Ilitch Proposes Stadium and Events Center

**Gistok** · December-08-12, 01:05 PM

southen, that's the former Film Exchange Building... Ilitch does NOT own it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_Exchange_Building

It has an interesting history whoever.... Back when the new baseball stadium was planned for west-of-Woodward, that building owner suddenly started putting new windows into his building. Once the decision was changed to east-of-Woodward to also include a Football Stadium, the work on this building suddenly stopped.

Fast forward 10 years... this building owner suddenly decided to PAINT a nice yellow brick building white... [[what a silly thing to do)... and no other work has been done on it since.

So I can forsee the city coming in and writing some tickets [[such as with the Wurlitzer Building when it was raining bricks)... for this "speculator" owner to rectify.

**Novine** · December-08-12, 09:23 PM

Maybe Geo. Jackson can divert some DDA money to demolish it. Who's getting the demo contracts these days?

**401don** · December-09-12, 01:05 PM

The new arena is going to need additional tenants. Could an Arena Football team make it downtown now? What about lacrosse? I'm always amazed that the Buffalo and Toronto lacrosse teams draw around 15,000 for their games. These teams only play a handful of games but they build NFL stadiums for 8 homes a year.

**rb336** · December-09-12, 01:52 PM

Why does it need additional tenants? Does the Palace? Does the Joe?

**southen** · December-09-12, 04:40 PM

the palace had the shock, vipers and neon at one time or another... helps the bottom line.

JVB · December-09-12, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by southen

the palace had the shock, vipers and neon at one time or another... helps the bottom line.

Not sure about the others but I know the Shock actually lost money every year, so it actually hurt the bottom line.

**southen** · December-09-12, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

Not sure about the others but I know the Shock actually lost money every year, so it actually hurt the bottom line.

the intent was to make money. if they didnt think they could they wouldnt have acquired the franchise. the reasoning stands.

JVB · December-09-12, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by southen

the intent was to make money. if they didnt think they could they wouldnt have acquired the franchise. the reasoning stands.

The NBA has actively subsidized the WNBA since it was started 15 years ago because there just isn't much interest in women's basketball. Most of the teams were owned by their NBA counterpart [[including the Shock) and the goal was to further women's basketball not to necessarily make a profit.

**Gorath** · December-09-12, 08:19 PM

I thought the whole reason for the NBA creating the WNBA was to crush a newly formed women's league [[the ABL) that played during the same months as the men. Not that I think that women's sports can compete with men's sports, but the NBA sure seemed to be threatened by it at the time. I'm just surprised that the NBA has keep the WNBA around as long as it has.

**Detroit** · December-09-12, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Mike Ilitch and family are worth close to $3 billion. They don't need a cent in public dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/michael-ilitch/

I love how everyone pretends that just because someone is "worth" a certain dollar amount, they must have that amount of money sitting around and available.

**Honky Tonk** · December-09-12, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit

I love how everyone pretends that just because someone is "worth" a certain dollar amount, they must have that amount of money sitting around and available.

Exactly. That's why they sent a messenger to Lansing to plead their case.

**Novine** · December-10-12, 12:17 AM

"I love how everyone pretends that just because someone is "worth" a certain dollar amount, they must have that amount of money sitting around and available."

No one pretended any such thing. If the guys worth $3 billion, it means he has assets that he can utilize to get the financing for his empire building. How he does that is up to him but it's not up to taxpayers to subsidize directly or indirectly his private development.

**Gistok** · December-10-12, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"I love how everyone pretends that just because someone is "worth" a certain dollar amount, they must have that amount of money sitting around and available."

No one pretended any such thing. If the guys worth $3 billion, it means he has assets that he can utilize to get the financing for his empire building. How he does that is up to him but it's not up to taxpayers to subsidize directly or indirectly his private development.

What you're saying is true... but definitely nothing new...

The city/state has been helping out for decades...
1) GM - Poletown
2) Chrysler-Jefferson Ave
3) Davidsion - Auburn Hills [[M-24/I-75 improvements and interchange expansion)
5) Gerald Hines - One Detroit Center
6) John Madden - 150 West Jefferson
7) Millender Center
8) Ilitch - Comerica Park
9) Ford - Ford Field
10) Compuware - HQ
11) Gilbert - Tax Incentives

So what you say is nothing new here.... more than likely there'll be more hotel-liquor-car rental, gas/oil leases and state strategic fund... funding sources to cover part of the costs.... same as it ever was....

**southen** · December-10-12, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by JVB

The NBA has actively subsidized the WNBA since it was started 15 years ago because there just isn't much interest in women's basketball. Most of the teams were owned by their NBA counterpart [[including the Shock) and the goal was to further women's basketball not to necessarily make a profit.

im sorry but they wouldnt invest the money they did if they didnt expect a return on their investment. if they wanted to further women's basketball they could have donated to youth programs, not create an entire league. women's college basketball had grown in popularity and they figured they could cash in on that. they were wrong, but lets be honest that their goal was another revenue stream. when we have lockouts on a regular basis because owners are demanding more profit do you really think they would be so charitable as to create an entire league just to further a sport and not care about profit?

**antongast** · December-10-12, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

What you're saying is true... but definitely nothing new...

The city/state has been helping out for decades...
1) GM - Poletown
2) Chrysler-Jefferson Ave
3) Davidsion - Auburn Hills [[M-24/I-75 improvements and interchange expansion)
5) Gerald Hines - One Detroit Center
6) John Madden - 150 West Jefferson
7) Millender Center
8) Ilitch - Comerica Park
9) Ford - Ford Field
10) Compuware - HQ
11) Gilbert - Tax Incentives

So what you say is nothing new here.... more than likely there'll be more hotel-liquor-car rental, gas/oil leases and state strategic fund... funding sources to cover part of the costs.... same as it ever was....

You call it "helping out," I call it "getting scammed." And we never, ever, ever learn.

**Gistok** · December-10-12, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

You call it "helping out," I call it "getting scammed." And we never, ever, ever learn.

It seems to be "the American way"... whether it's other states luring plants and industry... cities across the country paying for stadiums and arenas... tax incentives for the movie industry... or Renaissance Zones so some people get tax relief.

No one said it was fair... just that it happens all the time all over the nation...

JVB · December-10-12, 03:54 PM

So it turns out that despite all of the rabid cries of "hundreds of millions of tax dollars" being given to help build the arena, it's actually only $13 million [[about half of what the DIA will now get in tax subsidies each year). And the $13 million isn't for the arena, but rather city infrastructure to support the arena. Mr Illitch is putting up $637 million and he just wants the city to take care of some street repairs, sewage and and other infrastructural needs which is precisely what the DDA is designed to do.

I don't support tax money being used to subsidies private businesses [[like A123 systems, Solyndra etc), but making sure the proper infrastructure is available to facilitate improvements is different. If the Freep article is accurate, I actually support the plan now.

**bailey** · December-10-12, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

So it turns out that despite all of the rabid cries of "hundreds of millions of tax dollars" being given to help build the arena, it's actually only $13 million [[about half of what the DIA will now get in tax subsidies each year). And the $13 million isn't for the arena, but rather city infrastructure to support the arena. Mr Illitch is putting up $637 million and he just wants the city to take care of some street repairs, sewage and and other infrastructural needs which is precisely what the DDA is designed to do.

I don't support tax money being used to subsidies private businesses [[like A123 systems, Solyndra etc), but making sure the proper infrastructure is available to facilitate improvements is different. If the Freep article is accurate, I actually support the plan now.

The article is accurate, your reading of it is not. It's 12.8 million a YEAR. not a one time grant for some new streetlights and sewer lines.

On Wednesday, the state Senate approved a bill allowing Ilitch to tap up to $12.8 million each year in money from the Downtown Development Authority. It now goes to the Michigan House.
...

The $12.8 million comes from school taxes collected by the Downtown Development Authority. This revenue stream, which could vary each year depending on the economy, would help fund and retire bonds that would be used to finance construction of the Ilitch project.

And unlike the DIA millage dollars you dislike, this money is actually taken away from DPS.

This source of revenue caused controversy Wednesday when the Senate approved the legislation in a 27-11 vote over vehement objections from Senate Minority Leader Gretchen Whitmer, D-East Lansing. She said the project robs $12.8 million that otherwise would go to the Detroit Public Schools.

"For the first time in nearly two decades, the property taxes in Detroit were finally going to the right place, the schools," Whitmer said. "Now they're swooping in on school taxes to help pay for a hockey arena in Detroit."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Ega9yG00

So, basically its exactly the subsidy you claim to dislike; public dollars that are earmarked for a public good being diverted to subsidize private risk.

JVB · December-10-12, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

And unlike the DIA millage dollars you dislike, this money is actually taken away from DPS.

I don't support any money being taken away from DPS, but I'm not sure if your understanding of that is correct.

**Gistok** · December-10-12, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

So, basically its exactly the subsidy you claim to dislike; public dollars that are earmarked for a public good being diverted to subsidize private risk.

It all depends on your defiinition of "public good", versus "public risk"....

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...schools_o.html

**Novine** · December-10-12, 10:05 PM

"I don't support any money being taken away from DPS, but I'm not sure if your understanding of that is correct."

Bailey has it exactly right. Ilitch hasn't disclosed how much public money he wants to suck into his venture. You can bet the state legislature didn't change the law for a one-time payment of $12.8 million. That will be a continuous stream of taxpayer subsidies to Ilitch.

JVB · December-10-12, 10:13 PM

They are not taking $12.8 million per year from DPS and giving it to Illitch. Trying to characterize it like they're raiding the school fund to give Illitch a check makes your argument look weak.

**Novine** · December-10-12, 10:20 PM

It's a subsidy for Ilitch's project. That generally doesn't happen in the suburbs. Developers pay for their own infrastructure because they are the ones profiting from the development. Why should Ilitch be any different? Why should money intended for the schools instead go to subsidize Ilitch's project?

JVB · December-10-12, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Why should money intended for the schools instead go to subsidize Ilitch's project?

Um...it's not.

**Gistok** · December-10-12, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by JVB

They are not taking $12.8 million per year from DPS and giving it to Illitch. Trying to characterize it like they're raiding the school fund to give Illitch a check makes your argument look weak.

I'm not quite sure on this... but isn't this capturing additional "growth" tax revenues, like with a TIFA?....

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index....ng_author.html