Elliott Management offers to acquire Compuware for $2.3B

[Shollin]

+1 on everything but to clarify the last part... from their website " This isn't some local interdependent mortgage broker.

I would assume their appeal to the consumer is that they do what they do better, faster and cheaper than the traditional banks.

Basically Quicken picks leads from websites like Loantree and calls the customers and badgers them till they do a mortgage. They don't even hire true mortgage professionals. As long as you sell you're hired. You never see any experienced broker working for Quicken.

[bailey]

Basically Quicken picks leads from websites like Loantree and calls the customers and badgers them till they do a mortgage. They don't even hire true mortgage professionals. As long as you sell you're hired. You never see any experienced broker working for Quicken.

I don't work for quicken, nor do I have a mortgage with them, but that summation doesn't seem like it would lead to 30,000,000,000 in funded loans. That sounds like a nickle dime boilerroom operation that would have collapsed in the recession when the leads dried up.

[Shollin]

I don't work for quicken, nor do I have a mortgage with them, but that summation doesn't seem like it would lead to 30,000,000,000 in funded loans. That sounds like a nickle dime boilerroom operation that would have collapsed in the recession when the leads dried up.

Well I worked there. They hire people with phone sale skills and train them and work them 50+ hours a week. You average $9 an hour in base pay and have to reach quotas. They also service 30 billion in loans spread out over different investors. How do you think an e-company would get business? They have pipe lines developed with other companies that generate applications for them.

[bailey]

Well I worked there. They hire people with phone sale skills and train them and work them 50+ hours a week. You average $9 an hour in base pay and have to reach quotas. They also service 30 billion in loans spread out over different investors. How do you think an e-company would get business? They have pipe lines developed with other companies that generate applications for them.

interesting. So do they buy the JD power Customer Satisfaction ratings and "best place to work" awards they are always touting?

Because the way you describe it, i would think the morale around there would be garbage and the customers would be completely dissatisfied by being harangued and hard sold into a mortgage product they didn't want.

[canuck]

Wow. Kind of disheartening this whole thread aint it? First Compuware is down the drain and soon to be taken apart, and then Quicken coming out as an
e-junkie. Which way Detroit? Really pisses me off.

[Shollin]

interesting. So do they buy the JD power Customer Satisfaction ratings and "best place to work" awards they are always touting?

Because the way you describe it, i would think the morale around there would be garbage and the customers would be completely dissatisfied by being harangued and hard sold into a mortgage product they didn't want.

The morale is pretty low. Since they have bright colors and offer unlimited slushies, it's a great place to work. The turnover is high. They hire people with only high school diplomas and no mortgage experience. People are on the phones selling all day. It's like a used car lot for mortgages.

[bailey]

The morale is pretty low. Since they have bright colors and offer unlimited slushies, it's a great place to work. The turnover is high. They hire people with only high school diplomas and no mortgage experience. People are on the phones selling all day. It's like a used car lot for mortgages.

lol. what? no foosball?

[corktownyuppie]

Shollin is mostly right -- when talking about the entry level, that is. But let's not kid ourselves, whether in the mortgage business, commercial real estate development, banking services...this is what the business looks like at the entry level. Hell, this is what it looks like in Google's advertising sales location out of the Ann Arbor branch.

Shake the bushes, smile and dial, like a squirrel trying to find a nut or a beaver building a dam stick by stick.

Once you get above entry level at Quicken, I hear it's not so bad.

[Hypestyles]

back to the OT-- um... if "the worst" happens to compuware via the hedge funders, could Gilbert/Quicken step in and buy the whole building?

[gameguy56]

back to the OT-- um... if "the worst" happens to compuware via the hedge funders, could Gilbert/Quicken step in and buy the whole building?

I don't see why not? Don't they already occupy a few floors? Gilbert's running a tech incubator, and people who work in those kinds of things prefer to live downtown.

I *THINK* what he's trying to do is basically re-create some sort of little-sillicon valley, funded with his QL business.

[Bham1982]

I don't see why not? Don't they already occupy a few floors? Gilbert's running a tech incubator, and people who work in those kinds of things prefer to live downtown.

Silicon Valley, the globe's leading tech incubator, couldn't be more suburban or sterile, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them. Since when do tech geeks prefer rust belt cores?

And Quicken Loans is a mortgage lender. They don't really have anything to do with creating tech or digital clusters.

Compuware is a tech company, yet their employees didn't flock downtown when they built their new building.

But I do agree that Quicken would buy the Compuware HQ if they ever vacated. It's a beautiful, relatively new building, and I know they already have a big presence in the building.

[gameguy56]

Silicon Valley, the globe's leading tech incubator, couldn't be more suburban or sterile, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them. Since when do tech geeks prefer rust belt cores?

Reddit, Twitter, Yelp, salesforce, instagram, and zynga are all based in San Francisco, not the valley. I should have been clear about meaning SF specifically when I said sv. Additionally you wouldn't see google, facebook and other tech companies running their own private shuttles for employees to San Francisco if that wasn't a selling point for employees. Get with the times, bham!

[Gistok]

Compuware is a tech company, yet their employees didn't flock downtown when they built their new building.

You must not know a lot of of Compuware employees... #1) they tend to be more middle age.... #2) have kids... and tend NOT move downtown due to #2.

[leapfrog]

Well I worked there. They hire people with phone sale skills and train them and work them 50+ hours a week. You average $9 an hour in base pay and have to reach quotas. They also service 30 billion in loans spread out over different investors. How do you think an e-company would get business? They have pipe lines developed with other companies that generate applications for them.

I have several friends who have worked there, and all of them told the same tale as above. It's not the panacea that some would beleive it to be.

[Armin]

I'm not new to this forum..I used to post here a lot several years ago under a different username. I felt like registering again after reading Shollin's comments. I've worked for QL for 10 years. I love this job, and I love the company.

Shollin..you really dont know what the hell you're talking about. Most of the leads do not come from other websites. The VAST majority come straight from people inquiring directly with QL. I don't know how long it's been since you worked here, but QL generates most of it business by itself and services most of the loans it funds now.

You think the morale is low here? You're crazy. That couldn't be further from the truth. Do you think we are all just lying through our teeth when we fill out those surveys that lead us to winning the "best place to work" awards? Come on, now.

You say that we "call the customers and badger them till they do a mortgage?" How in the world would QL win 3 consecutive JD Power awards for "highest in customer satisfaction" if our procedures made people feel uncomfortable with the process? We really do things better then every other player in the industry. We're proud of what we've perfected.

You say they hire people with high school diplomas? Well, I can tell you that on my sales team of 19 bankers, every single one of us, except one person, has a bachelor's degree.

You say turnover is high?...well yeah, that's pretty much the case in almost every sales job. Sales is always going to have people coming and going that can't cut it. It's the nature of the business.

You say "as long as you can sell you're hired"..Again, it's a sales job..that's what you are hired to do..SELL. You say QL "doesn't hire true mortgage professionals". Guess what? Wells fargo, Chase, BofA and every other major bank/lender does the exact same thing..they interview people, hire them, train then to learn the business, and then put them to work. Most people in any given sales position aren't experts in that field until they are properly trained and then build experience.

You said "You never see any experienced broker working for Quicken." Wrong again. The gentleman that sits next to me used to own a brokerage for 12 years. That's just one example. I know for a fact there are many, many more.

I am not sure where all this negativity stems from on your part towards QL, but I'm guessing that you weren't very good at the job when you were here. In my experience, most former employess of QL who have disparaging remarks about the company just plain and simply were not cut out for sales to begin with. I would not have worked here for 10 years nor would I work the amount of hours that I do if I was not well compensated for my efforts. They take good care of us, and it's gratifying to see all of things this company does for the community and for so many charitible causes [[it's A LOT more than most companies do).

I just couldn't sit back and read your opinions without responding. I can't tell you how strongly I feel that you are way off base with your statements.

[corktownyuppie]

You say turnover is high?...well yeah, that's pretty much the case in almost every sales job. Sales is always going to have people coming and going that can't cut it. It's the nature of the business.

You say "as long as you can sell you're hired"..Again, it's a sales job..that's what you are hired to do..SELL. You say QL "doesn't hire true mortgage professionals". Guess what? Wells fargo, Chase, BofA and every other major bank/lender does the exact same thing..they interview people, hire them, train then to learn the business, and then put them to work. Most people in any given sales position aren't experts in that field until they are properly trained and then build experience. you how strongly I feel that you are way off base with your statements.

I can't speak about Quicken Loans, but it's worth saying [[again) that in the financial services field, attrition is generally 50-75% for first year employees. It really is a revolving door, even at the best of the best firms.

Quicken Loans is actually one of my firm's competitors, as we have the ability to broker Wells Fargo mortgages through a joint operating agreement. And I will say that QL is a machine. The volume they do and the streamlined processing is extremely competitive.

FWIW.

[rondinjp]

I'm not new to this forum..I used to post here a lot several years ago under a different username. I felt like registering again after reading Shollin's comments. I've worked for QL for 10 years. I love this job, and I love the company.

Shollin..you really dont know what the hell you're talking about. Most of the leads do not come from other websites. The VAST majority come straight from people inquiring directly with QL. I don't know how long it's been since you worked here, but QL generates most of it business by itself and services most of the loans it funds now.

You think the morale is low here? You're crazy. That couldn't be further from the truth. Do you think we are all just lying through our teeth when we fill out those surveys that lead us to winning the "best place to work" awards? Come on, now.

You say that we "call the customers and badger them till they do a mortgage?" How in the world would QL win 3 consecutive JD Power awards for "highest in customer satisfaction" if our procedures made people feel uncomfortable with the process? We really do things better then every other player in the industry. We're proud of what we've perfected.

You say they hire people with high school diplomas? Well, I can tell you that on my sales team of 19 bankers, every single one of us, except one person, has a bachelor's degree.

You say turnover is high?...well yeah, that's pretty much the case in almost every sales job. Sales is always going to have people coming and going that can't cut it. It's the nature of the business.

You say "as long as you can sell you're hired"..Again, it's a sales job..that's what you are hired to do..SELL. You say QL "doesn't hire true mortgage professionals". Guess what? Wells fargo, Chase, BofA and every other major bank/lender does the exact same thing..they interview people, hire them, train then to learn the business, and then put them to work. Most people in any given sales position aren't experts in that field until they are properly trained and then build experience.

You said "You never see any experienced broker working for Quicken." Wrong again. The gentleman that sits next to me used to own a brokerage for 12 years. That's just one example. I know for a fact there are many, many more.

I am not sure where all this negativity stems from on your part towards QL, but I'm guessing that you weren't very good at the job when you were here. In my experience, most former employess of QL who have disparaging remarks about the company just plain and simply were not cut out for sales to begin with. I would not have worked here for 10 years nor would I work the amount of hours that I do if I was not well compensated for my efforts. They take good care of us, and it's gratifying to see all of things this company does for the community and for so many charitible causes [[it's A LOT more than most companies do).

I just couldn't sit back and read your opinions without responding. I can't tell you how strongly I feel that you are way off base with your statements.

I don't know anyone that works at Quicken, but my sister has worked at CitiMortgage and Wells Fargo doing mortgages and she has the farthest thing from a business or finance degree. Instead, she has a communication degree and i know for a fact that most of her associates at both firms had similar non-finance degrees.

I also have to agree with above comments, she told me turnover rates at both companies she worked at was extremely high for those that couldn't cut it in sales. she on the other hand has been doing it for almost 10 years and is very good at it and gets paid very well.

So I'm not sure if the comments about quicken are accurate or true, but it seems that it is more of the mortgage industry that has a high turnover right.

[Hermod]

My question would be "Why do mortgages have to be sold?" I am conjuring up thoughts of a boiler room atmosphere soliciting people for mortgages. If you buy a house, you need a mortgage.

[beachboy]

Bham1982:

Silicon Valley, the globe's leading tech incubator, couldn't be more suburban or sterile, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them. Since when do tech geeks prefer rust belt cores?

SV is a bit different from "the D". A few startups in the 1950s and early 1960s, increasing with development of the semiconductor and mini/micro-computer industries ... hundreds of firms today ... world-class university [[Stanford, $17B endowment) in Palo Alto ... beautiful, vibrant city [[SF) to the north ... pleasant, safe cities and towns in the vicinity ... national parks, mountains & seashore nearby ... international airports in SF & San Jose ... gateway to Asia, cosmopolitan culture ... stable or increasing land and home values ... solid support from CA legislature ... excellent schools ... pleasant climate most of the year, etc.

How does Detroit compare?

[corktownyuppie]

My question would be "Why do mortgages have to be sold?" I am conjuring up thoughts of a boiler room atmosphere soliciting people for mortgages. If you buy a house, you need a mortgage.

Everything needs to be sold.

It's not so much a boiler room trying to sell mortgages to people who don't need them. It's making sure that when someone needs a mortgage, they're coming to you and not to somewhere else.

There was a point about 8 weeks ago where a 7-year ARM had a 2.4% interest rate. Now getting that word out effectively and then keeping the process moving is all about salesmanship. I probably talked to 10-20 clients that day. Quicken Loans probably talked to 5,000 people that day.

I mean, everyone needs a home, so why do we need real estate agents? Same thing.

[Packman41]

My question would be "Why do mortgages have to be sold?" I am conjuring up thoughts of a boiler room atmosphere soliciting people for mortgages. If you buy a house, you need a mortgage.

The reason mortgages need to be sold is because of Asset Liability Matching or ALM. All financial institutions need the duration of their assets [[deposits) to match the duration of their liabilities [[promise to pay).

Banks and brokerage houses get their funds from short term sources. Banks get their funds from checking and savings deposits – these deposits can leave the bank at a moments notice if the depositor wants their money back. In other words the money is “hot,” it can come and go quickly.

It is VERY risky to borrow from depositors short-term and lend on long-term mortgages. Should the depositors make a run on deposits they cannot pay it all back because the money was invested long-term. This is called “disintermediation.” Think of George Bailey’s Building Assoc. in “It’s a Wonderful Life.” Think of the S&L Crisis around 1990.

So the banks and brokerage houses need to find a buyer that has long-term liabilities, such as life insurance companies, pension funds and the U.S. Government.

These three entities need to lend long-term. For either a LIC or PF they do not have to pay back the depositor for a long time. People make life policy payments or contributions to their pension plan now, but will not collect on them for 30 to 50 years. So they are in the market for long-term assets in order to match the duration of their long-term. As recently as 2008, Fannie Mae and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation [[Freddie Mac) had owned or guaranteed about half of the U.S.'s $12 trillion mortgage market.

By purchasing mortgages, LICs, PFs, FNMA and FHLMC provide banks and other financial institutions with fresh money to make new loans.

[DetroitPlanner]

Really??? People out there are buying ARMS when they can get lock a 15 year for not a whole lot more?? I would have assumed people would be avoiding adjustables like the plague when the rates are so low.

[Bham1982]

Reddit, Twitter, Yelp, salesforce, instagram, and zynga are all based in San Francisco, not the valley. I should have been clear about meaning SF specifically when I said sv. Additionally you wouldn't see google, facebook and other tech companies running their own private shuttles for employees to San Francisco if that wasn't a selling point for employees. Get with the times, bham!

There are 20 times as many tech companies in Silicon Valley as in SF. Twitter is the only really big-time SF tech firm.

And we're not talking SF here, we're talking Detroit. Huge difference.

Again, if tech companies and their workers prefer urban areas [[and specifically Rust Belt urban areas) then why are all the nation's tech centers in suburban wastelands [[excepting Manhattan and SF, which are urban outliers anyways)?

[Gistok]

Bham1982:

SV is a bit different from "the D". A few startups in the 1950s and early 1960s, increasing with development of the semiconductor and mini/micro-computer industries ... hundreds of firms today ... world-class university [[Stanford, $17B endowment) in Palo Alto ... beautiful, vibrant city [[SF) to the north ... pleasant, safe cities and towns in the vicinity ... national parks, mountains & seashore nearby ... international airports in SF & San Jose ... gateway to Asia, cosmopolitan culture ... stable or increasing land and home values ... solid support from CA legislature ... excellent schools ... pleasant climate most of the year, etc.

How does Detroit compare?

Well there is a downside beachboy.... home prices...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-mill...152126460.html

You get almost 8 times the house for the dollar in Michigan....

[corktownyuppie]

Really??? People out there are buying ARMS when they can get lock a 15 year for not a whole lot more?? I would have assumed people would be avoiding adjustables like the plague when the rates are so low.

The people strongly considering a 7-yr ARM [[that I'm talking to, anyway) are people who will probably be paying off their loan in 10-12 years anyway and just need some monthly flexibility because income doesn't come in steadily [[self-employed, or commission, etc).

You're right...the 15-yr looks pretty amazing too.