Detroit Osborn doesn't look bad at all compared to Chicago Englewood!

[Zacha341]

My thoughts exactly! The only thing worse in a way is the 'crime is everywhere...' yah-dah you heard out of some Detroiters as we wound ourselves to this state of criminality. I LIVE in Detroit! Let's stop the crime!

What is the point in comparing how better or worse another city is compared to Detroit. No matter how bad or worse any other city in America is it's not going to make the City of Detroit any better or worse. Instead of making these endless comparisons with other cities do something to make your own neighborhood better...Happy New Year!!!

[michimoby]

I don't like to paint a broad brush when analyzing city stats. It wouldn't be fair to do the same to Detroit. We know there's great neighborhoods in the city and people are moving to those. Just because certain areas are losing people doesn't mean we should cast away the entire city as this terrible place not worth living in.

Sadly, however, it seems like those with resources, money, more resources, and an entrepreneurial drive are paying more attention to those that paint a broad brush.

I should know: approximately 150+ of my classmates from my MBA class at Michigan live in Lake View and LP, while two of us live in Corktown and Midtown combined.

[Brian1979]

So people should stop moving to Chicago just because of one neighborhood on the Southside? Everyone that lives here knows about Englewood and the crime rate in that neighborhood. I live about five minutes from Englewood and where I live isn't bad at all.

[Brian1979]

Wolverine, I have been civil to this point, but you are simply lying. Stop it already.

The Census Bureau is the offical source for populations. You have no authority in the matter, and no, I'm not going to believe in some guy on the internet instead of the official Census numbers.

Again, per the most recent Census count, Chicago has the second worst population loss in the nation, behind only Detroit.

And, again, the South and West Sides of Chicago, with very few exceptions, have massive population losses, so the idea that Englewood is on the cusp of a population turnaround is utter fantasy.

It's pretty different when a city only loses 6.9% of their population compared to 25% of their population. Chicago has two million more people in the city proper than Detroit does, it doesn't even compare.

[Brian1979]

Thats the average life expectancy everywhere in any city, Englewood is not that bad, I got fam on 63rd that's BD's & other cousins thats BPSN, Osborn area aint too bad either compared to most of the city. The houses always looked nice there but crime is getting worse at a rapid pace.

You are seriously in denial to say that Englewood is not that bad. What's not that bad about it? It's one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago and you're saying it's not that bad?

70% of the crime that happens in Chicago happens in 20 neighborhoods spread across the South and West sides. Englewood is not safe at all. Also I don't think that Detroit can say the same as far as their crime goes, Detroit is roughly 80% black, Chicago is roughly 30% black, Chicago also has many more nice neighborhoods than Detroit does. You can venture quite aways from the Loop and be in a nice area, you can't do the same in Detroit. Let's say you go up to Diversey and Clark/Broadway in Lincoln Park, well that's a nice area, how about a neighborhood that far from downtown in Detroit? It's not a nice area.

[ghettopalmetto]

Inferiority complex.

Since Detroit, as a region, failed to become what it could have been, the folks want to make themselves feel better by bringing down other successful cities, especially Chicago since its history is most similar to Detroit's.

But isntead of grasping at any type of straws in an attempt to bring down Chicago or demanding that people "Forget about Chicago", why not repair the deficiencies in Detroit that are turning off Detroiters and attracting them to a city like Chicago in the first place.

That doesn't happen because it would require looking in the mirror and perhaps admitting that one's outlook and paradigm are based on a false set of assumptions. Sometimes, folks are too stubborn to admit they're wrong. I should know.

[gazhekwe]

There is a story on NPR this morning about Englewood, talking about loss of community interaction as a root cause. Neighborhood Connections Key to Surviving a Crisis: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPl...85&m=168515230

[illwill]

Sadly, however, it seems like those with resources, money, more resources, and an entrepreneurial drive are paying more attention to those that paint a broad brush.

I should know: approximately 150+ of my classmates from my MBA class at Michigan live in Lake View and LP, while two of us live in Corktown and Midtown combined.

WOW!!

Those are startling numbers. I suppose it's hard to pass up the offerings of Chicago when you have a degree in business and endless opportunities and places to spend your money. It would also make sense that college educated people choose to live amongst other college educated people and former class mates and the likes.

Don't forget, Chicago was not always a city that attracted such large numbers of college grads that it currently does. It took decades to build the momentum.

And another thing... where does Governor Snyder get off by thinking Chicago is already made? Chicago is far from made. Chicago is a mess and still in the early stages of growth. The city admits that they wasted a decade of growth during the last years of Daley. Governor Snyder says why be a small fish in a big pond when you can be a big fish in a small pond [[Detroit)? The fact is, Chicago also has TONS of room for entrepreneurial growth. If you choose to live in "the hood", you have several neighborhoods to choose from. If you want to live in budding [[affordable) areas that are "ideal" for artist such as Logan Square, Humboldt Park, Pilsen, East Garfield Park, West Garfield Park, West Town, East Village etc... you have plenty of choices. But Chicago also offers luxury neighborhoods usually located East near the Lake such as Streeterville, Gold Coast, Old Town, Lincoln Park and East Lakeview. Then you have other comfortable neighborhoods such as Wicker Park, Buck Town, West Loop, Andersonville, Edgewater or Uptown. Plenty of Ethnic areas like Mayfair, East & West Rogers Park, Little Village, Avondale, North Park, Albany Park and Portage Park. If you're content with NON-TRENDY neighborhoods that are very affordable, VERY SAFE and conservative neighborhoods [[filled with mostly city workers, police and fire fighters), go south to Beverly, Garfield Ridge, Mount Greenwood, Oak Lawn and Clearing. Awesome quality of life!

May options to choose fromin Chicago.

[michimoby]

WOW!!

Those are startling numbers. I suppose it's hard to pass up the offerings of Chicago when you have a degree in business and endless opportunities and places to spend your money. It would also make sense that college educated people choose to live amongst other college educated people and former class mates and the likes.

Don't forget, Chicago was not always a city that attracted such large numbers of college grads that it currently does. It took decades to build the momentum.

And another thing... where does Governor Snyder get off by thinking Chicago is already made? Chicago is far from made. Chicago is a mess and still in the early stages of growth. The city admits that they wasted a decade of growth during the last years of Daley. Governor Snyder says why be a small fish in a big pond when you can be a big fish in a small pond [[Detroit)? The fact is, Chicago also has TONS of room for entrepreneurial growth. If you choose to live in "the hood", you have several neighborhoods to choose from. If you want to live in budding [[affordable) areas that are "ideal" for artist such as Logan Square, Humboldt Park, Pilsen, East Garfield Park, West Garfield Park, West Town, East Village etc... you have plenty of choices. But Chicago also offers luxury neighborhoods usually located East near the Lake such as Streeterville, Gold Coast, Old Town, Lincoln Park and East Lakeview. Then you have other comfortable neighborhoods such as Wicker Park, Buck Town, West Loop, Andersonville, Edgewater or Uptown. Plenty of Ethnic areas like Mayfair, East & West Rogers Park, Little Village, Avondale, North Park, Albany Park and Portage Park. If you're content with NON-TRENDY neighborhoods that are very affordable, VERY SAFE and conservative neighborhoods [[filled with mostly city workers, police and fire fighters), go south to Beverly, Garfield Ridge, Mount Greenwood, Oak Lawn and Clearing. Awesome quality of life!

May options to choose fromin Chicago.

Indeed, they are startling. And trust me -- the options to head there [[or SFO, or NYC, or even overseas) have been appealing and abundant, for sure.

But I think what differs between Detroit and Chicago re: opportunity is that the entrepreneurial base is far, far more dense there, as is the available capital. To start something in Detroit requires a lot more hustling and, for people like me, incredibly exciting. There's not much else to fall back on here in Detroit if your venture fails...other than to move to another city.

That, in itself, makes the need for Detroiters to band together, support those with the drive and pragmatism to succeed, and provide the resources necessary to make it happen. That's why I'm here, and we have a long long LONG way to go.

[Bham1982]

I should know: approximately 150+ of my classmates from my MBA class at Michigan live in Lake View and LP, while two of us live in Corktown and Midtown combined.

This is the kind of bullshit that I'm responding to. You're simply making up stuff.

I'm very familar with the Michigan MBA. Class sizes top out at around 500, and no more than 1/3 of grads stay in the Midwest.

So basically, you're claiming that 100% of Michigan MBA grads who stay in the Midwest live in two Chicago neighborhoods. Apparently no one lives anywhere else between NYC and California. They all live in two frat neighborhoods in Chicago.

Here's the truth: Most Michigan MBA grads don't go to Chicago, or anywhere in the Midwest. They go to the coasts, where the best jobs and prestige are.

Yes, many who stay in the Midwest go to Chicago. It's easily the largest city, so obviously draws the most. But your hyperbole is absurd.

Here's the Ross MBA employment statistics for 2012:
http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentD...phicRegion.htm

We all know that Detroit has a ridiculous amount of challenges. But I don't get this inferiority complex from Illinois, where folks get their jollies by dumping on the one major city in worse shape. Maybe they didn't get a job on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley and are mad?

[michimoby]

This is the kind of bullshit that I'm responding to. You're simply making up stuff.

I'm very familar with the Michigan MBA. Class sizes top out at around 500, and no more than 1/3 of grads stay in the Midwest.

So basically, you're claiming that 100% of Michigan MBA grads who stay in the Midwest live in two Chicago neighborhoods. Apparently no one lives anywhere else between NYC and California. They all live in two frat neighborhoods in Chicago.

Here's the truth: Most Michigan MBA grads don't go to Chicago, or anywhere in the Midwest. They go to the coasts, where the best jobs and prestige are.

Yes, many who stay in the Midwest go to Chicago. It's easily the largest city, so obviously draws the most. But your hyperbole is absurd.

Here's the Ross MBA employment statistics for 2012:
http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentD...phicRegion.htm

We all know that Detroit has a ridiculous amount of challenges. But I don't get this inferiority complex from Illinois, where folks get their jollies by dumping on the one major city in worse shape. Maybe they didn't get a job on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley and are mad?

Ok. My apologies for going 80/20 on the topic and making a pretty rough handwave at a demographic assessment. Since you're a bit ruffled, let's just extrapolate my point and include Bucktown, River North, the Loop, and Uptown in my original POV. Of the - yes - hundreds of classmates that made the trek to Chicago, I can't think of a single one that lives outside those extremely well-functioning neighborhoods.

Aside from that gross majority, others ship off to the medtech and marketing shops in Minneapolis; some of the Tauber grads end up in a few other spots...and an extremely small fraction of us ended up in Detroit. In my year, it was two. [[note: I'm taking statistics from my 2010 MBA class; there's been a slight uptick in the amount of Ross alums living in Detroit from the 2011/2012 cohorts).

I shouldn't have to reiterate this, since you claim to have a pretty astute understanding of Ross, but given that a large portion of the Chicago-based alumni from more recent classes took positions with the Bain/BCG/McKinsey Deloitte crop of consulting firms, they made the deliberate decision to go to Chicago. Each firm asks for your preferences during recruiting, and given the stable crop of alumni in Chicago, it's a fairly lucid decision. It's a poorly-kept secret that new MBA grads going to a specific consulting firm receive the exact same salary regardless of their home office; e.g., a McKinsey associate is going to see his/her salary carry a lot more spending power in Chicago than NYC -- and a better quality of life.

And I don't really get the inferiority complex thing: many of my closest friends from the program live in Chicago, and they're nothing but supportive of my decision to make a go here in Detroit. They're understandably worried about the city's future, but that's more a function of naivete rather than snobbery.

[iheartthed]

There was a good article about Chicago's segregated crime stats in the NYT yesterday:

But the overall rise in killings here blurs another truth: the homicides, most of which the authorities described as gang-against-gang shootings, have not been spread evenly across this city. Instead, they have mostly taken place in neighborhoods west and south of Chicago’s gleaming downtown towers.

Already, 2013 began with three gun homicides on New Year’s Day, two of them on the South Side. Like other cities, Chicago has long been a segregated place, richer and whiter on the North Side, and the city’s troubling increase in killings has accentuated a longstanding divide.

“It’s two different Chicagos,” said the Rev. Corey B. Brooks Sr., the pastor of New Beginnings Church on the South Side, who had led the funeral service for Mr. Holman the day shots rang out, then found himself leading Mr. Miller’s funeral service a week later. The authorities here have described both shootings as gang related. “If something like that had happened at the big cathedral in downtown Chicago or up north at a predominantly white church, it would still be on the news right now, it would be such a major thing going on.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/us...cago.html?_r=0

[Sehv313]

You are seriously in denial to say that Englewood is not that bad. What's not that bad about it? It's one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago and you're saying it's not that bad?

70% of the crime that happens in Chicago happens in 20 neighborhoods spread across the South and West sides. Englewood is not safe at all. Also I don't think that Detroit can say the same as far as their crime goes, Detroit is roughly 80% black, Chicago is roughly 30% black, Chicago also has many more nice neighborhoods than Detroit does. You can venture quite aways from the Loop and be in a nice area, you can't do the same in Detroit. Let's say you go up to Diversey and Clark/Broadway in Lincoln Park, well that's a nice area, how about a neighborhood that far from downtown in Detroit? It's not a nice area.

I've lived on 63rd & Normal street for 3 months the summer of 2008 its no different from any other hood in Detroit, I walked the same blocks you speak of no big deal fam, you're lookin from the outside in, If you never lived there you would'nt know, so chill. Of course crime is only horrible in ceartin areas of chicago because chicago is only financially lacking in ceartin areas. So stop google mapping neighbborhoods & actually spend time in them before you start bashing them.