Detroit is dead.... and will take the State with it....

**DetroitPlanner** · December-23-12, 11:24 PM

Actually WCF drives a lexus!

The City is making it easy for those with a lot of wealth NOT to live within its borders. Rich folks will not pay 2.4 % income tax on both the money they make inside the City limits and the money they make outside the City Limits. Case in point, look at the hubbabaloo over Rommney paying only 14 percent of his income in federal taxes. He was able to take advantage of all sorts of things such as the low taxes on investment income in order to save $100,000's in his federal taxes. That ain't chump change. Say Gilbert makes $10 million this year in Salary. Living in the City that would equate to $240,000 in taxes on his salary. Say he has another $20 million in investment income from outside of the City. He would pay another $520k for a total of $760k in taxes. If he lives in Redford, he pays $120k.

**canuck** · December-23-12, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Actually WCF drives a lexus!

The City is making it easy for those with a lot of wealth NOT to live within its borders. Rich folks will not pay 2.4 % income tax on both the money they make inside the City limits and the money they make outside the City Limits. Case in point, look at the hubbabaloo over Rommney paying only 14 percent of his income in federal taxes. He was able to take advantage of all sorts of things such as the low taxes on investment income in order to save $100,000's in his federal taxes. That ain't chump change. Say Gilbert makes $10 million this year in Salary. Living in the City that would equate to $240,000 in taxes on his salary. Say he has another $20 million in investment income from outside of the City. He would pay another $520k for a total of $760k in taxes. If he lives in Redford, he pays $120k.

You've got a major point there. The Taxman song as a ringtone. This reminds me of the controversy in France about the new tax hike on the rich. Gérard Depardieu just gave back his passport to French authorities after being bawled out for moving to a small belgian town like a bunch of other rich french nationals that escaped a 70 or 80% taxation on income. The socialist agenda is just as fucked as the neo-con one.

serpico · December-24-12, 12:42 AM

Another family that left was the Josaitis family. Once Eleanor died in 2011, her husband Don put the house up for sale immediately and headed to the thumb. Their children long left the city before Eleanor's passing. It seems even the most passionate supporters of Detroit have no effect on ending this decay.

**Gistok** · December-24-12, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

Another family that left was the Josaitis family. Once Eleanor died in 2011, her husband Don put the house up for sale immediately and headed to the thumb. Their children long left the city before Eleanor's passing. It seems even the most passionate supporters of Detroit have no effect on ending this decay.

Maybe they took the millions they made off of helping Detroit's poor and had enough... and left....

[[Sarcasm Alert Off)

You sure do have some strange reasoning....

**Gistok** · December-24-12, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

You've got a major point there. The Taxman song as a ringtone. This reminds me of the controversy in France about the new tax hike on the rich. Gérard Depardieu just gave back his passport to French authorities after being bawled out for moving to a small belgian town like a bunch of other rich french nationals that escaped a 70 or 80% taxation on income. The socialist agenda is just as fucked as the neo-con one.

Sounds as bad as the Brits which for nearly a century have had their exorbitant Death Duties [[inheritance taxes) on the nobility... now the British government's National Trust [[the public) is saddled with huge outlays in taking care of all the Stately Homes [[they got in lieu of Death Duties) throughout England... and the titled nobility still get to stay there...

**canuck** · December-24-12, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by serpico

Another family that left was the Josaitis family. Once Eleanor died in 2011, her husband Don put the house up for sale immediately and headed to the thumb. Their children long left the city before Eleanor's passing. It seems even the most passionate supporters of Detroit have no effect on ending this decay.

And yet the decay has to stop. You have to remind yourself everytime someone says "Where will the money come from?" that Detroit's metro has a higher GDP than a lot of shiny cities around the globe. There is no real lack of money, and at one point if the powers that be in the corporate or political circles dont effect a change for the betterment of Detroit, the donut will become pretty stale and less attractive to potential newcomers.

If there is enough money to build and man a whole bunch of nuclear submarines that are on a constant state of alert, F-35's and all the space junk you can imagine, there is enough to rebuild a city.

serpico · December-24-12, 01:30 AM

Of course there is plenty of money in the Detroit area. Poverty=big business for Detroit. The "non profits" love "helping" people especially when grant money is involved. It seems that poverty in Detroit is intentially perpetuated to feed certain interest groups.

**Hermod** · December-24-12, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

If there is enough money to build and man a whole bunch of nuclear submarines that are on a constant state of alert, F-35's and all the space junk you can imagine, there is enough to rebuild a city.

If Detroit would just sell off all of the nuclear submarines they have floating around in the Detroit River, they would have plenty of money. They could sell all of those F-35 they have out there at Coleman Young "International" Airport as well. Did Coleman Young blow all of the city money on that military hardware? I don't think Lapeer will attack the city any time soon.

**coracle** · December-24-12, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

And there it is. I got mines. F all the resta' y'all.

You're right. I have got mines. I contracted it while working but it's not lethal unless it develops into yours.

**Dexlin** · December-24-12, 06:49 AM

Where is moderation? Honestly, how does this trash keep slipping through? Whatever the subject matter, the subject - if you can even call it a subject - is so broad and general that this needs to be trashed. If you've got a specific issue, that's one thing, and even those silly threads are overprolific, here. But this? This trash? And 58 f$ckin' replies? Really?

**Sehv313** · December-24-12, 06:58 AM

Many believe that the way to bringing the city back is to have a powerful downtown thats a typical thought in revenue for the city but that wont help the inner-city much at all. in order to build a strong city

We must have business in our particular areas. [[creating jobs & revenue for the city.) [[there are no resturants in my neighborhood that stays open past 6pm 'except 2 coney islands'. I have to go all the way to 8 mile or hamtramck just to go shopping or get fast food other than coney.
We must take pride in our community [[we as citizens should take pride in our properties, if there are abandoned homes nearby board them up to prevent squatters & cut the grass. I see people doing this already.)

So you may think Illitch moving to Midtown is progress but I live in the hood where its blocks full of decay, so until I see Mike Illitch moving on E Davison & Buffalo or on 28th & Buchanan then I'll know Detroit is coming back.

**canuck** · December-24-12, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Where is moderation? Honestly, how does this trash keep slipping through? Whatever the subject matter, the subject - if you can even call it a subject - is so broad and general that this needs to be trashed. If you've got a specific issue, that's one thing, and even those silly threads are overprolific, here. But this? This trash? And 58 f$ckin' replies? Really?

Your post was the most honest and frankly adds a sparkle to the discussion. Care to reply?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-24-12, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by erikd

If you think that Detroit looks hopeless now, then you have no idea of how bad the city looked in the mid-late 90s. Downtown, Midtown, Woodbridge, and Corktown are all ten times nicer than they were 15 years ago. If you could see how depressed all these areas were 15 years ago, it would blow your mind.

Can't really see how it was better 15 yrs ago, than it is now. Looks like there's more abandonment presently than back then. I've driven down block after block with one or two occupied houses and sometimes 5 or 6 houses in a row that are either empty or burned out. It's crazy.

**313WX** · December-24-12, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Can't really see how it was better 15 yrs ago, than it is now. Looks like there's more abandonment presently than back then. I've driven down block after block with one or two occupied houses and sometimes 5 or 6 houses in a row that are either empty of burned out. It's crazy.

I guess it depends on what part of Detroit you're talking about.

NE and NW Detroit couldn't be any worse.

The few people that still did populate the SW Detroit neighborhood west of Tiger Stadium and the lower east side have all but left.

The Cass Corridor and Downtown have improved somewhat, granted they still has a very long way to go considering how much was lost.

serpico · December-24-12, 09:26 PM

Bing, Snyder and Obama allow this crap in America today.... there is no pride in Detroit. Name: det16.jpg
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**Lowell** · December-24-12, 11:36 PM

Sheesh break out the cheap vodka and the Russian roulette pistol already. Such wailing and gnashing of teeth! It must be the long dark days.

Once one lumps Detroit to mean all of Detroit short-sightedness arrives. If you can't understand that parts of Detroit are booming, even if others are collapsing, you simply don't get it, or deliberately refuse to.

serpico · December-24-12, 11:42 PM

It feels like it Lowell.....

**DetroitPlanner** · December-24-12, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Can't really see how it was better 15 yrs ago, than it is now. Looks like there's more abandonment presently than back then. I've driven down block after block with one or two occupied houses and sometimes 5 or 6 houses in a row that are either empty of burned out. It's crazy.

I agree. Midtown, Woodbridge and Corktown are not signifigantly 'better' now than they were in the 1990's. Yes some of the names have changed and the there are definitely more trendy hipster types there, but there has been a lot of change that has kept them comparable. Now lets look at that against places like Warrendale, Grandmont, Franklin Park, and East English Village. All of these neighborhoods have seen significant decline in housing, population, and businesses. Compare this in square mileage and population to Corktown, Midtown and Woodbridge and you see that more of the City is worse off.

Lowell, many of us have different views based upon the Detroit we grew up in. We are not from areas that are seeing any of this better Detroit. I suspect that you growing up in Highland Park can at least understand that we are not all wearing the same pair or hue of rose color glasses.

P.S. The Jositis family is hardly the mega rich.

**SWMAP** · December-24-12, 11:54 PM

Lowell, I have lived in SW Detroit for 30 years. It is not exactly booming now in comparison to three decades ago. What is different is that there are more sophisticated community organizers and business development organizations keeping things together over here and bringing in grants and sponsorships. There's also the scale of comparison: in relation to what is SW Detroit "booming?" I guess it is if the comparison is with Gratiot or Grand River.
What is also happening over here is that the INS is emptying the neighborhood through fear and deportations. Fine old buildings on eitherer side of Vernor are abandoned and burnt. Dozens of them as far as I can see. Get off Vernor and see immense frightening devastation in the last five years.
If this is a boomtown it is a pitifully small boom.

**Lowell** · December-24-12, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Where is moderation? Honestly, how does this trash keep slipping through? Whatever the subject matter, the subject - if you can even call it a subject - is so broad and general that this needs to be trashed. If you've got a specific issue, that's one thing, and even those silly threads are overprolific, here. But this? This trash? And 58 f$ckin' replies? Really?

Actually it was 60 with YOUR post. Threads like this are part of the dialogue of Detroit. They add little new to the discussions and periodically reappear over the years, repeat the same gloomy stories and fade away. I don't get the point of them, whether they are about resentment or glee. What they uniformly lack are answers.

All I know is that Detroit just keeps rolling along like old man river. It isn't going anywhere and its future is open. If the City were broken up into smaller communities, like the suburbs, a different picture emerges. Downtown, Midtown, and Cultural Center are rising. Palmer Woods, University, Green Acres, Southwest, Corktown, Indian Village and Lafayette Park are doing fine. So what?

**RaumVogel** · December-25-12, 02:43 AM

[[Sarcasm Alert on) What the city needs is Snake Plissken!

**p69rrh51** · December-25-12, 02:45 AM

Old Man River! I like that and quite true. I would add the Rosedale Parks and even Old Redford to the list.
Also when visiting Southwest Detroit leave Bagley and venture further west there is a real urban environment right in our backyard that did not need tax incentives, one person buying up the land, or mythical retail to get started!

**old guy** · December-25-12, 02:47 AM

Wow, no offense folks, but get a grip on reality. Get out, travel around the country and see that what's happening in Detroit isn't unique to one area. Visit rural America and the small towns. Visit other cities. I understand that Detroit has been hit hard, but so has most of the country. We're all pretty much in the same boat. The entire country is trying to piece things back together just like Detroit and it's a slow, arduous process that's going to take some time. These are tough times everywhere. Deal with it and help to make it better. It's all we can do. Best wishes to everyone.

**old guy** · December-25-12, 02:50 AM

[QUOTE=serpico;358447]Bing, Snyder and Obama allow this crap in America today.... there is no pride in Detroit.QUOTE]

What the hell does that mean?

**Honky Tonk** · December-25-12, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by old guy

Wow, no offense folks, but get a grip on reality. Get out, travel around the country and see that what's happening in Detroit isn't unique to one area. Visit rural America and the small towns. Visit other cities. I understand that Detroit has been hit hard, but so has most of the country. We're all pretty much in the same boat. The entire country is trying to piece things back together just like Detroit and it's a slow, arduous process that's going to take some time. These are tough times everywhere. Deal with it and help to make it better. It's all we can do. Best wishes to everyone.

Everyone needs to "get a grip on reality". Detroit's problems may be similar to other areas, but I don't see such mass dysfunction, disrespect for it's citizens, nor do I feel this attitude of entitlement anywhere like this City has. Unless you address and rectify Detroit's core issues, your just spinning your wheels posting "feel good" propaganda. Best fishes to everyone.