Pistons dwindling attendance renews calls for team to move downtown.

**dmike76** · November-29-12, 02:58 PM

Shollin, the fact that its privately funded is the only reason that I'm ok with it being out there. Davidson was a class act and built that place the right way, just not in the right place. It's too far from the western and southern suburbs and I think that's a problem. Yes, they fill up when they're good out in AH, but if they were closer I think it would help with the current problem. People aren't going to drive out to the boonies to watch a bad team [[yes, to me Auburn Hills is the boonies).

**dmike76** · November-29-12, 03:04 PM

Shollin, the reason I'm ok with the Palace is that it was privately funded. Davidson was a class act and he built that place right, just not in the right location. Obviously a good product draws fans like they did in 2004-2007, but I think that people aren't willing to drive out to the boonies to see a bad team. It's too far away from the western and southern suburbs, and that's a problem.

**Zacha341** · November-29-12, 03:09 PM

And some prime theater at the Riviara!

Originally Posted by mtburb

And while we're at it, let's move the Tigers and Lions back to Tiger Stadium.

**gameguy56** · November-29-12, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

It's too far away from the western and southern suburbs, and that's a problem.

Amen. Being 45-60 minutes away from Grosse Pointers or people in Canton or Plymouth probably cuts away a decent amount of people who would casually go to pistons games.

Shollin · November-29-12, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

Shollin, the fact that its privately funded is the only reason that I'm ok with it being out there. Davidson was a class act and built that place the right way, just not in the right place. It's too far from the western and southern suburbs and I think that's a problem. Yes, they fill up when they're good out in AH, but if they were closer I think it would help with the current problem. People aren't going to drive out to the boonies to watch a bad team [[yes, to me Auburn Hills is the boonies).

In the late 80's it was mostly undeveloped land and the aquisition costs were minimal. It would've been much more expensive to privately finance it in Detroit. That's why it was built in Auburn Hills and has been very successful

**stasu1213** · November-29-12, 03:53 PM

Maybe the Pistons should have a couple of pop up games in Ford Field. Pop up games are games that are played in Ford Field instead of the Palace. Gores could pay the rent but keep the sales from the tickets. This would just be temporal and not permanent

**Motor City Sam** · November-29-12, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Maybe the Pistons should have a couple of pop up games in Ford Field. Pop up games are games that are played in Ford Field instead of the Palace. Gores could pay the rent but keep the sales from the tickets. This would just be temporal and not permanent

I doubt that would happen, but I love that idea. I'd definitely go.

**Lowell** · November-29-12, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Maybe the Pistons should have a couple of pop up games in Ford Field. Pop up games are games that are played in Ford Field instead of the Palace. Gores could pay the rent but keep the sales from the tickets. This would just be temporal and not permanent

Not a bad idea. JLA might be a better fit, especially as it is sitting empty.

As for boonies I believe the metro population center [half the population north and south, east and west] is around 10 mile and Telegraph, so Auburn Hills is definitely on the fringe. That doesn't take into account Windsor/Essex which would probably move it to 8 Mile and Evergreen.

Shollin · November-29-12, 04:46 PM

Why the hell would the Pistons move to Joe Louis? They own a nice beatiful building but would rent a dump like JLA?

**DetroitPlanner** · November-29-12, 09:54 PM

And build a Stadium for U of D's football team!

**mwilbert** · November-29-12, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Why the hell would the Pistons move to Joe Louis? They own a nice beatiful building but would rent a dump like JLA?

I don't think the idea was that they would move; I think the idea is that they would play a few games in a different venue where they could potentially draw from a different audience, and hopefully fill some additional seats. Various teams have done this in the past, although as I recall it they usuall play in a venue that is further away--some Boston teams used to play some home games in Hartford, for instance.

**Det_ard** · November-29-12, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Not a bad idea. JLA might be a better fit, especially as it is sitting empty.

As for boonies I believe the metro population center [half the population north and south, east and west] is around 10 mile and Telegraph, so Auburn Hills is definitely on the fringe. That doesn't take into account Windsor/Essex which would probably move it to 8 Mile and Evergreen.

Plug it into Google Maps and you'll find that from 10/Telegraph to the Palace is 19.1 miles, from 10/Telegraph to Joe Louis is 18.9 miles. That's basically even. According to google's drive time estimates the trips are within a few minutes of being identical. If Auburn Hills is "the fringe" based on a population center at 10/Telegraph, so is downtown Detroit. It would be more centrally located in Southfield.

**KJ5** · November-29-12, 11:45 PM

How bout them Derby Girls?

**Bham1982** · November-30-12, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

If Auburn Hills is "the fringe" based on a population center at 10/Telegraph, so is downtown Detroit. It would be more centrally located in Southfield.

Downtown Detroit is quite convenient, considering most of the freeways end up around there, but it is kinda on the fringe of the area in a geographic sense. Excepting the Pointes, it isn't close to really any significant concentrations of middle or upper class wealth, and excepting Dearborn, it isn't really close to any of the regional business or retail centers.

**EastsideAl** · November-30-12, 01:31 PM

I love basketball, and grew up taking the bus down to Pistons games at Cobo [[loved those $1.75 student seats in the upper deck with Gus). I've been out to the Palace a few times when the Pistons were good - including a memorable night at the 2004 Finals - but it was a very real hassle to get all that way out there. Even worse than when they played at the dreaded Silverdome, and back then I really thought there was no way they could move even further out.

If the Pistons were somewhere more centrally located, I still would probably go to several games a year even though the team is terrible, if only to see the NBA's big stars in action. And I think a lot of other basketball fans I know around here would do the same. But I'm not going to drive all the way out to Auburn Nowhereland to pay a lot of money to watch a bad team. Then have to drive all the way back, and get home just before midnight.

It has always struck me as more than a little strange that the Pistons play so far away from the heart of NBA basketball fandom in the Detroit area - out in what is essentially hockey country. While the Red Wings play downtown surrounded by a population [[save for the Windsor area) that is much more likely to be interested in the NBA than the NHL. So, I think it would be great for all involved if the Pistons could move downtown or to somewhere more centrally located. But, as many people have said, given that ownership of the team goes hand-in-hand with ownership of the Palace and all of its revenue streams, that just ain't going to happen any time soon. A real shame for Detroit area basketball fans.

**Bham1982** · November-30-12, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

It has always struck me as more than a little strange that the Pistons play so far away from the heart of NBA basketball fandom in the Detroit area - out in what is essentially hockey country.

Why would you assume that Central Oakland County is hockey country?

Anecdotally, I can say the area is far more oriented towards basketball than hockey.

For one, the NBA has always drawn more of a white collar and corporate audience than the NHL, and the Palace sits smack-dab in the most white collar and corporate part of the state.

For another, basketball is more of a global sport, while hockey is more regional, and the Palace sits smack-dab in the least "local" part of the region [[tons of expats and the like, and fewer native Michiganders).

Also, the area is heavily Jewish, and Jews have always had an affinity towards basketball and not towards the NHL. The more prosperous black population is now in NW Detroit and Southern Oakland, equidistant from downtown and the Palace. NHL has always been stronger Downriver, in Canada, and in more local, white ethnic parts of the region.

**401don** · November-30-12, 01:50 PM

Eastside, I agree with most of what you're saying except for the part about paying a lot of money. Up until this yr. that was the case, but if you have any interest in basketball now is the time. I just picked up lower corner seats, row j, for 11 bucks. So pick a couple of games and go see the world's best athletes. [[Unless of course you pick the Spurs and they leave their best 4 at home like they did last night in Miami.)

**EastsideAl** · November-30-12, 02:22 PM

Well, perhaps my evidence is overly anecdotal, but when I was growing up in the part of the east side where I still am today I knew plenty of NBA fans and basketball was a game that everyone played. Many people went down to Cobo when good teams came in and they had the money. Almost no one I knew had ever set foot in Olympia [[which was also widely seen as a place where non-white people were not welcome), and never watched hockey on TV. Those of us who were also hockey fans were few and far between, and even rarer were actual hockey players.

When I played youth hockey though, many of the teams we played were from Oakland County, including teams from the Auburn Hills and Rochester area. The kids I knew from out there were much much more into the Red Wings than the Pistons, and many of them had families who were regular attendees at Olympia. Not many of them had ever been to a Pistons game, and even fewer went with any regularity. Although you are correct that the only other white people I knew from out there with any serious interest in basketball were Jewish.

Of course, this was also back in the '70s, so as an increasingly old guy I'm willing to entertain the notion that things may have changed a bit since then.

**Det_ard** · November-30-12, 03:23 PM

I think what's really changed is who goes [[and can afford to go) to the games. It used to be sports fans, with some business entertaining going on. Now it's primarily business wining and dining given the prices of tickets and suites. Joe average fan has gotten priced out. So the Pistons attendees aren't so much their basketball fan base as their corporate expense account folks taking clients out for a little schmoozing. You also see a lot of younger people [[late teens/college age) who are probably using dad's company tickets.

If the corporate exec or upper management folks are the target market, that's your northern and northwestern suburban crowd.

Shollin · November-30-12, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

I think what's really changed is who goes [[and can afford to go) to the games. It used to be sports fans, with some business entertaining going on. Now it's primarily business wining and dining given the prices of tickets and suites. Joe average fan has gotten priced out. So the Pistons attendees aren't so much their basketball fan base as their corporate expense account folks taking clients out for a little schmoozing. You also see a lot of younger people [[late teens/college age) who are probably using dad's company tickets.

If the corporate exec or upper management folks are the target market, that's your northern and northwestern suburban crowd.

Their almost giving away tickets to Piston games.

**Hypestyles** · November-30-12, 04:52 PM

Before the team was finally sold to Gores, ironically, Sharp was among those saying that it would be [[in so many words) idiotic for Mike Ilitch to buy the team with the presumed intent of bringing them downtown for a shared stadium. Curious...

**Gistok** · November-30-12, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

Before the team was finally sold to Gores, ironically, Sharp was among those saying that it would be [[in so many words) idiotic for Mike Ilitch to buy the team with the presumed intent of bringing them downtown for a shared stadium. Curious...

That's probably because Karen Davidson was selling the arena WITH the team. And Mike likely wouldn't have a use for the arena.

Also, I think all the reasoning why the Palace is a better location than downtown... is a bunch of houey... Football, Baseball, and especially the Detroit Symphony and Detroit Opera House are all heavily attended by Oakland County folks who bring their clients/families/friends downtown... so how is basketball any different? The fact that they have a superior facility in Auburn Hills is the sole reason that it makes more sense to stay there...

If they had a winning team, folks would be just as likely to go downtown to a new arena, as Auburn Hills.

**jtf1972** · November-30-12, 06:20 PM

I have no desire to get in my car and drive 45 minutes to see a basketball game. The ticket cost is actually minor compared to gas & parking. It's not even a team that seems to have anything to do with Detroit other than sharing a name.

**SMRJim** · November-30-12, 06:42 PM

While it's true that they had good attendance for years because they also had good teams, I think that in the 'lean' years' they would do better if they played closer to the city. I do not feel the slightest bit inclined to drive to Auburn Hills for a basketball game, even if I had free tickets, but I might if they played downtown. Official attendance figures might show decent attendance, but as Sharp pointed out the number of people acutally attending is WAY down. I think some of those people who are choosing not to use their tickets might use them if the stadium were closer to the city [[assuming they don't all live in the northern suburbs). Just my opinion. Revenue doesn't just come just from ticket sales, the number of people actually there dictates extra cash flow [[parking, concessions, shirts and hats, etc.).

**gthomas** · November-30-12, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

I have no desire to get in my car and drive 45 minutes to see a basketball game. The ticket cost is actually minor compared to gas & parking. It's not even a team that seems to have anything to do with Detroit other than sharing a name.

Yes, I second this!! It deserves to be downtown with the rest of our teams, it just make sense. Ford Field is more attractive than being in Pontiac, there's things to do after and before games.