Only the little people must pay property taxes.

[Richard]

The narrow 58-49 vote came on a day when city records revealed the Ilitch companies owe more than $1.5 million in Detroit taxes on two parcels that make up Joe Louis Arena.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EyuBGmNq


I like this part

"There is a dispute at hand here, but not a failure on anyone's part to pay or collect taxes. It is a business issue being worked out."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EyuLN3n5

and also this one

The legislation, which Gov. Rick Snyder is expected to sign into law, lets the Ilitches apply for Detroit's Downtown Development Authority school property tax money that amounts to $12.8 million a year.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EyulfpX5

Good thing the schools do not need the money.

so basically the property tax dispute comes from a new lease negotiation that has been going on for over two years but not resolved because of the uncertainty of the building the new arena ,so if they build the arena the city loses the $1.5 million in back taxes?

I had brought up the tax capture aspect in my hypothetical interurban thread and was told it would never happen because it had to get house approval and that would take years ,lol this guy did it in days.

The Red Wings have enjoyed what is considered the best lease arrangement of any National Hockey League team at Joe Louis. Olympia Entertainment has leased the hockey arena, Cobo Arena and an adjacent parking structure for $475,000 a year, while the city tossed in free police protection, landscaping and snow removal.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2EywK98oS

I find it interesting how some are placed high on pedestal within the city and how they profess their love for the city and why they stick with it,but it always seems to boil down to its because of hundreds of millions in incentives or because its a free for all of doing business while the rest of the city suffers ,not to much to take pride in there.

Of course it gets even better when an attorney at Miller Canfield representing Ilitch Holdings.

[Gistok]

I think that Ilitch should pay off the tax bill for JLA and Cobo Arena... and continue to use them.... oh wait... Cobo Arena is being remodeled for convention use and has been unavailable for Ilitch to use for almost 2 years...

Is all of this not making sense to anyone else???

[detmsp]

I think that Ilitch should pay off the tax bill for JLA and Cobo Arena... and continue to use them.... oh wait... Cobo Arena is being remodeled for convention use and has been unavailable for Ilitch to use for almost 2 years...

Is all of this not making sense to anyone else???

The first thing I thought when I read about this is that Ilitch doesn't actually own JLA or Cobo, so why is he paying property taxes? Apparently that is exactly what Ilitch is wondering as well: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...O01/212130472/

[Bham1982]

The first thing I thought when I read about this is that Ilitch doesn't actually own JLA or Cobo, so why is he paying property taxes? Apparently that is exactly what Ilitch is wondering as well:

I'm pretty sure Ilitch is aware that non-owners pay property taxes on long-term leaseholds.

[DetroitPlanner]

I'm pretty sure Ilitch is aware that non-owners pay property taxes on long-term leaseholds.

That sir depends on the terms of the lease.

[esp1986]

That sir depends on the terms of the lease.

And there is no lease. Since they are negotiating with the city, all of this is simply accruing.

They have said that $2 million has been spent on renovations... if they wanted a long term lease, i.e. 30 years, that would have been a cost paid by the owner to renovate the facility...

When they have an agreement in place, all those costs will be figured in and they will settle-up.

This amounts to no more than a circumstantial error. Under the old lease agreement, I recall there being a tax split between the city and Olympia. Typically, in a long-term lease case, the lessee would pay them. In this case, they didn't, and they are continuing to operate under the terms of the old agreement while a new one is being worked out.

One of the highlights of the old lease expiring was that the city could collect more rent, property taxes and more of the gate revenues...

Under the terms of the old lease, the tax rolls properly reflect this now being a taxable property. However, without a long term lease, the city is on the hook for that, which will likely be settled if/when they sign a new lease.

[Bham1982]

A billionaire like Ilitch obviously can't afford such outrageous taxation, [[amounting to less than a luxury Hamptons summer rental) and definitely needs more taxpayer-funded subsidies.

Clearly the man who has signed a half-billion in long-term Tigers contracts needs more public monies. How else can he afford a couple hundred grand in taxes on his downtown holdings?

[serpico]

Hell.. somebody had to pay for his hair.......

[downtownguy]

Hell.. somebody had to pay for his hair.......

He deserves to get his money refunded for that!

[downtownguy]

What a poorly written article. The first paragraph:

The Michigan House on Thursday approved legislation that will allow the Ilitch's companies to tap nearly $13 million in downtown tax money for a $650 million mixed use development.

How hard would it have been to say $13 million a year, which puts the amount of the subsidy in proper context to the proposed $650 million development? Sure, it appears later in the article, but the casual reader might not go that far. IMO, it is also extremely relevant that this is money currently slated for schools. But why include that in the first paragraph?

[Bham1982]

But why include that in the first paragraph?

Because both local papers have a pro-Ilitch agenda.

And I know times are tough for some in the newspaper business, but both papers are just ridiculously poorly written. The News in particular should probably just hang it up already. They're no better than some random community free weekly.

[401don]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Check out the last paragraph. Wings may use 2 million in repairs toward property taxes. Try that at home kids. Meanwhile Tigers fork over another 80 million for under .500 pitcher Sanchez.

[401don]

If property taxes have to be paid on for-profit leases, anyone bother to check if taxes are being paid at Comerica Park?

[gnome]

Does anyone know for certain if entertainers/sport stars are required to pay taxes on the income they earn inside the City? Also, do visiting teams have to pay income city income taxes?

[Wesley Mouch]

Does anyone know for certain if entertainers/sport stars are required to pay taxes on the income they earn inside the City? Also, do visiting teams have to pay income city income taxes?

Yes and yes! The city used to be pretty good at least sending a notice and tax packet to performers and sports teams -- that's pretty cheap. Agree that spending a lot to chase this money isn't worthwhile -- but notifying people of their obligations, and the occasional tough follow-up from existing staff is prudent.

I don't expect prudence from Detroit staff, unfortunately.

[esp1986]

Technically, yes and yes. They should be paying this. Many municipalities that collect income taxes, allow for a deduction for taxes paid to another city for "days out of town." However, players wouldn't get that deduction unless they pay tax in those other cities... Either way, City of Detroit taxes should be withheld from Detroit athlete's checks to the tune of about 1.2%.

Players from other teams should be paying tax in the city as well, as that is where the income is earned. However, the burden is on the city to make a case and prove this. In these times for Detroit, the investment to figure all of this out, is not a wise allocation of such limited resources for the city. In better times, if they are trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of people, they could undertake this. I personally have a lot of clients who had this happen during the downturn. A lot of states and cities went after a our clients for what literally amounted to a few dollars worth of tax in some cases, but cost our clients a few thousand to take care of in total. I'm curious whether or not the states and cities actually got more out of it than it cost them to administrate...

[Gistok]

p69... these problems do beg the question... how did Marion Ilitch get a Casino license, when others were denied on lesser problems... Or does nonpayment not constitute a criminal offense? .... such as a domestic dispute, which I know curtailed the casino careers of at least one potential casino owner...

[p69rrh51]

p69... these problems do beg the question... how did Marion Ilitch get a Casino license, when others were denied on lesser problems... Or does nonpayment not constitute a criminal offense? .... such as a domestic dispute, which I know curtailed the casino careers of at least one potential casino owner...

Good question, but then how did she get a license even though her husband owns 2 sports teams? They cannot separate her completely from all of Ilitch holdings.I remember the two of them were standing as one when they bought the Wings. Did she magically become detached from the team overnight? I have always thought her license was a little shady. The press has always coddled them and I think because one "benevolent" act she got the hall pass.

[401don]

Good question, but then how did she get a license even though her husband owns 2 sports teams? They cannot separate her completely from all of Ilitch holdings.I remember the two of them were standing as one when they bought the Wings. Did she magically become detached from the team overnight? I have always thought her license was a little shady. The press has always coddled them and I think because one "benevolent" act she got the hall pass.

The NHL never opposed an owner also owning a casino. MLB made Marion's name disappear from the Tigers' ownership. I remember the next yr. they were embarrassed when her name mistakenly appeared in the American League Press Guide. The NBA made the Ontario Gov't remove the NBA from the ProLine Lottery before approving the Raptors franchise. They have obviously changed their policies since Gilbert owns the Cavs and a Cleveland casino.

[Gistok]

401don is correct... the only separations of the Mike & Marion team is that Mike can have nothing to do with casinos and Marion can have nothing to do with baseball... [[apparently that's not retroactive)... otherwise they're a team. Should Mike predecease Marion [[which is generally likely) then the children will get the baseball franchise.

[Novine]

Ilitch Rules are the Detroit version of Jordan Rules.

[Richard]

Ilitch was represented by Miller Canfield,the city must now use Miller Canfield for representation,it would be a conflict of interest for Miller Canfield while representing the COD to have any involvement with any legal matters when it comes to Ilitch,so who is going to review the new "lease terms",and was there a time limit on the old lease for renewal,it has been two years,should the property have been put back on the market two years ago,it is kinda like hold this property for me at the COD expense while I decide what I am going to do in the next 10 years.

Is COD going to hire different representation for legal matters concerning Ilitch?

[Wesley Mouch]

Ilitch was represented by Miller Canfield,the city must now use Miller Canfield for representation,it would be a conflict of interest for Miller Canfield while representing the COD to have any involvement with any legal matters when it comes to Ilitch,so who is going to review the new "lease terms",and was there a time limit on the old lease for renewal,it has been two years,should the property have been put back on the market two years ago,it is kinda like hold this property for me at the COD expense while I decide what I am going to do in the next 10 years.

Is COD going to hire different representation for legal matters concerning Ilitch?

No doubt a single firm representing two clients must be a very common situation with established rules to prevent 'conflict of interest'. I see little reason to assume that the fact that the same firm represents two organizations is immediately a COI. M-C is not a two-man law firm where they all sit around the lunch table sharing secrets.

Do we have a lawyer here who can explain the rules?

[Richard]

No doubt a single firm representing two clients must be a very common situation with established rules to prevent 'conflict of interest'. I see little reason to assume that the fact that the same firm represents two organizations is immediately a COI. M-C is not a two-man law firm where they all sit around the lunch table sharing secrets.

Do we have a lawyer here who can explain the rules?

I am not a lawyer but as an "outsider" I had contacted the top five corporate attorneys to establish a corporate representation within the city,I had to email them a list of who I had had discussions with in the city,it was a list of about 5 people in the private sector who you guys discuss frequently excluding city/county employees,I was rejected representation because they decided it was a conflict of interest even though what I was doing would have had little impact in the areas of what the others do so I really did not see any reason for a possiabilty of future litigation.

I guess it is kinda like when you are getting divorce you pick all of the top divorce lawyers and have a consultation with them so then the potential ex wife can not retain them as it would be a conflict of interest.Bad example I know.

It would be interesting to see how this works,the lawyers duty is to look out for their clients best interest,I am not sure of the okay you are both my clients so lets do the right thing,maybe there is a lawyer that would be like that but they are how they are because it is what they get paid to do.

[Bad Brains]

Of all the money the Illitch brings in, they are going to complain about 1.5 million? That would be the equivalent of me reaching into my giant jar of change and grabbing a few nickles and some pennies to give to someone. Maybe it's a principle thing?