8200 Mack Ave Detroit...

[Lowell]

It is a fabulous building. It is on the edge of a troubled neighborhood, but is also on the edge of Indian Village. Therein lies hope for its salvation, particularly with Indian Village resident John Hantz recently getting his wished-for tree farm. This should make the area more 'tended' and more attractive in the long run and odds of its survival improved. The Deutsches Haus would make an ideal community hall for Indian Village.

[Gistok]

There was a thread on here not too long ago about an Aussie who came down and bought a run down 10 unit apartment for $35K in Detroit's east side. He fixed it up. He had a tenant who wouldn't pay rent. He tried to evict her and her dad showed up at shot the Aussie and he later died in the hospital. The murderer won some money in the lottery and hired a good lawyer to defend him. It went to trial and it was thrown out as a mistrial because his lawyer argued the witness' statement was prejudicial. http://www.smh.com.au/world/mistrial...113-1pyw9.html

You still think this would be a great area for a foreigner to live in? You gonna enjoy living in a city where almost anyone can get a CCW permit except you?

Dave... ummmm you seem to have only told half the story....
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...dlords-murder/

[davewindsor]

Dave... ummmm you seem to have only told half the story....
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...dlords-murder/

Well, thank-you Mr. Attention to detail. The main point I was trying to make was that this isn't the safest city for foreigners to buy real estate in, no matter how nice and cheap a building might look.

As for Mr. Young, his lawyer Jeffrey Edison said he'll appeal the verdict, so who knows how his sentence will ultimately turn out. $1.6m in lottery money can still buy a good legal defense and it'll probably be all spent on legal fees before that ex-landlord's wife sees a dime for her wrongful death lawsuit.

[EastsideAl]

Good area to live/work/play, or you want out?

It is one of the stranger areas in any city in the world I know of, and I say that having grown up just 2 blocks away from this building [[and my parents still live in the neighborhood, about 8 blocks to the south).

The 3 streets directly to the east and south of this building [[Seminole, Iroquois, and Burns from Mack to Jefferson) are Indian Village, which is one of the better neighborhoods in the city and a national historic district. It is full of beautiful large homes, many with stunning details, and although it has suffered along with the rest of the city and the Detroit area through the recession, housing slump, and overall urban decay, most of the houses are well kept and the population is generally upper middle class.

The rest of the area around there is one of the poorest places in the U.S. Many of the houses are dilapidated or vacant, and a large percentage have been torn down, meaning that there is a lot of vacant land nearby. The population in these areas has been declining for decades, and that decline has accelerated greatly in the last few years. Despite what some here would have you think, there are a lot of good, decent people who still live around there [[many of them elderly). But there's also a very significant amount of crime, violence, gunplay, scavenging, drug use, teen parenthood, lack of education, joblessness, and poverty. The area just to the north of Indian Village has fared better than some other nearby areas, but the overall trend is towards deeper poverty, population loss, and abandonment.

You should really take a Google Streetview tour of the surrounding streets. And keep in mind that things have gotten worse since the onset of the recession in 2008.

[Richard]

Well, thank-you Mr. Attention to detail. The main point I was trying to make was that this isn't the safest city for foreigners to buy real estate in, no matter how nice and cheap a building might look.

It is different when the shoe is on the other foot. eh

[p69rrh51]

It is one of the stranger areas in any city in the world I know of, and I say that having grown up just 2 blocks away from this building [[and my parents still live in the neighborhood, about 8 blocks to the south).

The 3 streets directly to the east and south of this building [[Seminole, Iroquois, and Burns from Mack to Jefferson) are Indian Village, which is one of the better neighborhoods in the city and a national historic district. It is full of beautiful large homes, many with stunning details, and although it has suffered along with the rest of the city and the Detroit area through the recession, housing slump, and overall urban decay, most of the houses are well kept and the population is generally upper middle class.


4744 Burns built in 1919 Pingree Park Detroit, MI.

The rest of the area around there is one of the poorest places in the U.S. Many of the houses are dilapidated or vacant, and a large percentage have been torn down, meaning that there is a lot of vacant land nearby. The population in these areas has been declining for decades, and that decline has accelerated greatly in the last few years. Despite what some here would have you think, there are a lot of good, decent people who still live around there [[many of them elderly). But there's also a very significant amount of crime, violence, gunplay, scavenging, drug use, teen parenthood, lack of education, joblessness, and poverty. The area just to the north of Indian Village has fared better than some other nearby areas, but the overall trend is towards deeper poverty, population loss, and abandonment.

You should really take a Google Streetview tour of the surrounding streets. And keep in mind that things have gotten worse since the onset of the recession in 2008.

One area north of Indian Village I have kept an eye on, are the homes around Pingree Park. They are built as well as their IV cousins but a more moderate size. They seem to be holding on fairly well but again the area around them is quite sketchy. Here is an example of a home in the area and surprisingly designed by one of Detroit's best architectural firms in the 1910's MacFarlane, Maul & Lentz.

[AUSSIE]

It is one of the stranger areas in any city in the world I know of, and I say that having grown up just 2 blocks away from this building [[and my parents still live in the neighborhood, about 8 blocks to the south).

The 3 streets directly to the east and south of this building [[Seminole, Iroquois, and Burns from Mack to Jefferson) are Indian Village, which is one of the better neighborhoods in the city and a national historic district. It is full of beautiful large homes, many with stunning details, and although it has suffered along with the rest of the city and the Detroit area through the recession, housing slump, and overall urban decay, most of the houses are well kept and the population is generally upper middle class.

The rest of the area around there is one of the poorest places in the U.S. Many of the houses are dilapidated or vacant, and a large percentage have been torn down, meaning that there is a lot of vacant land nearby. The population in these areas has been declining for decades, and that decline has accelerated greatly in the last few years. Despite what some here would have you think, there are a lot of good, decent people who still live around there [[many of them elderly). But there's also a very significant amount of crime, violence, gunplay, scavenging, drug use, teen parenthood, lack of education, joblessness, and poverty. The area just to the north of Indian Village has fared better than some other nearby areas, but the overall trend is towards deeper poverty, population loss, and abandonment.

You should really take a Google Streetview tour of the surrounding streets. And keep in mind that things have gotten worse since the onset of the recession in 2008.

Yeah, i noted that Google Earth Maps looks years old

Thanks for the information, appreciated!

Cheers

PS/ Feel free to take photos of here if your in the area

[neavling]

+11111111!

Thanks, appreciate it!

So near, yet so far

Good area to live/work/play, or you want out?

Many thanks

Cheers

I just got the pictures and will upload them. When I was there, five fire hydrants on the same street were flooding the road. The building looks secure, thankfully.

I do like the area. I actually just moved there from Midtown and really appreciate the people I've met. I'll be curious to see what Hantz Farms does to the area just north of there.

[AUSSIE]

I just got the pictures and will upload them. When I was there, five fire hydrants on the same street were flooding the road. The building looks secure, thankfully.

I do like the area. I actually just moved there from Midtown and really appreciate the people I've met. I'll be curious to see what Hantz Farms does to the area just north of there.

Looking forward to them! [MANY many thanks for that too!]

Five fire hydrants cannot be faulty all at once, leads me to believe that its bored people at work?Have they nothing better to do?

Thanks for looking out for *my* building...lol

Cheers

[detroiturbex]

March of 2012.



The building we have today is very different from what was planned in the 1910's. It was originally envisioned as a large, German Renaissance-style building or complex of buildings holding up to 5,000...



Similar in design to the one above.





From a fundraising brochure:

“What is a Deutsches Haus? It is a community house which affords to Germanic Societies and in fact to all German Americans of the City primarily, but secondarily also to other citizens, an ideal place for meetings, recreation, amusement, entertainment and mutual co-operation. It is a center which draws all forces to it, a home which harbors all, a common ground upon which men and women meet and learn to gather strength for nobler effort and achievement.”

“The building about to be erected, beautiful in its classic outlines, will have a width of 101 feet and a length of 141 feet. It will not only be strictly modern but all the resources of architectural art will be exhausted to make it in every feature and detail conform to the high ideals of those who designed it. The basement besides the space devoted to heating apparatus and other necessities of a modern building will contain bowling alleys, billiard room, three elegant meeting halls and a kitchen. The first floor will be mostly taken up by a bank, five shops, a large dining room, a meeting room, and a kitchen, besides rest rooms, etc. The entire upper part of the building will consist of the great and beautiful auditorium capable of seating 1600 or more persons with a modern stage and a large and splendid balcony. The auditorium can also be turned into a ball-room, the most elegant and convenient in Detroit. The waste space is utilized for smaller meeting rooms and rooms for employees [[United Arbeiter Temple Association, 1925).”





Plans were put on hold during the First World War, but began again in 1923. By 1926 the corner stone was laid, with several thousand people in attendance, and a performace of Beethoven’s “Ehre Gottes” was sung by the mass chorus of the United German Singing Societies under direction of Hans Hagen. It opened in April of 1927.

Greater Macedonia Baptist Church moved into the building in 1963, and left sometime around or after 2008. When we talked to a real estate agent who had tried to sell the building, and he told us that the congregation was down to maybe 40 people meeting in the basement because they couldn't afford to use the sanctuary. They waited too long to move out, then had a high asking price [[around $1M) that they've only recently started to back down on. There is some pretty bad water damage in the basement because the utilities were turned off, but it isn't fatal. The neighbors watch the building pretty closely, and secure it if it gets broken into.

It's an amazing building. Hopefully someone with some deep pockets and vision brings it back.

[AUSSIE]

It's an amazing building. Hopefully someone with some deep pockets and vision brings it back.

This is GREAT work and history of 8200 Mack, VERY much appreciated!

Re above comment, really depends on what use is to be done with it, *maybe* keep the externals and gut the inside?

All depends how bad this basement flooding business is?

Anyway waiting for some *partners* here on DD to come up with plans and partnership, snap to it guys!!

Cheers

[stasu1213]

I believe that Barbour Junior High School once held graduation ceremonies there for the 9th graders

[AUSSIE]

I just got the pictures and will upload them. .

*BUMP*

VERY keen as u can see!

Thanks

Cheers

[Omaha]

Grew up close to there in the 50s. I remembered it as the CYO building. Walked by it as my family shopped at a Tom's food store in the block west of it on Mack. Used to play a lot of pick up baseball in the vacant lot just on the other side of Seminole. Good memories.

[AUSSIE]

WTF?

This is NOT a fallout shelter

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/W...troit_Michigan

On the other hand all girls are welcome!

Cheers

[EastsideAl]

It was a fallout shelter. Most large public buildings of solid construction in big cities in the U.S. were designated as Civil Defense fallout shelters during the Cold War years. They were supplied with non-perishable food and water supplies that were stored onsite.

My elementary school 3 blocks away, Nichols Elementary, was also designated as a fallout shelter and I remember seeing the big green Civil Defense barrels of food and water rations down in the janitor's room in the basement. You will still sometimes see the tell-tale fading yellow signs [[as shown below from the photos on the page you linked) on older buildings throughout Detroit and around the country.

[AUSSIE]

Must be another church, and another Mack Ave?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YyAoRSsZrI

Video of 8200 Mack ex-church would have been nice......

Cheers

[Kathleen]

Must be another church, and another Mack Ave?

Looks like Mack Avenue Community Church is a congregation without a church!
Same Mack Avenue though!! According to their website, they hold their services at the Waldorf School in Indian Village. This is only a few blocks from Deutsches Haus at 8200 Mack.

[neavling]

I didn't post the pictures because Detroiturbex did. His are very recent.

[AUSSIE]

I didn't post the pictures because Detroiturbex did. His are very recent.

Thanks for that!

"Your mission Jim, should you decide to accept it, is get inside photos of 8200 Mack Ave., good luck Jim"

This tape will self destruct in 10 seconds

Cheers

[neavling]

If I ever hear of interior photos, I'll let you know. I am quite curious too. Somehow it has managed to stay secured in an area where all abandonment is wide open to the elements.

[AUSSIE]

Errrrrrrrr ok, see what i have done!?

*MY* property has risen in price by just a smallish amount of $100k, yeap they have jacked the price up to $249k!!

http://www.trulia.com/property/30546...troit-MI-48214

A good case of WTF?

The website must have been getting lots of hits so they believe jacking the price up will sell it.

Its a pity they are greedy [and maybe a little stupid?]and don't bother to correct the advert where it still shows 1000sq./ft.

I was waiting for the price to fall under $100k before getting really serious, now i will move on to another project/adventure

I wish them well in the future with 8200 Mack

Yours,

AUSSIE

[Richard]

awww do not give up it does receive a four star rating . Watch the exchange rates they fluctuate when this economy is down they devalue the dollar to encourage foreign investment.

1.00 AUD

=

1.05407 USD

they are only going to get what someone is willing to pay for it.

[AUSSIE]

awww do not give up it does receive a four star rating . Watch the exchange rates they fluctuate when this economy is down they devalue the dollar to encourage foreign investment.


They are only going to get what someone is willing to pay for it.

Fair enough, upping the price by $100k is bizarre, to say the least!

$100k or less, its a great building in a nowhere location, internals are stuffed too

Cheers

[villagejack]

Likely issues with this building- Regardless of the interior, it will need major new upgrades to meet current building codes and required City of Detroit inspections. Things like new sprinkler systems which the building never originally had. Also to meet current codes- enough egress doors. It likely needs more from the main level, new stairs to those. Those will not only be expensive, they’ll be challenging to incorporate with the existing architecture. They would change the exterior too. Indian Village has historic designation so it might not be allowed to change the exterior. If it was allowed it would have to match the character of the building in stone, detailing. The multiple challenges to complete a large, complex project like this form a positive feedback loop. Each challenge added together makes the whole exponentially more complicated & challenging. These, plus repair issues for a project this size make for a big commitment. After purchase, the buyer will need to invest many hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s tricky… is there a business on Mack Ave. in this location that could support that kind of investment? I say all this with experience on complex projects 1/30^th the scale. They were challenging and expensive. Maybe this thread of various comments will help someone plan a big but great project.