Key State Senator Calls Detroit Government Dysfunctional and Blatantly Stupid

**coracle** · December-01-12, 11:09 AM

I thought your first idea "...to amalgamate the city of Detroit with the suburbs" was scarey enough on a number of levels Danny but "Crazy folks have to leave first, then you all can fix Detroit and put it back the way it was". is way over the top. We don't want your crazy folks moving into our neighborhoods; we've got enough of our own; and they would have to go somewhere. Instead of exporting the misery - deal with it.

**Danny** · December-01-12, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

I thought your first idea "...to amalgamate the city of Detroit with the suburbs" was scarey enough on a number of levels Danny but "Crazy folks have to leave first, then you all can fix Detroit and put it back the way it was". is way over the top. We don't want your crazy folks moving into our neighborhoods; we've got enough of our own; and they would have to go somewhere. Instead of exporting the misery - deal with it.

If crazy folks in Detroit ghettoes can't change, the will have to go. If crazy folks in Detroit decided to change for themselves. They will take part to rebel against crazy folks who brought the murder, madness and mayhem into their once beautiful areas. Once way or another they all better work and earn their snack or get out.

My family did that to me and so did my brothers, sisters, cousins aunts, uncles and even grandmas and grandpas.

**corktownyuppie** · December-01-12, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

If crazy folks in Detroit ghettoes can't change, the will have to go. If crazy folks in Detroit decided to change for themselves. They will take part to rebel against crazy folks who brought the murder, madness and mayhem into their once beautiful areas. Once way or another they all better work and earn their snack or get out.

My family did that to me and so did my brothers, sisters, cousins aunts, uncles and even grandmas and grandpas.

This is going to require a major shift in our mentality and in politics. Right now the prevailing thinking is, "The enemy is out there." We need to change the mentality to "The enemy is in here."

So who can run for Mayor and win with a "I've seen the enemy, and it is us" campaign?

**Wesley Mouch** · December-01-12, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

This is going to require a major shift in our mentality and in politics. Right now the prevailing thinking is, "The enemy is out there." We need to change the mentality to "The enemy is in here."

So who can run for Mayor and win with a "I've seen the enemy, and it is us" campaign?

I would expect the churches to lead here. Why are urban churches invisible in social action? Or am I missing their activism, beyond the Jesse Jackson blame outsider type -- which seems to be the problem. Am I wrong to be disappointed?

**De'troiter** · December-01-12, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I would expect the churches to lead here. Why are urban churches invisible in social action? Or am I missing their activism, beyond the Jesse Jackson blame outsider type -- which seems to be the problem. Am I wrong to be disappointed?

12noon Sunday is the most segregated hour in America. You should really visit some of the Black, I mean "Urban" Churches that you are judging to see if you are off base or not. You probably will be surprised about the positivity in the messages of self-help and self-determination.

I've have been attending Black Churches [[or Urban Churches as you call them) all of my life and I have yet to hear a preacher tell his congregration to blame the outsider or White man or anyone else except for SATAN! The message, that I have received from these "Urban Churches" has been "Put your trust in no man, not even yourself, only GOD." Most "Urban Churches" will flat out tell you that the Government, The White Man and The Black Man will not rescue you, so you better rescue yourself with the help of GOD.

Despite what EVIL conspiracies [[to overturn the White Man), you think the Black Churches are preaching about, I assure you they are not. Black people do not think about White People as much as you think.

Here is a youtube link of what goes on in the typical Black Church in Detroit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDERpHfYbA

**corktownyuppie** · December-01-12, 01:13 PM

Agree with De'troiter on this Wesley...the black churches in Detroit are a far distinction from political leadership in the city. I'm hardly an expert. But my experience of them has not been that they are on the "White Man is the Devil" platform.

**corktownyuppie** · December-01-12, 01:16 PM

Also, the Rev. Reverend David Murray is not a reflection on the greater religious community.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-01-12, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Agree with De'troiter on this Wesley...the black churches in Detroit are a far distinction from political leadership in the city. I'm hardly an expert. But my experience of them has not been that they are on the "White Man is the Devil" platform.

Yupster, D'troiter.... thanks for responses -- but I think thou do protest too much. No WMITD in my post to refute.

The question I'm interest in is...why aren't black churches taking the lead on 'reform ourselves'?

[[Sorry I even mentioned Rev. Jackson.)

**corktownyuppie** · December-01-12, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Yupster, D'troiter.... thanks for responses -- but I think thou do protest too much. No WMITD in my post to refute.

The question I'm interest in is...why aren't black churches taking the lead on 'reform ourselves'?

[[Sorry I even mentioned Rev. Jackson.)

I think they are. Why aren't they doing so more publicly? Or more pertinently, why aren't they publicly acting as a voice to counteract the Malik Shabazz's of the world?

I don't know.

What I do know is that the problems plaguing Detroit are social problems as much as they are economic problems. One challenge is that we as a society haven't exactly come up with solutions for these social problems. So while I think there's a reasonable stance to take saying that Detroit leadership has failed its people, I think there's also a reasonable stance to take that any other party probably would not have done much better.

Take, for example, charter schools. I'm a big advocate for charter schools in the city because I believe that having freedom of choice will -- eventually -- allow the marketplace of ideas to develop solutions to some of our most difficult problems. That said, charter schools have not yet demonstrated statistically significant improvement in dealing with the most impoverished students.

So, yes, while I do believe that Detroit needs to take a more public "we must reform ourselves" stance, I also believe that no one has developed a mechanism for what that would look like and how to execute it.

The best solution to our social problems thus far has been to run away from it. What we really need are solutions for how to deal with it.

In that regard, I understand the [[misguided) fury of the radical masses.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-01-12, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I think they are. Why aren't they doing so more publicly? Or more pertinently, why aren't they publicly acting as a voice to counteract the Malik Shabazz's of the world?

I don't know.

What I do know is that the problems plaguing Detroit are social problems as much as they are economic problems. One challenge is that we as a society haven't exactly come up with solutions for these social problems. So while I think there's a reasonable stance to take saying that Detroit leadership has failed its people, I think there's also a reasonable stance to take that any other party probably would not have done much better.

Take, for example, charter schools. I'm a big advocate for charter schools in the city because I believe that having freedom of choice will -- eventually -- allow the marketplace of ideas to develop solutions to some of our most difficult problems. That said, charter schools have not yet demonstrated statistically significant improvement in dealing with the most impoverished students.

So, yes, while I do believe that Detroit needs to take a more public "we must reform ourselves" stance, I also believe that no one has developed a mechanism for what that would look like and how to execute it.

The best solution to our social problems thus far has been to run away from it. What we really need are solutions for how to deal with it.

In that regard, I understand the [[misguided) fury of the radical masses.

Thanks for the well-reasoned discussion.

Few comments:

Shabazz & Co -- I really think this needs more understanding. There's an apparent honor in the black community towards leaders who blame others rather than build communities themselves. In this one respect, black nationalism has a point. Build yourself.

Social vs. Economic problems -- Its all about social problems. Since the Johnson's Great Society and onward, money has poured in. And the only improvement its really made is to create a black middle-class who leave Detroit for the same reasons as the whites they are following. Its proven that the problem is social now -- its just that the current global economics have a funny way of pointing out social failure.

Charters -- I agree with you. Experimentation rocks. But you'll find the Holy Grail before you find 'statistical proof' that Charters are working. What's lost in all this is that Charters and other educational freedom will never produce 'proof'. I believe that the existence of Charters has created a culture where the public schools are able to improve themselves. A rising tide raises all boats. I don't expect Charters to show 1% or 50% better scores. I only want the public schools to realize that they must be open to reform. And it looks to me as if they are reforming -- but only because of the possibility [[and reality) of their own demise.

Reform 'Ourselves' Stance -- the hardest one of all. I think its the social problems that mostly hinder progress.

**jackie5275** · December-01-12, 07:26 PM

Several folks have commented on merger/amalgamation of Detroit with Wayne County indicating those living in the burbs wouldn't approve of it as a vote or any other approval process. However, the way around that is for the City to Contract with the County on services. The Sheriff's Office has done this before with DDOT & Highland Park. What else could the County provide? Look at the Health Dept to be one of the first to be contracted. What after that? Probably road maintenenance plus a whole bunch of administrative functions like Accounting, Personnel, Purchasing, etc.