Dan Gilberts Retail Renaissance to include 70-90 retailers, including Target & Apple

**313WX** · October-09-13, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I'm at the Starbucks on Woodward and MLK/Mack Ave. A dude snatched someone's laptop and ran out the door. The cops were here in less than 60 seconds, and 10 minutes later 4 cops returned with the laptop and an arrest.

Not gonna lie, I like to hype Detroit, but even I was blown away.

WSU cops or DPD cops?

**nain rouge** · October-09-13, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

Apple does operate stores nearby troubled areas. It's not an issue for them or their customers. It's normal for these stores to have security and also pay for private security service in their dues as a part of a business district association if available.

You mean Oakland Mall? If you think an Apple store is opening in inner city Detroit any time soon - or inner city Cleveland, St. Louis, or what have you - then I want some of what you're smoking. And I don't use that phrase much. Unless Robocop is about to patrol the streets, it ain't happening.

**rb336** · October-09-13, 10:41 PM

Smart people realize that dumb consumers will pay big money for mediocre goods if the brand name makes that consumer feel good. The consumer typically cares more about the brand name than the underlying quality of the good. The brand can get away with less than top quality because they don't have quality-focused consumers, they have advertising-focused consumers.

Brooks Bros. are a fine case in point. I managed to see their invoice on a suit I was looking at that they sold for $800+. The invoice price? under $40

**corktownyuppie** · October-09-13, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

WSU cops or DPD cops?

WAyne State's finest

**313WX** · October-09-13, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

WAyne State's finest

Ok, that explains the response.

**wolverine** · October-09-13, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

You mean Oakland Mall? If you think an Apple store is opening in inner city Detroit any time soon - or inner city Cleveland, St. Louis, or what have you - then I want some of what you're smoking. And I don't use that phrase much. Unless Robocop is about to patrol the streets, it ain't happening.

You misquoted. I actually said that. There's a store here in Chicago in Cabrini Green. It was part of the larger North Ave "Blackhawk Development" to build a mega retail and residential center out of a complete hellhole. It worked really well. At the store, kids from the projects often putz around on the computers in there. No problems. And there's even a public plaza outside the store at the subway station where people have their ipads and laptops open at the tables. One security guy oversees stuff.

So yeah, "What are these people smoking?"

**Spartan** · October-10-13, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

If these guys made their suits in Detroit, I'd be rooting for them. But, it's made in China. More crap from China, just like the stuff you can buy for a lot less from Walmart. Last time I checked, I could buy a decent looking Chinese made suit from Walmart for $80. Does the job. Unless it has the Ralph Lauren brand, it wouldn't be worth more. I wouldn't pay $500 for a no name suit made in China either just because they are selling it locally and claim it's on par with Ralph Lauren and Gucci. But, had it been made locally I might actually consider having a look. But, it's not, so who cares??

You can't just assume that it is crap because it's made in China. Would you purchase a $500 Gucci suit that was made in China? Why are you so caught up in the China portion of their business and not the Italy portion? What makes you believe that tailors in Italy are better than those in China? [[it's marketing). They're not shipping the fabrics off to a sweatshop with 10-year-olds sewing on a 30-year old Singer, they're sending them to tailors.

Of course you can get a Chinese suit from Walmart for $80. Not all products are equal. Hitachi and Samsung TVs are both Japanese, but that doesn't mean they're equals in quality. I don't think you'll find an $80 suit that is custom-made or has high-quality fabric, let alone both. I agree, I would be more inclined to support them if they were made in Detroit, but let's not forget their initial model: high quality suits for low cost. Manufacturing locally often drives costs higher [[see your own AA example). I'd be happy to see some local entrepreneurs succeed. They don't have to make things in Detroit to achieve word-of-mouth, they just need to make a good product.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-10-13, 11:21 AM

I wonder why Gilbert has not opened a Fathead Store downtown?

**bailey** · October-10-13, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I wonder why Gilbert has not opened a Fathead Store downtown?

Is that something that has stores? I could see Fatheads IN a store, but a stand alone store?

regarding the 1701 Bespoke guys... Nice to see...good luck to them and I will look at them for my next suit..because why not? but it really puts in perspective how little there is downtown when two guys opening a virtual tailor/bespoke suit shop in temp location is "newsworthy". I mean Tom James..etc reps spam my email all day every day. Where's the Crains article on them?

**DetroitPlanner** · October-10-13, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Is that something that has stores? I could see Fatheads IN a store, but a stand alone store?

I've never seen one, but I would assume that it would be unique and there would be a market as most of the sports teams are down here.

It would be relatively easy for Gilbert to do, I am just wondering why there is not one if he is as pro-downtown retail as this thread claims. It is not like he lacks the space. Maybe he questions the market?

**nain rouge** · October-10-13, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

So yeah, "What are these people smoking?"

Oh, come on, Chicago is a completely different animal. Once the city rid itself of the Cabrini Green projects, gentrification there was obvious. Cabrini Green is right next to downtown neighborhoods that just got out of a major high rise residential building spree - I'm talking high rises so tall they'd be a major part of the skyline in Detroit. And the north side of Chicago has always been nice. The projects were an anomaly, not a rule, and now the projects are largely gone.

Meanwhile, we're still tearing down our tall buildings here. Our crime rates are significantly higher. We have maybe one or two employers that can compare with the companies in downtown Chicago. We have almost no significant retail, while Chicago still has the Miracle Mile and other areas.

Only a Detroiter would compare Detroit to Chicago. I'm not saying an Apple Store is out of the question maybe 5 or 10 years from now, but you're crazy if you think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

**downtownguy** · October-10-13, 12:04 PM

davewindsor, thanks for chiming in with your always spot-on comments. I hadn't seen you here for a while. I thought you might have had an unfortunate accident in a cesspool.

**davewindsor** · October-10-13, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan

You can't just assume that it is crap because it's made in China. Would you purchase a $500 Gucci suit that was made in China? Why are you so caught up in the China portion of their business and not the Italy portion? What makes you believe that tailors in Italy are better than those in China? [[it's marketing). They're not shipping the fabrics off to a sweatshop with 10-year-olds sewing on a 30-year old Singer, they're sending them to tailors.

Of course you can get a Chinese suit from Walmart for $80. Not all products are equal. Hitachi and Samsung TVs are both Japanese, but that doesn't mean they're equals in quality. I don't think you'll find an $80 suit that is custom-made or has high-quality fabric, let alone both. I agree, I would be more inclined to support them if they were made in Detroit, but let's not forget their initial model: high quality suits for low cost. Manufacturing locally often drives costs higher [[see your own AA example). I'd be happy to see some local entrepreneurs succeed. They don't have to make things in Detroit to achieve word-of-mouth, they just need to make a good product.

My issue isn't the quality of the fabrics. My issue is someone starting a business and saying they are on par with a hundred year old company like Gucci and then saying that they are the better deal.

It's not. It's apples and oranges. What's the difference between their selling high quality suits for "low cost" and someone selling a replica Gucci suit made in China? I can buy an almost perfect $8K Rolex replica for a couple hundred bucks. It looks so close to the real deal that you really couldn't tell the difference in quality.

If you're an artist and make an exact copy of a Van Gogh, does that mean your painting is worth millions of dollars?? What if you said, hey, I'll give you a near perfect copy of a Van Gogh for half a million. It's a good deal because it's cheaper. No way. It's not the real deal. Gucci is a value added product like artwork. It takes decades, even centuries, to establish that kind of value branding. These mf'ers come around and say, hey we just started a company where we've made nice copies of Gucci's process and we're going to sell it to you for a cheaper price and it's a good deal because we're on par with them. No they're not. They're selling counterfeits at best. It's delusional to think a new company is on par with Gucci and Ralph Lauren. It's the completely wrong way to go about establishing a new company. I suggested a better, more genuine way like making it in Detroit like AA makes their products in LA.

And RB made a good point about Brooks Bros selling an $800 suit that they bought for $40. How much does this Italian fabric cost? How much are they paying to have these suits manufacturered in China? $30 total? Let's see their numbers, not just hear sales pitches. And if the margins are that great, why not make it in Detroit?

**davewindsor** · October-10-13, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

davewindsor, thanks for chiming in with your always spot-on comments. I hadn't seen you here for a while. I thought you might have had an unfortunate accident in a cesspool.

No accidents. I guess not all your birthday wishes come true.

**bailey** · October-10-13, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

It's not. It's apples and oranges. What's the difference between their selling high quality suits for "low cost" and someone selling a replica Gucci suit made in China? I can buy an almost perfect $8K Rolex replica for a couple hundred bucks. It looks so close to the real deal that you really couldn't tell the difference in quality.

Its a "counterfeit" if they slap a "Guuci" label or "Folex" on it. They aren't. They're saying they can get high quality, bespoke for a lower price by NOT dumping truckloads of money into all that marketing you seem to think is important.

I mean damn man, you are a marketer's wet dream.

I suppose the suits I've had made by my tailor are pieces of shit because it's not some fused garbage with "Ralph Lauren" sewn on the label?

**davewindsor** · October-10-13, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Its a "counterfeit" if they slap a "Guuci" label or "Folex" on it. They aren't. They're saying they can get high quality, bespoke for a lower price by NOT dumping truckloads of money into all that marketing you seem to think is important.

I mean damn man, you are a marketer's wet dream.

I suppose the suits I've had made by my tailor are pieces of shit because it's not some fused garbage with "Ralph Lauren" sewn on the label?

Not at all. I'll repeat, they are copying Gucci's "process" and saying they are on par with Gucci and because their prices are lower than Gucci they are the better deal than Gucci. My issue is them saying they are on par with Gucci. They are not. And if they say they are, they are basically selling a counterfeit product. Why not be genuine? They should do their own thing and not even bring up the comparison to Gucci.

BTW - I never said stuff made by your tailor are pieces of shit because I've never seen them. I have a mixed variety of clothes. I buy Hanes undershirts from Walmart that cost me two bucks a piece. I have different threads for different occasions.

**dtowncitylover** · October-10-13, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Not at all. I'll repeat, they are copying Gucci's "process" and saying they are on par with Gucci and because their prices are lower than Gucci they are the better deal than Gucci. My issue is them saying they are on par with Gucci. They are not. And if they say they are, they are basically selling a counterfeit product. Why not be genuine? They should do their own thing and not even bring up the comparison to Gucci.

BTW - I never said stuff made by your tailor are pieces of shit because I've never seen them. I have a mixed variety of clothes. I buy Hanes undershirts from Walmart that cost me two bucks a piece. I have different threads for different occasions.

You're overreaction to this is pretty comical to say the least. These guys were complemented on their suits which they made for the one guy's wedding. That is something very rare these day, by the way. They saw this opportunity and are taking it further. I don't understand your malice to them.

**motz** · October-10-13, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

No accidents. I guess not all your birthday wishes come true.

Really looks like someone peed in your cheerios this morning. Please also understand that Ralph Lauren has several different lines of expensive, mediocre suits and several of them are mass manufactured in various shitholes. You obviously don't have much experience in fashion because if you did, you would know that the major brands seem to be propped up by people that think class comes with an expensive suit.

**bailey** · October-10-13, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Not at all. I'll repeat, they are copying Gucci's "process" and saying they are on par with Gucci and because their prices are lower than Gucci they are the better deal than Gucci. My issue is them saying they are on par with Gucci. They are not.

How can you make that statement without seeing a suit? I would say they far outdo "RALPH LAUREN" by RL or anything off the rack/mass produced just by being bespoke.

And if they say they are, they are basically selling a counterfeit product. Why not be genuine? They should do their own thing and not even bring up the comparison to Gucci.

That is just nonsense. They are defining their market. They are saying this isn't Jos A Bank or Mens Warehouse.

I really don't get your objections to any of this.

**davewindsor** · October-10-13, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by motz

Really looks like someone peed in your cheerios this morning. Please also understand that Ralph Lauren has several different lines of expensive, mediocre suits and several of them are mass manufactured in various shitholes. You obviously don't have much experience in fashion because if you did, you would know that the major brands seem to be propped up by people that think class comes with an expensive suit.

Eating peed cheerios sounds like something that makes you all cheery since it sounds like a common expression with you. I don't eat cheerios.

Wearing certain fashion lines is more about common sense and street smarts to me. There is a time and place for everything. Obviously, I'm not going to wear a Ralph Lauren shirt to a grungy bar unless I want to get shanked, even though I might to a private golf club where everyone else does. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb at a country club if you're there to mingle. You ever hear the saying, when in Rome...?

**davewindsor** · October-10-13, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

How can you make that statement without seeing a suit? I would say they far outdo "RALPH LAUREN" by RL or anything off the rack/mass produced just by being bespoke.

That is just nonsense. They are defining their market. They are saying this isn't Jos A Bank or Mens Warehouse.

I really don't get your objections to any of this.

Because they are not established.

Do you hire as a VP of a Fortune 500 company someone who just got out of high school that only has a paper route on their resume? Of course not.

**davewindsor** · October-10-13, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

You're overreaction to this is pretty comical to say the least. These guys were complemented on their suits which they made for the one guy's wedding. That is something very rare these day, by the way. They saw this opportunity and are taking it further. I don't understand your malice to them.

I still don't see how that gives them the right to say their product is on par with Gucci.

**stasu1213** · October-10-13, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

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Oh, come on, Chicago is a completely different animal. Once the city rid itself of the Cabrini Green projects, gentrification there was obvious. Cabrini Green is right next to downtown neighborhoods that just got out of a major high rise residential building spree - I'm talking high rises so tall they'd be a major part of the skyline in Detroit. And the north side of Chicago has always been nice. The projects were an anomaly, not a rule, and now the projects are largely gone.

Meanwhile, we're still tearing down our tall buildings here. Our crime rates are significantly higher. We have maybe one or two employers that can compare with the companies in downtown Chicago. We have almost no significant retail, while Chicago still has the Miracle Mile and other areas.

Only a Detroiter would compare Detroit to Chicago. I'm not saying an Apple Store is out of the question maybe 5 or 10 years from now, but you're crazy if you think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

I think that an Apple store would work especially inside a building such as the First National building or Chase Building. There are tech support businesses that had opened downtown and midtown. Why not have Apple downtown as well. Naysayers always say that this or that will not work in Detroit.Many times visionless naysayers had been proven wrong. Apple shiuld be inside s building where shoppers have to go through a secured lobby to get to it. The lobbies of t

**dtowncitylover** · October-10-13, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I still don't see how that gives them the right to say their product is on par with Gucci.

Unfortunately, I don't have full access to the article anymore but I highly doubt they actually they are on par with Gucci. They probably think they can become on par with Gucci without being Gucci or Hugo Boss or Brooks Brothers. They can make quality suits, with the material the best labels use, and be a Detroit-based company. There's all the bespoke tailors on Saville Row, many of them younger than others. They are "no-names" here but that doesn't mean they aren't on par with the international labels. They just have worked to make the moniker of "Saville Row" prestigious. Maybe that's what these guys are trying to do.

**motz** · October-10-13, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Eating peed cheerios sounds like something that makes you all cheery since it sounds like a common expression with you. I don't eat cheerios.

Wearing certain fashion lines is more about common sense and street smarts to me. There is a time and place for everything. Obviously, I'm not going to wear a Ralph Lauren shirt to a grungy bar unless I want to get shanked, even though I might to a private golf club where everyone else does. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb at a country club if you're there to mingle. You ever hear the saying, when in Rome...?

First off, I'm not the one all pissed off about this topic or the constant references to your stream of conscience regarding pee in Midtown.

Secondly, if you think you're going to get shanked for wearing a suit in a dive bar, you really need to take the leap and join us all in reality. You won't get shanked. In addition to this, "established brands" also have a tendency to become mediocre over time. Do you know where Ralph Lauren is primarily manufactured? Because it sure as shit isn't America or Italy, bucko.