Demolition of Select Detroit Freeways.

[iheartthed]

Actually the unditching of I-375, removal of Interstate Highway designation and converting it to a surface boulevard with a grassy median is something that has been seriously discussed, in the very recent past, by MDOT. Don't be too surprised if it actually happens, though not in the short term [[Federal money don't roll like that).

It must cost a ton of money to maintain and anyone who would argue that Detroit doesn't have too much road capacity sounds like an idiot. Detroit could probably get by with half of the freeway lanes it currently has without much inconvenience.

[RO_Resident]

This being said, the segment of I-375 being talked about is one of the few examples of Europave in North America. This was built to have a much longer life cycle than your typical roadway. The feds paid for this and would not want it torn up prior to the end of its lifecycle.

The European-spec pavement is on northbound I-75 from I-375 to just south of the Warren ramp.

[Gistok]

It must cost a ton of money to maintain and anyone who would argue that Detroit doesn't have too much road capacity sounds like an idiot. Detroit could probably get by with half of the freeway lanes it currently has without much inconvenience.

I take it you don't get out on the city freeways much on the weekend nights when MDOT has lane closures....

[iheartthed]

I take it you don't get out on the city freeways much on the weekend nights when MDOT has lane closures....

That's why G-d invented surface roads.

[Knightmessenger]

375 is useless. And as has been discussed here ad nauseum, the principle of induced demand explains why adding freeways actually makes traffic worse. [[Because it encourages everybody to take one single road instead of diffusing into multiple ones) I think Ford Field being bordered on two sides by freeways actually makes traffic worse because everyone crams to the entrances and they actually cut off two directions, you can't go north or east directly from the stadium. Think of how many different routes would be available if the freeways weren't there.
Still the fact you can park anywhere downtown and take the People Mover or walk to a bar before/after the game is much better than what you had with the Silverdome. Or the Palace now.
I'm pretty sure it was on one of these forums but somebody linked to a 6 minute video that explained how Vancouver has no urban freeways yet has little traffic congestion and showed areas where urban freeways were taken out.

[Gistok]

That's why G-d invented surface roads.

Just try taking one of those surface roads on the north half of Detroit eastbound or westbound between I-94 [[Harper) and 7 Mile.... one large roadblock. The east side and west side of the city are totally cut off from each other... were it not for I-94 and 7/8 Mile.

[Bham1982]

375 is useless. And as has been discussed here ad nauseum, the principle of induced demand explains why adding freeways actually makes traffic worse.

I've lost count how many times the concept of induced demand has been misrepresented on DYes, but it's got to be in the dozens now.

Now am I to assume that we shouldn't make any public transit improvements, because adding transit capacity will just make commutes worse?

Rome should just abandon all her roads and rely on the Appian Way. Finally their famous congestion problems will have been solved...

[Hermod]

Just try taking one of those surface roads on the north half of Detroit eastbound or westbound between I-94 [[Harper) and 7 Mile.... one large roadblock. The east side and west side of the city are totally cut off from each other... were it not for I-94 and 7/8 Mile.

Detroit has always had east-west traffic problems even in the days of horse cars. It is in the layout of the city with two different ribbon farm orientations [[those oriented on the river and those oriented on the lake) mixed in with the square grid of the Northwest Ordinance. Add to this the radial main roads and you have no clear routes till you get up to 7 and 8 mile.

[Gistok]

Detroit has always had east-west traffic problems even in the days of horse cars. It is in the layout of the city with two different ribbon farm orientations [[those oriented on the river and those oriented on the lake) mixed in with the square grid of the Northwest Ordinance. Add to this the radial main roads and you have no clear routes till you get up to 7 and 8 mile.

Agreed... they really do need to reopen McNichols!

[rb336]

That's why G-d invented surface roads.

Gerard Depardieu invented surface roads?

[Brian1979]

375 only came to being because they originally wanted to route I-75 closer to the river and I imagine it would have come out near the Ambassador Bridge. They should have covered it back up and rebuilt what was there instead of leaving it as an expressway.

Here in Chicago we don't have very much in the way of expressways interupting our downtown, we have the Kennedy/Dan Ryan combo that is west of the downtown area, the Ike comes in from the west but after the post office it terminates being an expressway and becomes Congress Parkway as a boulevard downtown. The Stevenson comes in from the Southwest and doesn't come that close to downtown, the Edens is well on the Northside and LSD is a boulevard. Detroit really screwed up when they were creating their expressways, they made it so the downtown area is handicapped from the rest of the city by expressways.

If Detroit would of been smart and built a mass transit system for the entire city like Chicago did then you wouldn't have the need to have a zillion expressways anywheres near downtown.

[ghettopalmetto]

I've lost count how many times the concept of induced demand has been misrepresented on DYes, but it's got to be in the dozens now.

Now am I to assume that we shouldn't make any public transit improvements, because adding transit capacity will just make commutes worse?

Rome should just abandon all her roads and rely on the Appian Way. Finally their famous congestion problems will have been solved...

Uh, what? How has induced demand been misrepresented on these forums? How *should* it be represented?

Public transit improvements should not be discounted based on the model of induced demand. The reason is that the capacity of transit within its footprint is far higher than for automobiles. For example, one light rail line can move as many people as eight lanes of freeway...using a LOT less real estate.

Your Rome example, illustrates MDOTs preferred method of "solving" congestion for the past 60 years...dump everyone onto one high-capacity road, and pray for the best.

[GPCharles]

This being said, the segment of I-375 being talked about is one of the few examples of Europave in North America. This was built to have a much longer life cycle than your typical roadway. The feds paid for this and would not want it torn up prior to the end of its lifecycle.

Only for 1 mile.

[Gistok]

375 only came to being because they originally wanted to route I-75 closer to the river and I imagine it would have come out near the Ambassador Bridge. They should have covered it back up and rebuilt what was there instead of leaving it as an expressway.

Um.... I don't believe that was ever the intention... the Lodge Freeway and Cobo Hall both predate I-375, and they both present obstructions that would have been virtually impossible for I-375 to have bypassed on a course westward along the riverfront without major costs. Just like the left exit Madison and Bagley downtown freeway exits are mirror image entrances/exits out of downtown, I-375 was intended to be a mirror image of the lower course of the Lodge Fwy in and out of downtown, from the very beginning.