Pistons dwindling attendance renews calls for team to move downtown.

**iheartthed** · November-29-12, 10:19 AM

It's time the Pistons brought the old Palace upper-deck tarp used for those sparse Detroit Shock basketball crowds out of mothballs. They limited the seating during those WNBA games to avoid the visual embarrassment of vast sections of seats during home games occupied only by fidgety crickets.

The attendance Wednesday night was so meager, the handful of people in the upper deck no doubt heard Pistons coach Lawrence Frank scream "pistol" for a specific offensive set so clearly that their first impulse was probably to hit the deck out of fear.

How much longer can this franchise keep fooling itself into believing that it can independently exist 30 miles away from this sports community's epicenter -- downtown Detroit?

...

They announced the attendance at 10,517. Nice try, Pistons. Maybe 3,000 bothered showing up. They're the only team in the NBA this season that's filling less than 60% of its arena. Their overall average attendance is the second lowest in the league.

...
Why would playing downtown make any difference?

It's about habit. It's about familiarity. The market the Pistons court is now more comfortable spending their time and disposable entertainment dollar downtown than they were 20 years ago -- even if Auburn Hills is a closer destination.
And it also can't be forgotten that it's no longer economically viable in Detroit for four professional sports teams to thrive in four separate facilities. The corporate support simply isn't there.

http://www.freep.com/article/20121129/COL08/311290210/Drew-Sharp-Too-few-see-Pistons-win-time-to-move-downtown

**313WX** · November-29-12, 10:22 AM

To quote these famous words: "Well duh!!!"

**Wheels** · November-29-12, 10:27 AM

Wow, for a minute I thought it was because they sucked.

**Scottathew** · December-02-12, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Wow, for a minute I thought it was because they sucked.

LOL

I would love to see the Pistons come downtown and she the JLA or some new future arena.

It makes sense, it's more centered within the metro area, and it will help build on the downtown momentum.

Shollin · November-29-12, 10:30 AM

The Pistons aren't drawing fans because they are terrible. When they were good and going to the ECF every year, they were leading the NBA in attendence. I wouldn't be opposed to a new Red Wings/Pistons arena, but it makes no sense for the Pistons. The Palace is a fine building. Still one of the best in the NBA. It's also one of the busiest arenas in the nation. Tom Gores owns the Palace so he makes all the profit on the arena. Why is he going to spend money on a downtown arena? The Palace is a money machine.

**Bham1982** · November-29-12, 10:49 AM

They had the highest attendance in the NBA for many years. This streak only ended when they started to suck four years ago.

So was that high attendance also attributable to their Auburn Hills location?

The Palace is a million times better than JLA. Until there's a new arena [[which isn't happening anytime soon), the Wings would be more likely to move to the Palace than the Pistons are to move downtown.

**Trueblood** · December-13-12, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

The Pistons aren't drawing fans because they are terrible. When they were good and going to the ECF every year, they were leading the NBA in attendence. I wouldn't be opposed to a new Red Wings/Pistons arena, but it makes no sense for the Pistons. The Palace is a fine building. Still one of the best in the NBA. It's also one of the busiest arenas in the nation. Tom Gores owns the Palace so he makes all the profit on the arena. Why is he going to spend money on a downtown arena? The Palace is a money machine.

That's part of the reason why a move downtown actually makes sense. People keep saying that the Palace is too good to become a white elephant. I agree but it wouldn't be a white elephant if the Pistons leave. In fact, it would be just as busy as before. With 84 Piston and Red Wing games being played downtown, all the overflow would go to the Palace.

Gores knew what he was doing when he bought Palace Sports and Entertainment. He knew that the Pistons weren't going to make him a huge profit in the early going but with all the events at DTE and the Palace, he would be making up for it. With better attendance at a downtown arena, Gores would in effect be making revenue from 2 buildings as opposed to just one.

**Lowell** · November-29-12, 11:01 AM

I was about to start a Piston attendance thread after watching last night's 40 point blow out win over Phoenix. The place was so empty I got curious as to what the official attendance was. I almost laughed when I saw it listed as 10517 - blatantly not the case. Who are they trying to deceive? Their sponsors and advertisers?

I attended the Celts game last week and I think there had to be as many comps, staff and entertainers as there were paid fans.

From that experience, moving downtown makes sense in a number of ways. A long drive lands you in a parking desert with nothing else around. At least downtown has pubs, casinos and other points of interest than that nowhere land.

Shollin · November-29-12, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

I was about to start a Piston attendance thread after watching last night's 40 point blow out win over Phoenix. The place was so empty I got curious as to what the official attendance was. I almost laughed when I saw it listed as 10517 - blatantly not the case. Who are they trying to deceive? Their sponsors and advertisers?

I attended the Celts game last week and I think there had to be as many comps, staff and entertainers as there were paid fans.

From that experience, moving downtown makes sense in a number of ways. A long drive lands you in a parking desert with nothing else around. At least downtown has pubs, casinos and other points of interest than that nowhere land.

the 10k is paid attendance. Not everyone who buys a ticket shows up. Probably a lot of ticket brokers sitting on tickets

**Lowell** · November-29-12, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

the 10k is paid attendance. Not everyone who buys a ticket shows up. Probably a lot of ticket brokers sitting on tickets

Yeah I know that, but if I am an advertiser with my ads plastered all over the place I'm pretty PO'd at the lack of eyeballs. Vendors have to similarly unhappy.

Attendance aside IMO the biggest obstacle to a move is that Gores owns the Palace. What is he going to do that elephant if they move?

**GPCharles** · November-29-12, 11:04 AM

It's simple - the Pistons believe that their market, at the price points they are charging, is in Oakland County.

As stated above, a good team will re-fill the arena.

**401don** · November-29-12, 11:47 AM

Piston fans were really spoiled with 6 straight yrs. in the Eastern finals. While I think attendance will rebound somewhat to a legitimate 13-14,000 average when the team is more competitive, they will remain near the bottom of the league. It`s quickly become out-of-fashion to go to Pistons games and people aren`t willing to make the extra effort that they were when the team was a contender. Being downtown might bump attendance by 4-5,000 per game but that wouldn`t come close to making economic sense.

**401don** · November-29-12, 11:54 AM

On a related note, during the last NHL lockout many thought an arena announcement would quickly follow a new agreement. Here we are in the same situation 4 yrs. later. It seems that financing a new arena with only one tenant may be very tough these days and not seen as economically viable.

**iheartthed** · November-29-12, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

On a related note, during the last NHL lockout many thought an arena announcement would quickly follow a new agreement. Here we are in the same situation 4 yrs. later. It seems that financing a new arena with only one tenant may be very tough these days and not seen as economically viable.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the missing piece for a new Wings arena is the Pistons as co-tenants. Even the Barclays Center in Brooklyn announced quickly after opening that the NY Islanders would move there from their arena on Long Island.

**mwilbert** · November-29-12, 12:42 PM

A really bad team is going to have trouble attracting people wherever they are located. The good thing is that with the size crowds they have now, they could move back to Cobo Arena, which was a pretty good place to watch a game.

Not a lot of luxury boxes though.

**Wheels** · November-29-12, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

A really bad team is going to have trouble attracting people wherever they are located. The good thing is that with the size crowds they have now, they could move back to Cobo Arena, which was a pretty good place to watch a game.

Not a lot of luxury boxes though.

I guess the Wing's could move back to the Olympia too?

**mtburb** · November-29-12, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

I guess the Wing's could move back to the Olympia too?

And while we're at it, let's move the Tigers and Lions back to Tiger Stadium.

**Zacha341** · November-29-12, 03:09 PM

And some prime theater at the Riviara!

Originally Posted by mtburb

And while we're at it, let's move the Tigers and Lions back to Tiger Stadium.

**Danny** · December-01-12, 01:20 PM

Since 1989 The Pistons move from the Silverdome to the Palace. It's a arena with no public transportation other than public shuttles, filled with mile around parking lots and its away from vibrant entertianment venues of Downtown Detroit. I don't like the plan, but its Mr. Bill Davidson's way to keep his team near Detroit without moving to someplace esle. Having a new stadium in Downtown Detroit for the Pistons will have to wait in the next 25 to 75 years. First Detroit has to deal with providing the Red Wings their new location for a stadium. Just like the Tigers and Lions teams when they recieve their stadiums; their will be other bureaucratic process that have to be taking care of first. This is no public demand for a new team stadiums in Downtown Detroit. It is mostly a corporate owner manner.

**dmike76** · November-29-12, 12:45 PM

I agree that the product is what matters, but that location sucks. It takes me almost an hour to get there in traffic and the only thing nearby is to walk across Lapeer Rd. to go to the bar formerly know as The Post. It'd be better downtown since it's more centralized for the 'burbs plus there's more to do in the D.

**Bham1982** · November-29-12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

It'd be better downtown since it's more centralized for the 'burbs plus there's more to do in the D.

I think Bill Davidson would have responded that the issue is whether it's convenient to his target demographic.

The arena is an easy 15 minutes from Bloomfield Hills, and that's pretty much the point. Very easy drive, especially on work nights.

I don't know if I agree with the decision, but I think that was his intent.

**gameguy56** · November-29-12, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I think Bill Davidson would have responded that the issue is whether it's convenient to his target demographic.

The arena is an easy 15 minutes from Bloomfield Hills, and that's pretty much the point. Very easy drive, especially on work nights.

I don't know if I agree with the decision, but I think that was his intent.

Is the target demographic for Pistons games really 50+ year old white dudes? Because that is the population of bloomfield hills. It has 3 of the 5 oldest zip codes in the state!

**Bham1982** · November-29-12, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Is the target demographic for Pistons games really 50+ year old white dudes

Pretty much, yeah.

Who do you think occupies the suites and courtside seats? Old dudes [[most of them white) from Bloomfield Hills and similar towns, most of which are concentrated within a few minutes of the Palace exit.

All the revenue is in the suites and lower level seats.

**p69rrh51** · November-29-12, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Pretty much, yeah.

Who do you think occupies the suites and courtside seats? Old dudes [[most of them white) from Bloomfield Hills and similar towns, most of which are concentrated within a few minutes of the Palace exit.

All the revenue is in the suites and lower level seats.

If you have the money you can sit there too! Although many of the choice seats are corporate. But then what does their skin color have to do with poor attendance? If they were Downtown or where they are located now attendance would be pretty much the same-LOUSY due a poor product.

**iheartthed** · November-29-12, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I think Bill Davidson would have responded that the issue is whether it's convenient to his target demographic.

The arena is an easy 15 minutes from Bloomfield Hills, and that's pretty much the point. Very easy drive, especially on work nights.

I don't know if I agree with the decision, but I think that was his intent.

They announced the attendance at 10,517. Nice try, Pistons. Maybe 3,000 bothered showing up. They're the only team in the NBA this season that's filling less than 60% of its arena. Their overall average attendance is the second lowest in the league.

Bloomfield Hills is a city located in the heart of Metro Detroit's affluent northern suburbs in Oakland County in the US state of Michigan, 20.2 miles [[32.5 km) northwest of downtown Detroit. As of the 2010 census, the city population was 3,869.

At least the target fan base is still turning out for the Pistons games!