Rashida Tlaib: Moroun 'disregards federal processes'

[kraig]

Come on, Dexter Ferry. It's not right to accuse someone of something just because they ask questions or exercise some independent thinking.

[BShea]

Dexter would appear to be of the cadre of anti-Moroun folks that reflexively lurch into ad hominem childishness whenever anyone dares question -- or point out the hypocrisy -- of the DRIC stuff.

I ask how DRIC would not attract prostitution and have air fouled by idle diesel trucks, so that must mean I'm a DIBC hack, right?

Moroun's a slum lord, so that means DRIC is wonderful. Or that's how the logic seems to go around here. Moroun is causing prostitution, cancer and asthma, but none of that will happen when much of Delray is bulldozed.

[Detroitnerd]

Bshea would appear to be of the cadre of pro-Moroun folks that are all too willing to disregard Moroun's disingenousness while bringing all his critical thinking to bear on Moroun's perceived opponents.

[BShea]

Bshea would appear to be of the cadre of pro-Moroun folks that are all too willing to disregard Moroun's disingenousness while bringing all his critical thinking to bear on Moroun's perceived opponents.

Wrong. I've called 'em out in print, too. Had a story a few weeks ago on their proposed changes to their portion of the Gateway that could jeopardize the federal funding. Not something I think DIBC enjoyed reading.

Some of us can actually discuss the issue without the partisan blinders. Worries about illness and prostitution are no less valid in Delray, so for Tlaib to raise 'em in her Freep piece is odd. She opens herself up to the charges of hypocrisy that you can read above. And she does raise valid concerns ... but she fails to note those very same concerns have been raised about DRIC, which to me says this is a partisan political issue for her, and my "perception" of her as a Moroun opponent is a valid one, too.

There are other concerns about Moroun and DIBC that are valid, but that doesn't negate the value of the Ambassador Bridge.

[dexterferry]

bshea, your criticism of tlaib [[it's been going on for months now) is starting to seem partisan. and maybe I missed the part where it is wrong for a politician to be an opponent of a billionaire slumlord who has wreaked havoc in her district for decades. . .

you sure have great faith in a greedy monopolist, bshea. And I don't think it's an ad hominum attack to wonder where that faith came from when, as Detroitnerd pointed out, you seem so enjoy viciously employing those stellar critical thinking skills against Moroun's "opponent" FAR MORE than the man himself.

[BShea]

bshea, your criticism of tlaib [[it's been going on for months now) is starting to seem partisan. and maybe I missed the part where it is wrong for a politician to be an opponent of a billionaire slumlord who has wreaked havoc in her district for decades. . .

you sure have great faith in a greedy monopolist, bshea. And I don't think it's an ad hominum attack to wonder where that faith came from when, as Detroitnerd pointed out, you seem so enjoy viciously employing those stellar critical thinking skills against Moroun's "opponent" FAR MORE than the man himself.

Tlaib can do as she pleases, and I believe she fully believes she's serving her constituents, or at least some of them [[because more than a few support the DIBC and work for it). That's her job. But when she publishes hypocritical stuff, I'm going to call it out. And the DIBC doesn't make a habit of publishing hyperbolic letters in the big newspapers.

You have no idea where my faith lies. Whatever Moroun's alleged havoc-wreaking might be/been, there's a public value in the Ambassador Bridge. Tlaib thinks it's a "monstrosity" but she's very much in the minority in that [[although I'd guess you're in that foxhole with her). And I'm here to talk about the bridge projects.

Questioning politicians, especially when they raise the specter of cancer and prostitution in this context, is pretty normal, I'd say ... even more so when that politician conveniently leaves out facts. Sounds like playing the very game she accuses the other side of.

I'll wait here while you explain to me how concerns about dirty air and prostitutes are purely a DIBC problem and won't be a DRIC problem. Tlaib implied it, you're obviously related to her, work for her, campaigned for her, paved he driveway, or some nonsense [[because, obviously, you can question something only when you're a vested, partisan party to it, right?), so you can explain that one.

You know what this is akin to? George W. Bush. He's been highly praised in Africa and some circles for his significant committment to fighting AIDS in Africa. That's pretty much agreed upon. But the bridge discussion is like saying the funding to fight AIDS he mandated was bad because he did stuff elsewhere people didn't like. Some people are unable to seperate the issues, and that's a shame.

"Moroun is bad, so everything he does is bad." That about hit the nail on the head for this one?

[BShea]

Is that so? How do you feel about the claim, often bandied about, that the "replacement span" isn't intended to be used permanently, that it's going to be closed as soon as the work is finished on rehabilitating the first span? Do you accept that?

Who is bandying that about? I hadn't heard that, and on its face it sounds absurd. Why would they spend $1 billion on a new span to then close it?

Look at Delray for yourself. It's been utterly destroyed. It's hard to argue that there's even a viable neighborhood left there anymore.

I have. We wrote a lengthy story on it. We went in and talked to residents and business owners. Are you suggesting the best thing for the remaining residents is to remove them and close the businesses? There's going to be people living there after DRIC is built. And the worries about prostitution and bad air will be just as valid.

Now, if you were representing the district, which includes both, and you had a choice of having a new span in Mexicantown or in Delray, which do you think you would choose.

Trouble is, eventually you need both. It's not one or the other. Even the Morouns say that. Traffic will one day resume to previous levels. Moroun says his concern is having two bridges before traffic justifies it -- which is sound logic. So in the end, opposing a second span -- for either DIBC or DRIC -- is a dead-end position.

Nobody is saying that the bridge isn't important.

Except Tlaib, who told everyone the Ambassador Bridge is a monstrosity. And her Freep column goes after Moroun -- which is fine by me, she can target who she pleases -- but a main point of her arguement is the current construction there, and her criticism fails to target MDOT, as well. Gateway is a state project because 75 and 96 needed a new interchange with the bridge. That's a fact. His second span itself has almost zero impact because it's next to one already there. In any case, the second span has NO WHERE near the impact on a neighborhood as DRIC does.

The Gateway project affects a lot more people in Mexicantown than the second span itself. But not criticism from Tlaib on that, I see.

MDOT and the DRIC backers say Gateway had nothing to do with a second span, which is 100% pure bullshit because I have the MDOT documents that clearly spell out that it does.

I do agree with Tlaib and everyone else that DIBC needs to get trucks off the surface streets.

[Detroitnerd]

"Wrong."

No, I think you still have the appearance of it, at least on this forum.

"I've called 'em out in print, too."

Is that so? How do you feel about the claim, often bandied about, that the "replacement span" isn't intended to be used permanently, that it's going to be closed as soon as the work is finished on rehabilitating the first span? Do you accept that?

"Some of us can actually discuss the issue without the partisan blinders."

Does it hurt your arm to pat yourself on the back like that all the time?

"Worries about illness and prostitution are no less valid in Delray, so for Tlaib to raise 'em in her Freep piece is odd."

Is it odd? Look at Delray for yourself. It's been utterly destroyed. It's hard to argue that there's even a viable neighborhood left there anymore. For decades, it has been a polluted, increasingly vacant, toxic-smelling neighborhood, with Zug Island, the water filtration plant, the refineries and now a foul-smelling composting plant. Now look at Mexicantown. It's a vibrant neighborhood in the middle of a comeback. Now, if you were representing the district, which includes both, and you had a choice of having a new span in Mexicantown or in Delray, which do you think you would choose. In your rush to find a partisan issue so you can accuse Tlaib of hypocrisy, I think you miss a valid distinction.

"There are other concerns about Moroun and DIBC that are valid, but that doesn't negate the value of the Ambassador Bridge"

Nobody is saying that the bridge isn't important. I think there is a very real debate going on here, and I feel that Tlaib is being sincere, at least way more sincere than Stamper and Moroun. As she should be: She's representing her constituents; the Ambassador crowd are naturally only interested in their own enterprise.

[kraig]

If anyone has a chance, read the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality's reports with regards to Detroit. There is a part of the East Side [[away from the incinerator) that has air quality that is nearly identical to that of the Southwest Side and a lot of people there are suffering from asthma too. There is not a bridge, salt mine, refinery or cement company anywhere around. So maybe, we should start looking at the identical conditions in the two areas for contributing health factors.

1. Abandoned buildings with feces and bird droppings.
2. Lead and Asbestos in the homes.
3. Disproportionate number of dangerous buildings that have been torn down in those areas when compared with the rest of the city.
4. Fire damaged homes that contain and produce dangerous levels of carbon monoxide.
5. Very poor sewerage and the most outdated pipes in the City spewing toxic steam from the sewers at a higher rate than any in the City.

I don't know, just a thought.