Union Teachers ditch to attend anti-RTW rally

Shollin · December-10-12, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by southen

a rising tide lifts all boats. i love when people say "freedom" or "individualistic spirit" to justify a their political positions. it sounds a lot better than "selfishness" or "i dont give a crap about anyone else."

Not too mention non union people benefit from union wages when negotiating salary.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by southen

a rising tide lifts all boats. i love when people say "freedom" or "individualistic spirit" to justify a their political positions. it sounds a lot better than "selfishness" or "i dont give a crap about anyone else."

I am selfish and I do not give a crap about others! Its not my job and if they got of their fat asses you would not have to worry about them either.

**michimoby** · December-10-12, 06:25 PM

Wait, I'm confused.

I thought unions were concerned that they no longer would have dues-paying members to cover the costs of negotiation, yet the heads of these unions are telling their teachers to leave their classrooms in order to fight the legislation?

I find that, well, a bit ironic.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Not too mention non union people benefit from union wages when negotiating salary.

As non union I made more than the union employees bad example!

Shollin · December-10-12, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

As non union I made more than the union employees bad example!

Because your anecdotal eveidence alone proves it. If there wasn't a base set forth by union labor, you wouldn't have anything to negotiate on.

**southen** · December-10-12, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

I am selfish and I do not give a crap about others! Its not my job and if they got of their fat asses you would not have to worry about them either.

i think its a completely ass backwards view but kudos for at least owning it. many of your brethren dont.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

The point? It's pretty obvious. This legislation is to try to suppress wages. Auto plants avoid Michigan because they want to pay people as little as possible. I can't see how cutting middle class wages and benefits is any sort of progress.

Do you have the facts to back that up? I think the standard of living for those in the plants is quite high.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by southen

i think its a completely ass backwards view but kudos for at least owning it. many of your brethren dont.

Thx! But why is it ass backwards to take care of yourself and your family first?

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Because your anecdotal eveidence alone proves it. If there wasn't a base set forth by union labor, you wouldn't have anything to negotiate on.

No I could walk out to the another job and they wanted me! Still waiting for your facts to back up why companies passed on MI.

**southen** · December-10-12, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Thx! But why is it ass backwards to take care of yourself and your family first?

its the notion that you cant do both. you never prefaced the argument that you take care of yours first then focus on others, you simply said you dont give a crap. i dont jive with that and its a major sticking point i have with republicans.

**southen** · December-10-12, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

No I could walk out to the another job and they wanted me! Still waiting for your facts to back up why companies passed on MI.

silly to keep asking for facts when your argument is based on a personal experience and the fact that you "think" the standards of living in RTW plants are high...

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by southen

its the notion that you cant do both. you never prefaced the argument that you take care of yours first then focus on others, you simply said you dont give a crap. i dont jive with that and its a major sticking point i have with republicans.

Why should I focus on others? I have enough problems on my own and have absolutely no interest in theirs just as they have no interest in my problems! Seriously would you like to help cure all my problems-I would think not. Most people can take care of themselves and charities are for those who need real help.

JVB · December-10-12, 06:53 PM

I worked for a company that had UAW shops and a non-union shop. The non-union guys made more.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by southen

silly to keep asking for facts when your argument is based on a personal experience and the fact that you "think" the standards of living in RTW plants are high...

Shollin brought it up! I am just waiting for him to back it up. If the standards are lower I have no problem eating crow but I think he does not want to find out that they are not lower.

Shollin · December-10-12, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Shollin brought it up! I am just waiting for him to back it up. If the standards are lower I have no problem eating crow but I think he does not want to find out that they are not lower.

You're the one who brought up auto companies avoided Michigan due to unions. Why do I need to back up your claims?

**southen** · December-10-12, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Why should I focus on others? I have enough problems on my own and have absolutely no interest in theirs just as they have no interest in my problems! Seriously would you like to help cure all my problems-I would think not. Most people can take care of themselves and charities are for those who need real help.

takes a lot of focus to pay a union due? paying a union due involves diving into other peoples problems? there is a reason average pay and benefits are higher in union states. think you would have had as much success negotiating on your own in a right to work state where the bar is already set lower? think again.

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Shollin brought it up! I am just waiting for him to back it up. If the standards are lower I have no problem eating crow but I think he does not want to find out that they are not lower.

but you are making a claim as well. the burden is just as much on your to back things up. you didnt just ask for him to prove it, youre claiming theyre higher.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

You're the one who brought up auto companies avoided Michigan due to unions. Why do I need to back up your claims?

You are the one who says they are being paid sub standard wages, but then I know you do not want to know the real answer! I was just pissed we lost all those jobs due to the unions.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by southen

takes a lot of focus to pay a union due? paying a union due involves diving into other peoples problems? there is a reason average pay and benefits are higher in union states. think you would have had as much success negotiating on your own in a right to work state where the bar is already set lower? think again.

but you are making a claim as well. the burden is just as much on your to back things up. you didnt just ask for him to prove it, youre claiming theyre higher.

Yes I think all good workers will have not problems! Just the lazy coddled ones will actually have to get their act together.

Shollin · December-10-12, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

You are the one who says they are being paid sub standard wages, but then I know you do not want to know the real answer! I was just pissed we lost all those jobs due to the unions.

Wait, so you can make blanket statements that jobs were lost to unions and don't have to back it up, but I need to back up a statement made in relation to your statement?

Shollin · December-10-12, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Yes I think all good workers will have not problems! Just the lazy coddled ones will actually have to get their act together.

7 of the 10 bottom states in wages are non union, and 7 of the top 10 states in wages are union.

The data on wages tell a fairly clear story: Of the top 10 states in per capita income in 2011, seven were not right-to work states. Of the bottom 10 states, seven were right-to-work.
"There is a lot of evidence that wages and benefits are lower in right-to-work states," Belman said. "There's a redistribution of wages and benefits toward owners' capital."

http://www.freep.com/article/20121207/BUSINESS06/312070145/Economists-not-convinced-state-will-see-benefits

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 07:36 PM

Here is another comparison I found I used Roseville and Montgomery, AL home of a Hyundia Factory interesting one would make more in Montgomery than here. We can banter back and forth time will tell. But at least you did your research kudos to that.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salar...city2=50151000

**Detroitnerd** · December-10-12, 07:37 PM

If you really don't believe in helping other people, and really are selfish, don't be surprised when people think your opinions are worthless and totally irresponsible.

It's because, here on planet Earth, we can and do take care of each other, in person and through instruments known as unions and government.

Shollin · December-10-12, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Here is another comparison I found I used Roseville and Montgomery, AL home of a Hyundia Factory interesting one would make more in Montgomery than here. We can banter back and forth time will tell. But at least you did your research kudos to that.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salar...city2=50151000

What does a higher cost of living in Montgomery AL have to do with anything?

Shollin · December-10-12, 07:46 PM

The poverty rate in Montgomery is 21.6 and it's 14.9 in Roseville. Why you selected Roseville is beyond me since it doesn't have any factories. Alabama meanwhile is the 9th poorest state in the country.

**p69rrh51** · December-10-12, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

If you really don't believe in helping other people, and really are selfish, don't be surprised when people think your opinions are worthless and totally irresponsible.

It's because, here on planet Earth, we can and do take care of each other, in person and through instruments known as unions and government.

Really you do care, I am a diabetic do you want to pay my insurance? I doubt it. How about my insulin I would love to have you to pay the $1,200-$1,500 a month it costs and I can guarantee NOBODY on here wants to! Unions take and governments take more without any benefit except to the lazy. You want to stop job growth what is more reckless than that!