Red Wings to play temporarily at the Palace?...

**thefishwrap** · June-29-09, 08:03 AM

I would guess that the Red Wings are doing their due diligence and inquired about this set up in case things fall through with the renewal lease negotiations. Plus, it's another cap in their feather during negotiations -- if Detroit hesitates on the giving them a 3-5 lease, they can show a preliminary agreement between Palace Entertainment and them. No way would Detroit let them walk.

**R8RBOB** · June-29-09, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Al Publican

A former front office employee of the Pistons told me that the Red Wings may announce soon that they will play up to three seasons at The Palace of Auburn Hills while a new hockey arena is being constructed in downtown Detroit. This would facilitate the expansion of Cobo Hall and mean the razing of Joe Louis before long.

There was another issue that sounded iffy with said source, that the Pistons would eventually move to downtown Detroit and maintain the The Palace for more open entertainment date uses. My source said if things worked out right that the Pistons might even build their own arena downtown.

The Wings playing at The Palace sounds feasible, but two new arenas downtown not so much to me.

Lawd, have mercy. This doesn't make sense. First off, the city is no way ready to knock down JLA even for Cobo. I'm sure in the future the city would want to reclaim the property the Joe is sitting on but not now. There would be no need for the Wings to temporary relocate to Auburn Hills while a new arena is built. The city would wait six months after the new arena is opened before the wrecking ball hits the walls. Now, if the city and Wings decided to renovate Joe Louis then I could understand a move to AH temporary but not to build a new arena.

As for the Pistons coming back to downtown, well two things. The Palace is 20 years old. In ten years, it will be facing Joe Louis status and perhaps the same argument will be used in regards to the age of the Palace. Also, a new arena in downtown Detroit will seriously hurt the Palace in regards to draw shows. Don't believe me??? Two words: Pontiac Silverdome

Second, the Pistons may and I say may be heading to another "Teal era." Everyone remembers back in the 90's when the Pistons had to give away tickets because no one was going to the Palace. A new arena in Detroit and a possible bad Pistons team would hurt the Palace money wise and the Pistons is still a business.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-29-09, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

The Red Wings have ALWAYS played their home games in Detroit.

The Pistons actually played in Detroit for little more than a decade.

Not true on both accounts. Between Cobo and JLA games, the Pistons have logged far more than 10 years in the City.

Before the barn on Grand River was built the Wings played in the barn in Windsor Ontario and did not wear away jerseys.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-29-09, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

As for the Pistons coming back to downtown, well two things. The Palace is 20 years old. In ten years, it will be facing Joe Louis status and perhaps the same argument will be used in regards to the age of the Palace. Also, a new arena in downtown Detroit will seriously hurt the Palace in regards to draw shows. Don't believe me??? Two words: Pontiac Silverdome

I can't see that happening. The Palace organization has always been very agressive in doing what needs to be done to the facilitiy. It is very different now than it was when they opened it. Joe Louis? Not so much. This is because the Palace organization owns the building outright and does not have to deal with a complicated tennant landlord arrangement that most other sports teams have set-up for short term return on investment.

**R8RBOB** · June-29-09, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I can't see that happening. The Palace organization has always been very agressive in doing what needs to be done to the facilitiy. It is very different now than it was when they opened it. Joe Louis? Not so much. This is because the Palace organization owns the building outright and does not have to deal with a complicated tennant landlord arrangement that most other sports teams have set-up for short term return on investment.

To be technical: The Detroit Pistons is a tennant of Palace Sports and Entertainment which controls the Palace of Auburn Hills. Just because they were owned by the same person [[the late Bill Davidson) don't mean that they had a hand shake agreement. For legal purposes, the Pistons would had to sign an agreement [[let's call it a lease) to play at the Palace since they too are a business.

As for the Palace, I admit they had the advantage over JLA since Joe Louis was built on the cheap but a new arena in downtown Detroit would sway the favor towards Detroit.

**Novine** · June-29-09, 09:45 AM

Didn't the Palace just complete a major addition to the building? It doesn't sound like it's heading to JLA status.

"Also, a new arena in downtown Detroit will seriously hurt the Palace in regards to draw shows. Don't believe me??? Two words: Pontiac Silverdome."

Apples and oranges. The market for shows that the Silverdome can draw is minuscule compared to the Palace. The Palace is also located to draw on a huge suburban audience who, for whatever reasons, will be less inclined to make the trek downtown for a show when the Palace is much closer.

**R8RBOB** · June-29-09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Didn't the Palace just complete a major addition to the building? It doesn't sound like it's heading to JLA status.

Read my comment again. I said 10 years from now.

"Also, a new arena in downtown Detroit will seriously hurt the Palace in regards to draw shows. Don't believe me??? Two words: Pontiac Silverdome."

Apples and oranges. The market for shows that the Silverdome can draw is minuscule compared to the Palace. The Palace is also located to draw on a huge suburban audience who, for whatever reasons, will be less inclined to make the trek downtown for a show when the Palace is much closer.

I used the Pontiac Silverdome as an example because the city of Pontiac could have still competed for the shows other than the Lions that are choosing Ford Field. Just because the Lions left did not mean they should close shop but they did because Pontiac knew they could not compete head to head against Detroit's Ford Field.

As for the Palace, well only time will tell but in reference to your suburban audience shout-out here is a question. It is a "what if"

What if, there was a brand new arena in Detroit and let's say that Miley Cyrus decided to skip the Palace and instead played at the new arena. Would those same "suburban audiences" decide to skip the concert in Detroit because she is not playing at the Palace?

**iheartthed** · June-29-09, 10:23 AM

Madison Square Garden also hosts both the Knicks and the Rangers [[as well as the Liberty -- WNBA, and the Titans -- pro lacrosse).

And both the New York Giants and New York Jets play at Giants stadium in Rutherford, NJ.

So it's not unusual at all to have teams with overlapping seasons share a single structure.

crawford · June-29-09, 10:36 AM

This rumor sounds absolutely ridiculous. It makes no sense on so many levels.

If two arenas are too much, why would three arenas make sense?

None of the Cobo plans involve demolition of Joe Louis. This "front-office" guy knows something that the MI legislators funding the Cobo renovation don't know?

The Palace is among the most profitable venues in the U.S. Why exactly would the Pistons mess with that?

How can the Wings make an agreement to play at the Palace when they have not secured funding for a supposed downtown replacement?

**rjk** · June-29-09, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

As for the Palace, I admit they had the advantage over JLA since Joe Louis was built on the cheap but a new arena in downtown Detroit would sway the favor towards Detroit.

It all depends on how much money will be spent on this new arena.

The Palace is twenty years old in words only. That arena was way ahead of it's time when it was built and has been the prototype for just about every arena built since then. Plus they've made many improvements and I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to make more improvements if need be.
Even with a new arena I wouldn't bet against Palace Sports and Entertainment.

**jita1** · June-29-09, 11:09 AM

Interesting stuff.

I think that would mean the Palace becoming another Silverdome. I don't think Auburn Hills would let that happen.

On the other hand, downtown Detroit would be bursting at the seams if it had all of the Detroit sports teams there. I saw how it was with the fireworks and Tigers game on the same night. It was bananas down there. More people, more revenue for the city.

**R8RBOB** · June-29-09, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by rjk

It all depends on how much money will be spent on this new arena.

The Palace is twenty years old in words only. That arena was way ahead of it's time when it was built and has been the prototype for just about every arena built since then. Plus they've made many improvements and I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to make more improvements if need be.
Even with a new arena I wouldn't bet against Palace Sports and Entertainment.

Hey, I am not trying to knock the Palace. Other than tight seats and overrated drinks, it is a cool place to watch a game. My point is that the Palace has the ups on Joe Louis Arena because it is nine years younger and Davidson spent some change to doll it up. Joe Louis Arena was built for one purpose: to keep the Wings in Detroit. High-priced luxury suites and season-ticket only bars weren't on the minds of city leaders during the building of JLA. If Detroit or Iltich builds an arena on the level of Staples Center, American Airlines Arena, the United Center or Pepsi Center then the Palace would have a fight for the shows that comes to SE Michigan.

crawford · June-29-09, 11:45 AM

The Palace has nothing to do with the Silverdome.

The Silverdome is a white elephant because it's a massive dome, not a conventional arena. These megadomes almost never make any financial sense, and are only for NFL teams and the occasional Superbowl/Final Four.

**smogboy** · June-29-09, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Other than tight seats and overrated drinks...

That could be said for nearly EVERY sports arena.

**davewindsor** · June-29-09, 11:58 AM

I'm new to this area, but why did the original Olympia Stadium in downtown get demo'd years ago? I saw one of those old Wayne State videos and it looked pretty impressive. Do arenas and stadiums just have really short lifespans, was it too small or what was the deal with that?

**Novine** · June-29-09, 12:10 PM

'What if, there was a brand new arena in Detroit and let's say that Miley Cyrus decided to skip the Palace and instead played at the new arena. Would those same "suburban audiences" decide to skip the concert in Detroit because she is not playing at the Palace?'

Some of them would. I wouldn't agree with their reasons for doing so but enough people post here and on the various newspaper blogs to see that suburban fear-mongering of Detroit is alive and well.

**smogboy** · June-29-09, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I'm new to this area, but why did the original Olympia Stadium in downtown get demo'd years ago? I saw one of those old Wayne State videos and it looked pretty impressive. Do arenas and stadiums just have really short lifespans, was it too small or what was the deal with that?

From what I could tell it just seems as though a lot of owners of older arenas just complain about how there aren't enough luxury suites in their facilities to be "competitive" and I also think that no one wants to be labeled as the "oldest arena in the [[insert league here)". All of these facilities are more than functional. It seems like the owners like the new building buzz, the nicer amenities, larger capacity, and a new source of revenue- but beyond that, I really don't understand the short life span of these arenas either.

And what a lot of these new fangled all-purpose arenas fail to capture is that old school feel. Beyond baseball stadiums such as Camden Yards, and even to a certain degree Comerica Park, they really don't harken back to a nostalgic feel that I think a lot of fans crave. Maybe there isn't the in-depth architectural history involved with some of these places, but for those of us old enough to remember going to the Olympia, Madison Square Gardens, the Montreal Forum, Chicago Stadium, Briggs and others- there really isn't anything around like them any more.

**Patrick** · June-29-09, 12:25 PM

However, I can see the Piston's moving back downtown in a new or shared arena now that the family has more control.

How and why? The Palace is one of the finest sports facilities in the nation. Not gonna happen.

**GPCharles** · June-29-09, 03:43 PM

If you build it, they might not come!

NY Times article on glut of arenas in the NYC area.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/ny...renas.html?hpw

**Hypestyles** · June-29-09, 04:05 PM

what is the Pistons lease with the Palace? my general guess is it would take 10+ years of miserable seasons before ownership would remotely consider it.. too much money being made in auburn hills.. added risk of alienating individual season ticket holders and bigwig corporate types who buy tickets in bulk..

Redwings @ the palace? heh.. curious.. if this ends up with a proposal to for a new stadium in the city limits, or to renovate JLA, I hope that there is a sensible detroit city council elected by then..

**R8RBOB** · June-29-09, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

what is the Pistons lease with the Palace? my general guess is it would take 10+ years of miserable seasons before ownership would remotely consider it.. too much money being made in auburn hills.. added risk of alienating individual season ticket holders and bigwig corporate types who buy tickets in bulk..

Redwings @ the palace? heh.. curious.. if this ends up with a proposal to for a new stadium in the city limits, or to renovate JLA, I hope that there is a sensible detroit city council elected by then..

The Pistons aren't leaving Auburn Hills..........unless Mrs. Davidson wakes up one day and say that she is not an NBA owner-type and decides to sell the team and Palace Sports and Entertainment. No way you would leave a home.......unless the cost to maintain that home is too costly to stay.

If the Red Wings goes to the Palace even temporary I would be shocked. The city of Detroit would suggest what the NHL have done for the last two years on January 1st. Put an ice rink in a stadium. Crude, but if you play basketball in a football stadium, why not hockey if only for a couple of years.

**Novine** · June-29-09, 04:58 PM

"what is the Pistons lease with the Palace? my general guess is it would take 10+ years of miserable seasons before ownership would remotely consider it"

You do realize that the Pistons and Palace are owned by the same people?

**Novine** · June-29-09, 05:06 PM

Who is "Al Publican" anyways? Our pal Al swoops in here never having posted before, drops this bombshell, leaves one comment and then disappears. Over at Crain's, Bill Shea references the comments from DY in his article, all generated by "Al". An Ilitch plant? Friend of Shea's? What's up with the drive-by commentary?

**R8RBOB** · June-29-09, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"what is the Pistons lease with the Palace? my general guess is it would take 10+ years of miserable seasons before ownership would remotely consider it"

You do realize that the Pistons and Palace are owned by the same people?

You do realize that though the Pistons and the Palace are owned by the same people they're two separate entities and for legal purposes there has to be a contract between the Detroit Pistons Basketball Co. and Palace Sports and Entertainment for the basketball team to play in the facility controlled by PS&E. They would have an agreement that might say that they will play at the Palace for $1.00 a year.

croweblack · June-29-09, 05:40 PM

[quote=DetroitDad;38624]Money talks and capitalism is just a game. Both parties stand to profit from a single shared arena. As it stands, I believe Joe Louis operates at a loss, and The Palace, while profitable and superior to The Joe, does not live up to it's potential because of some loss of business to Joe Louis Arena. Beyond that, it's obvious that maintaining one facility for twice the sporting event income would make a lot of sense.

I hope you are trying to get quoted at that Chocolate sauce website because if you are not.... man "some loss of business to JLA" what business?

1 American idol show and maybe a dog show?

if you were drunk or high when you wrote that--that's fine.