Anyone pissed the Michigan Land Bank is going to sell the State Fairgrounds for a $1?

**detroitsgwenivere** · December-12-12, 12:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13MvY_Nm_8g

http://growtown.org/blog/news/

https://www.facebook.com/FutureOfThe...nds?ref=stream

http://www.uptowndetroit.org/

Trust folks, there's a whole lot more going on behind the scenes than people realize.

**Rolfsy** · December-12-12, 12:57 PM

For a low-res scan of Magic's proposal summary . . .

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/landbank/Drawings_398163_7.pdf

**Scottathew** · December-12-12, 01:04 PM

I don't think the plan is that bad either. I think it will still promote the need for M1 rail. Young folks working downtown will look at moving there with the thought of taking transit to work, whether it be bus or light rail.

Right now I think it's more important to connect downtown and midtown both with transit, and also with active street wall.

**jolla** · December-12-12, 03:36 PM

Anything that replaces stuff that scares the bejeezus out of the suburbanites is fine with me.

**leapfrog** · December-12-12, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

I still wish they would have built that damn race track there. I don't even like racing, but that area is a complete wasteland and the racing fans would have at least brought money to spend.

Good idea, but impractical. As was the major complaint then, the noise level would have been too much for the surrounding neighborhoods.

I live in Ferndale, and I remember it being a concern even for those north of the Fairgrounds.

I do understand your point about it at least bringing people into the area to [[hopefully) spend money.

**davewindsor** · December-12-12, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Scott

As it stands currently, the State Fairgrounds is slated to be sold to the Magic Plus group for a $1. The plan to is to develop a mixed use site. At the community meeting they held, it all looked very cookie cutter.

I agree with you. It sounds like a real screw over. Adjacent to the Fairgrounds, they are building the Gateway Marketplace http://www.gatewaymarketplace.net/ It's includes a Marshalls, Meijer, etc. A $72m 350,000sq ft commercial plaza. The fairgrounds were appraised for $13m. With this new development next door, the fairgrounds land is now worth a lot of money because of the neighborhood improvements. So, Magic Johnson comes around and offers $1 for the fairgrounds and they fast track it to him. http://allmyprojects.wordpress.com/2...troitnews-com/ He should pay market value. Talk about a tax payer screw over.

**Novine** · December-12-12, 09:16 PM

There's nothing impressive at all about this proposal. It's a mish-mash of "feel-good" elements intended to win over people, not that make sense. It has transit, it has senior housing, it has a pocket park, it has a train station - but none of these elements work together and there's nothing to indicate that any of the potential partners like DDOT or Amtrak are on board with these concepts. You would think a massive commercial development would have some commitments lined up from major retailers. Not this one. But as we've seen, when it comes to development in Detroit, people are ready to fall over themselves when anyone proposes anything that they accept these proposals hook, line and sinker.

**prokopowicz** · December-12-12, 09:27 PM

I hope Theater Bizarre bids $2.

Shollin · December-12-12, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

There's nothing impressive at all about this proposal. It's a mish-mash of "feel-good" elements intended to win over people, not that make sense. It has transit, it has senior housing, it has a pocket park, it has a train station - but none of these elements work together and there's nothing to indicate that any of the potential partners like DDOT or Amtrak are on board with these concepts. You would think a massive commercial development would have some commitments lined up from major retailers. Not this one. But as we've seen, when it comes to development in Detroit, people are ready to fall over themselves when anyone proposes anything that they accept these proposals hook, line and sinker.

When 40% of the city is vacant, and another 40% is derelict you don't have investors lining up. I guess they could make it a tree farm.

**rb336** · December-12-12, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

IThe fairgrounds were appraised for $13m. .

Appraised by whom?

JVB · December-12-12, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

There's nothing impressive at all about this proposal. It's a mish-mash of "feel-good" elements intended to win over people, not that make sense. It has transit, it has senior housing, it has a pocket park, it has a train station - but none of these elements work together and there's nothing to indicate that any of the potential partners like DDOT or Amtrak are on board with these concepts. You would think a massive commercial development would have some commitments lined up from major retailers. Not this one. But as we've seen, when it comes to development in Detroit, people are ready to fall over themselves when anyone proposes anything that they accept these proposals hook, line and sinker.

Magic and his investment group aren't in business to lose money. If they're going to spend the money to clean up and develop it into something then they fully intend to make it work, whether you see their vision or not. Businesses spend money to make money, government spends money because it's not theirs and they can always take more.

Getting another major player in Detroit to compete with Gilbert, Illitch etc in rebuilding this city can only lead to good things. Thankfully City Council didn't make them wait 4 years like Hantz...

**mwilbert** · December-12-12, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

Magic and his investment group aren't in business to lose money.

But we should not be in the business of giving them free land in order to make sure they don't lose money.

Maybe this is the best use of that land, but I don't see why there should be a big hurry to redevelop that particular tract. And as other people have said, this particular proposal is just a laundry list of disconnected things that people like in the abstract, not a real plan.

I think I'd rather see a tree farm there; at least you could get rid of it easily if you wanted the land for something else.

JVB · December-12-12, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

But we should not be in the business of giving them free land in order to make sure they don't lose money.

Maybe this is the best use of that land, but I don't see why there should be a big hurry to redevelop that particular tract. And as other people have said, this particular proposal is just a laundry list of disconnected things that people like in the abstract, not a real plan.

I think I'd rather see a tree farm there; at least you could get rid of it easily if you wanted the land for something else.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but perhaps you're not understanding how markets work. If the land was worth more than $1, it would have sold for more than $1.

The reason we should be in a hurry to develop tracts like this and others is precisely because so much of Detroit is worthless in its present state and needs to be redeveloped in order to have any value and bring in tax revenue so that services can be provided to residents.

**Richard** · December-12-12, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

I'm not trying to be a dick, but perhaps you're not understanding how markets work. If the land was worth more than $1, it would have sold for more than $1.

The reason we should be in a hurry to develop tracts like this and others is precisely because so much of Detroit is worthless in its present state and needs to be redeveloped in order to have any value and bring in tax revenue so that services can be provided to residents.

It is not being sold for $1 because that is the value of the land,it is more so based on the added overall value to the city as a revenue generator when developed ,so if the true value is $10 million then whoever acquires it is receiving that value off of the top as the first incentive.

Most of what they are proposing is fed based funded so the city is in essence hiring a developer and receiving a added tax base for payment.

Notice how many deals are popping up all of the sudden and are being pushed through? The CC is all of the sudden starting to act like they are supposed to? Maybe it's because they realize that the city is going to be a whole different ball game next year.

Now is the worst time to be in a hurry ,for the city that is, unless you have a bunch of cash then there is nice profit in mayhem and desperation ,take a deep breath and fix the city gov ,the rest will fall into place.

**davewindsor** · December-12-12, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

I'm not trying to be a dick, but perhaps you're not understanding how markets work. If the land was worth more than $1, it would have sold for more than $1.

The reason we should be in a hurry to develop tracts like this and others is precisely because so much of Detroit is worthless in its present state and needs to be redeveloped in order to have any value and bring in tax revenue so that services can be provided to residents.

It's not how markets works. This classic Kwame level Detroit corruption. Whenever you have a major commercial anchor like a Walmart or Meijer store open up, the commercial land surrounding is automatically worth millions. I used to be a commercial realtor. It's always the case. Why was only Magic's proposal allowed to go through and the other two rejected? There's no details on them. I'm sure that Gateway would have made an offer in the millions if given the chance since it borders their property where they're investing $72m and I'm sure they'd eventually expand their plaza according to market demand.

Not only that, this land touches 8 mile. It's not in the middle of a warzone like Hantz Farms. It borders Ferndale, Oakland County, where people who have money live and it's designed for those customers. If there's a robbery at this plaza, how much are you willing to bet that the police from Oakland would be there in an instant?

Are they paying for the Amtrack station out of their pocket or is Amtrack paying for their own station and buying land from them? Seniors housing? That's a big money maker. What do they charge? $3,500 a month per bed.

And Magic's getting it for $1. OUTRAGEOUS! There's no reason to fast track this. If he's not paying market price, it is a scam. This is Detroit corruption at its finest.

**Novine** · December-12-12, 11:39 PM

"Magic and his investment group aren't in business to lose money. If they're going to spend the money to clean up and develop it into something then they fully intend to make it work, whether you see their vision or not."

That was the same garbage spun out by the developer of the abandoned development off Telegraph Road on the Pontiac/Bloomfield Hills border. The fact that people have money, or someone else's money, to burn doesn't mean that their vision for the property makes any sense. Come see the half developed Fountain Walk mall in Novi for an example of the genius of the private sector developer. I think it's on its 3rd or 4th owner. While you're out here, you can see abandoned subdivisions and vacant strip malls built by people with ''a vision". If banks and lenders want to give money to such schemes, it's stupid but it's their choice. It definitely doesn't mean that the government should be subsidizing it with free land.

**davewindsor** · December-12-12, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Appraised by whom?

"A state Senate Fiscal Agency analysis said the land was appraised at $13 million in 2007." http://www.freep.com/article/2012040...irgrounds-site

**rb336** · December-12-12, 11:56 PM

Thanks. Wonder what they based that on? It's awfully difficult to make those kind of appraisals because there are virtually no comparables. Frankly, in its location with nothing there, I just can't see that price.

JVB · December-13-12, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

...take a deep breath and fix the city gov ,the rest will fall into place.

Fix the city government? lol

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Not only that, this land touches 8 mile. It's not in the middle of a warzone like Hantz Farms.

That area of Detroit is every bit as bad [[or worse) than the area of Hantz Farm. Don't let the proximity to Ferndale fool you.

Originally Posted by davewindsor

It borders Ferndale, Oakland County, where people who have money live and it's designed for those customers. If there's a robbery at this plaza, how much are you willing to bet that the police from Oakland would be there in an instant?

I would gladly take that bet. Ferndale didn't just start bordering Detroit and if there is robbery on the Detroit side they'll ignore it like they always do.

**Richard** · December-13-12, 12:01 AM

Also do not forget the new arena thing is slamming the tax capture through the senate, so give the land , use the tax capture to devolope it ,slick deal.

**Richard** · December-13-12, 12:10 AM

[QUOTE=JVB;356459]Fix the city government? lol

That is what your up comming elections are for ,or find a good deal on bulk grease to ease the pain and stick with status qou,I would hate to think that the millions being spent with the FBI helping to clear the path is in vain.

**davewindsor** · December-13-12, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by JVB

That area of Detroit is every bit as bad [[or worse) than the area of Hantz Farm. Don't let the proximity to Ferndale fool you.

I would gladly take that bet. Ferndale didn't just start bordering Detroit and if there is robbery on the Detroit side they'll ignore it like they always do.

If that area of Detroit is so bad, why is Gateway spending $72m building a plaza beside the fairgrounds? Why would Meijer and Marshalls sign leases in Gateway if there will be piss poor policing? Sorry, what you said doesn't add up.

**corktownyuppie** · December-13-12, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by jolla

[["would Chicago allow a tree farm?"), open your eyes to reality and look for a way out of the mess.

Oh I wish I was there for someone to ask this out loud. My response would be:

- Would Chicago argue that bankruptcy is better than all alternatives?
- Would Chicago let 50 bombed out and blighted house sit around?
- Would Chicago let Millennium Park turn into a s**thole then complain when someone wit money offered to operate it?

We have more unwanted land than we know what do with. I'd rather it be unwanted in the form of trees than unwanted in the form of drug deals gone bad.

**corktownyuppie** · December-13-12, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Thanks. Wonder what they based that on? It's awfully difficult to make those kind of appraisals because there are virtually no comparables. Frankly, in its location with nothing there, I just can't see that price.

You're not far off. The problem isn't just the comparables. It's also the date. 2007 was right before the annihilation of real estate values all over the country. Not that the property is worth $1, either.

I do generally agree that this is a sweetheart deal in a way that the Hantz deal isn't. Yes, that land might one day in some imaginary world be good for development. But this land is good for development right in the here and now.

Sort of...keeping in mind that there's plenty of cheap real estate out there.

JVB · December-13-12, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

If that area of Detroit is so bad, why is Gateway spending $72m building a plaza beside the fairgrounds? Why would Meijer and Marshalls sign leases in Gateway if there will be piss poor policing? Sorry, what you said doesn't add up.

I'm not privy to what their security plans are, I'm just telling you Ferndale has never given a shit what happens across 8 Mile so I don't know why they would start now. And the area is completely fucked, but 8/Woodward sees a ton of traffic so they think they can make it work. Good for them and I wish them the best of luck, but none of the other commercial development on 8 Mile [[Bel-Air for instance) has attracted suburban shoppers so I'm not holding my breath. It'll be better than what's there now, which is nothing. But I don't expect it to transform the area anymore than any of the other commercial development along 8 mile has helped improve the neighborhoods near them [[which is to say, not at all).