence on Broadway [[Z-structure, Madison, Small Plates Building, Cary Building), it seems like the Wurlitzer and Harvard Square buildings would be great opportunities for him to establish the residential portion of his plan. With that Broadway would be set!

**michimoby** · January-09-13, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by AGinthe313

I recently noticed that the Wurlitzer Building is listed for $650k. I wonder how much it would take [[$$$), to rehab this place into market rate apartments? Any ballpark guesses out there?

http://summitcommercialllc.com/prope...roperty17.html

....anyone else from DetroitYes willing to pool in some cash and make this a joint purchase?

**AUSSIE** · January-09-13, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by michimoby

....anyone else from DetroitYes willing to pool in some cash and make this a joint purchase?

No to this joint, YES to 8200 Mack Ave.!

Cheers

**Gistok** · January-10-13, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by AUSSIE

No to this joint, YES to 8200 Mack Ave.!

Cheers

You probably don't realize that Broadway Ave. in downtown Detroit is anchored by the $42 million restoration of the Capitol Theatre as the new Detroit Opera House [[plus $20+ million parking garage)....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/decojim/2749434423/

... and by the Broadway Historic District... [[with the $650K Wurlitzer Building in the distant left before the tall Broderick Tower)....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...c_District.jpg

Your fixation on 8200 Mack Ave., is well meaning I'm sure... but there's a saying in real estate... location... location... location... you can do anything you want to that building, but you WILL NOT be able to coax a lot of people to that part of the city very easily... no matter how beautiful the architecture.

... whereas a building [[needing a LOT of work) right across the street from the Detroit Opera House [[where the 3 tenors have performed, as well as opera stars from around the world).... is a much safer bet...

**Honky Tonk** · January-10-13, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by AUSSIE

No to this joint, YES to 8200 Mack Ave.!

Cheers

Honestly, AUSSIE, I'm going to tell you what someone should have told me when I invested in Detroit. You're wasting your time and likely, your money. That area is bombed out, and becoming worse daily. It's probably still a great, salvagable, building, but your dream of a functioning micro-brewery, has a snowball's chance in hell of developing into a functioning business. If it couldn't make it as a church, which that and a party store, is one of the more lucrative businesses in Detroit, it's not going to make it as a micro-brewery. You simply do not have the clientele in that neighborhood to support it.

**AUSSIE** · January-10-13, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Honestly, AUSSIE, I'm going to tell you what someone should have told me when I invested in Detroit. You're wasting your time and likely, your money. That area is bombed out, and becoming worse daily. It's probably still a great, salvagable, building, but your dream of a functioning micro-brewery, has a snowball's chance in hell of developing into a functioning business. If it couldn't make it as a church, which that and a party store, is one of the more lucrative businesses in Detroit, it's not going to make it as a micro-brewery. You simply do not have the clientele in that neighborhood to support it.

Thanks for the reality [i know!] check...click!

But as they say "If you build it, he will come"

I have new information today, that the current $150k ask is still too expensive

Did you see the story where one dude purchased a church for $2500?

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...-just-2500.php

Of course he now wants to resell it for $79k, worth a bash, we shall see how he goes with that, he nicked it!

Cheers

**davewindsor** · January-10-13, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by AUSSIE

Thanks for the reality [i know!] check...click!

But as they say "If you build it, he will come"

I have new information today, that the current $150k ask is still too expensive

Did you see the story where one dude purchased a church for $2500?

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...-just-2500.php

Of course he now wants to resell it for $79k, worth a bash, we shall see how he goes with that, he nicked it!

Cheers

He thinks he can flip a historically registered church for $79K? He's insane.

The Diocese of London has a nice historical church--Our Lady of the Rosary at Riverside and Drouillard--for sale for $1 right across the river with a nice view of downtown Detroit and Belle Isle. http://wp.dol.ca/webportal/diocese/news_detail/1/9/218

Rumoured that Al Capone personally visited and donated money to the Church to keep the lights on at night to help with rumrunning.

Only condition: need to provide proof of funds that you have $1.8m to do the needed repairs to this heritage church and sign a contract that you'll do them. And that church is in really good shape and it sits an a million dollar parcel of land.

There are so many former catholic churches in Detroit and Windsor that can be had for next to nothing. Churches also tend to be on some of the best parcels in the city and we've had some of them knocked down for plazas, but once it has a heritage designation, you can't knock it down and they're too expensive to maintain. It becomes a white elephant.

**davewindsor** · January-09-13, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by AGinthe313

I recently noticed that the Wurlitzer Building is listed for $650k. I wonder how much it would take [[$$$), to rehab this place into market rate apartments? Any ballpark guesses out there?

http://summitcommercialllc.com/prope...roperty17.html

The price is a carpet bagging rip off. Take off two zeros from the asking price and that's probably what it's worth [[land value - demo). The building is crumbling. A 40lbs piece of concrete wall cap fell off last year and crashed onto the roof of a neighbouring building damaging it. It's been vacant for decades and received over 100 blight violation tickets since 2008. I don't which one is more dangerous--this one or the Hotel Charveloix. http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/local_n...rous-buildings

**rondinjp** · January-09-13, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

The price is a carpet bagging rip off. Take off two zeros from the asking price and that's probably what it's worth [[land value - demo). The building is crumbling. A 40lbs piece of concrete wall cap fell off last year and crashed onto the roof of a neighbouring building damaging it. It's been vacant for decades and received over 100 blight violation tickets since 2008. I don't which one is more dangerous--this one or the Hotel Charveloix. http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/local_n...rous-buildings

That's not entirely true. While some of the exterior facade is damaged and will need extensive work to fix, it is my understanding that structurally the building is in good shape and could be rehabbed into condo's.

**davewindsor** · January-09-13, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by rondinjp

That's not entirely true. While some of the exterior facade is damaged and will need extensive work to fix, it is my understanding that structurally the building is in good shape and could be rehabbed into condo's.

Structurally sound just like the Lafayette? Nothing will happen to it for $650K. If that price was anywhere near what it's worth, Gilbert would have scooped it up before it hit an online listing. This is something that would have to be offered to a developer for $1 by the DEGC with a whole bunch of tax credits and historical grants to subsidize it. I think it's just gonna sit there at a ridiculous price and get in even worse shape.

**davewindsor** · January-09-13, 10:25 AM

Oh what am I thinking, the DEGC can offer the Metropolitan Building to a developer for $1 with a whole bunch of tax credits and historical grants instead of this ripoff, yet there are still no takers for the Metropolitan.

**davewindsor** · January-09-13, 10:48 AM

What really gets to me is that the lawyer who owns it bought it vacant in 1995 for $211K. He's married to a judge. He's had it for almost two decades and done nothing with it. You have two lawyer's incomes. In 2003, he was asking over $2m for it. http://historicdetroit.org/building/wurlitzer-building/ And he thinks it's worth $650K in the condition he let it fall to today. The guy is as bad as Matty Moroun, well at least Moroun is starting to put money into stabilizing the MCS, not this SOB.

**rjlj** · January-09-13, 11:38 AM

There was no proof that the Lafayette Building was structurally unsound. The DEGC took advantage of an absent mayor and tore it down at the request of Book Cadillac, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the Wurlitzer.
The Wurlitzer will sit unless it is offered at a reasonable price to someone will invest in re-developing it.

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Structurally sound just like the Lafayette? Nothing will happen to it for $650K. If that price was anywhere near what it's worth, Gilbert would have scooped it up before it hit an online listing. This is something that would have to be offered to a developer for $1 by the DEGC with a whole bunch of tax credits and historical grants to subsidize it. I think it's just gonna sit there at a ridiculous price and get in even worse shape.

**Gistok** · January-09-13, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

The price is a carpet bagging rip off. Take off two zeros from the asking price and that's probably what it's worth [[land value - demo). The building is crumbling. A 40lbs piece of concrete wall cap fell off last year and crashed onto the roof of a neighbouring building damaging it. It's been vacant for decades and received over 100 blight violation tickets since 2008. I don't which one is more dangerous--this one or the Hotel Charveloix. http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/local_n...rous-buildings

How is that any different from the Broderick Tower? ...which had sidewalk protecting scaffolding put up years ago to keep the building chunks that fell down from it from falling and killing anyone. Or the United Artists Building who's SW facing side along Clifford Ave. had a hail of bricks falling off the building in the 1980s, severely damaging several cars, and causing that 1 block stretch of Clifford Ave. to be closed off for a few years... and now current owner Ilitch has spent millions on new roof, window and interior cleanup and facade stabilization?

Sometimes I think people give up too easily just because a buildings skin causes issues when its' "bones" may still be intact.

**rjlj** · January-09-13, 11:33 AM

People give up too easliy becuase they don't know what they are talking about and don't make decisions based on facts.

Originally Posted by Gistok

Sometimes I think people give up too easily just because a buildings skin causes issues when its' "bones" may still be intact.

**dmike76** · January-09-13, 10:14 AM

I'm totally with you on this one, Gistok. That is a beautiful bulding with good bones. There's no reason to demolish it. Besides, I don't think the guy's gonna get $650K for it and it sounds to me like he's probably tired of dealing with the hassle. There may be some wiggle room with that price. I SMELL A KICKSTARTER CAMPAIGN!

**drjeff** · January-09-13, 12:09 PM

After ignoring 100 citations how is the Wurlitzer owner not in jail for contempt of court? Isn't this pretty much the definition of contempt of court?

**cman710** · January-09-13, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

After ignoring 100 citations how is the Wurlitzer owner not in jail for contempt of court? Isn't this pretty much the definition of contempt of court?

Typically, a judge can hold someone in contempt in connection with a hearing or trial, or for disobeying a court order. So, had there been some kind of proceeding against the owner in court, and the result of the hearing was that a judge issued a court order against the owner to fix the violations, then the court could hold the owner in contempt if he disobeyed the court order. Here, though, there has been no court order, so there is no contempt of court.

**AGinthe313** · January-09-13, 01:05 PM

Curbed picked-up on this thread and did a little research, and they are saying that the listing has expired. The owners are now asking 850k, or maybe not selling it at all. OK owners and agents of the Wurlitzer, give us all a break. Maybe Summit Commercial Real Estate should update thier website!?

From Curbed...

It's hard to love a building that enjoys mercilessly lobbing bricks at Downtown residents, pedestrians, and People Movers. But many of us do anyway, so it was exciting to see that the Wurlitzer has chopped its price: the listing now reads $650K. But wait! According agent Jerome Eagger at Summit Commercial Real Estate, the pricechop has expired. The owners [[Wayne County Circuit Judge Daphne Mean Curtis and her husband Paul Curtis) lowered the price temporarily "to see if anyone would bite." When no one did, they inexplicably raised the price back up to the original $850K, and have since decided that the building might not even be for sale. "We're not actively marketing it", said Jerome. "The owners are considering some other options." Here's an option, owners: Call Dan Gilbert while he still has his checkbook out.http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...about-much.php

**downtownguy** · January-09-13, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by cman710

Typically, a judge can hold someone in contempt in connection with a hearing or trial, or for disobeying a court order. So, had there been some kind of proceeding against the owner in court, and the result of the hearing was that a judge issued a court order against the owner to fix the violations, then the court could hold the owner in contempt if he disobeyed the court order. Here, though, there has been no court order, so there is no contempt of court.

From a Metro Times article dated March 6, 2012... Cman, wouldn't this meet the standard you described?

Last November, attorneys for the city filed a motion asking Judge Colombo to find Curtis in contempt for failing to repair the building as ordered by the court. The judge declined to do that.

http://metrotimes.com/news/wurlitzer...ling-1.1281821

**Ann Perkins** · January-09-13, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by cman710

Typically, a judge can hold someone in contempt in connection with a hearing or trial, or for disobeying a court order. So, had there been some kind of proceeding against the owner in court, and the result of the hearing was that a judge issued a court order against the owner to fix the violations, then the court could hold the owner in contempt if he disobeyed the court order. Here, though, there has been no court order, so there is no contempt of court.

There is a court order in place against this building owner, the City filed a nuisance suit against it in 2011 and Judge Columbo continues to preside over the repairs to the building, the owner has no money to fix but probably will not be found in contempt because his wife is a judge in the same court.

**Hypestyles** · January-09-13, 01:02 PM

if gilbert's interested, he can probably talk the price down.. what would be a realistic cost to renovate into apartments?

**Hypestyles** · January-09-13, 01:11 PM

^^^ lol...

**cman710** · January-09-13, 01:35 PM

That is funny, and bizarre. CLEARLY, when you cannot get a buyer to bite after a price reduction, the solution is to increase the price $200,000. They must not be serious about selling the building. Nevertheless, if someone came along and offered them $650K tomorrow, I bet they would take the deal.