Why did John Engler kill DARTA?

[kenp]

Its very clear to me that Detroiter's hate the State. I dont think Michiganders hate Detroit at all, its the idiots who run it.
Detroit wants to be left alone but get as much aid form the State as possible.
If and when a financial manager comes in the state will open up the pocket books and asset but not until they are running the show.

[p69rrh51]

Along with abolishing Recorder's Court, which was cited regularly for being one of the most efficient courts in the country.

I would have to TOTALLY disagree with that Recorder's Court was the most f**ked up place I have ever had any dealings with!

[Detroitnerd]

Only if the 4 county area were to attach itself to Ontario.

But really, there's gobs of economic activity outstate, in plenty of mid sized cities. They may miss three or four counties, but not one, in its present state.

You can't separate Detroit from metro Detroit. This is our regional policy, to help people of means move away from what are perceived as regional problems. You can only shit in your back yard so long ...

[p69rrh51]

You can't separate Detroit from metro Detroit. This is our regional policy, to help people of means move away from what are perceived as regional problems. You can only shit in your back yard so long ...

Wouldn't running away to Canada fit into the policy you just stated?

[Detroitnerd]

Wouldn't running away to Canada fit into the policy you just stated?

It's a good thing there's an international border there. Downtown Windsor reminds me of Ypsi, kinda. And it only takes fifteen minutes of driving and you're basically out in the country. Before they instituted the ID restrictions, I used to like taking day trips to Leamington.

However much I tease outstate Michiganders about their Detroit-hate, I do like small towns, especially Canadian small towns. We are so fortunate here to essentially have a small town right next to our downtown. Can't think of many regions where that's the case...

[Wesley Mouch]

Snyder is John Engler Jr.

I don't see as much similarity. Very different styles. They do share some philosophies on governance. But I see far less narrow-minded following of party doctrine from Snyder.

The left doesn't realize Snyder is someone they can work with. Do you think Reagan or Engler would have stayed behind labor as long as Snyder did? I do believe he truly wanted to avoid the fight of RTW. In the end, he was forced to take sides. I blame labor for not realizing that they could have worked with Snyder. They listened to the radicals in their midst. Both side could bear to stop listening to radicals.

[313WX]

Its very clear to me that Detroiter's hate the State. I dont think Michiganders hate Detroit at all, its the idiots who run it.
Detroit wants to be left alone but get as much aid form the State as possible.
If and when a financial manager comes in the state will open up the pocket books and asset but not until they are running the show.

Detroiters don't hate Michigan either.

What Detroiters do hate is that the people of Michigan are completely dumbfounded by what their state's largest city has to offer and the fact that they actually go out of their way to dissociate themselves from their state's largest city, from the provincial SE Michigan crap, to the silly suggestion of renaming Metro Detroit Metro Ann Arbor to even trying to make a podunk town like Grand Rapids the state's major city.

[Wesley Mouch]

Detroiters don't hate Michigan either.

What Detroiters do hate is that the people of Michigan are completely dumbfounded by what their state's largest city has to offer and the fact that they actually go out of their way to dissociate themselves from their state's largest city, from the provincial SE Michigan crap, to the silly suggestion of renaming Metro Detroit Metro Ann Arbor to even trying to make a podunk town like Grand Rapids the state's major city.

Did I miss this? Was this a serious suggestion by a responsible party? Or is it possible that you are listening to the fringe of the right and believing that everyone there hates Detroit? Its not true. But there are lunatics. If we listen to them, we'll never get anywhere.

Back to the thread... I don't recall why Engler killed DARTA. But you can bet it was politics. If you want something from your enemy in politics, you compromise and discuss. Killing DARTA or Engler Jr's passing RTW. They probably weren't bolts out of the blue. There was a political backstory.

[313WX]

Did I miss this? Was this a serious suggestion by a responsible party? Or is it possible that you are listening to the fringe of the right and believing that everyone there hates Detroit? Its not true.

Likewise, it's just as silly to think Detroiters hate Michigan based in fringe loons. It's also not true.

[Detroitnerd]

Did I miss this? Was this a serious suggestion by a responsible party?

I think somebody on this forum proposed that.

But they're not alone.

The idea that this isn't metro Detroit but Southeastern Michigan is one of the more abhorrent efforts to mask that Detroit even exists.

Or the way some people say they're from "Bingham Farms, Michigan" when they travel, as if it were Mayberry RFD.

You see institutions do this, as when the Detroit Free Press changed its weekend masthead to read "The Free Press."

Or when MetroParks renamed "Metro Beach" Lake St. Clair Metropark. Apparently dumping any implication that it's part of the metro Detroit area was worth a small fortune to change signage, letterhead, etc., in the midst of a recession, no less.

When I was working on a publishing project several years ago, a sort of Baedeker on metro Detroit, the publisher insisted it not have "Detroit" in the title. [["If it has 'Detroit' in the title, we can't sell ads to Ann Arbor," I was told.) And so you end up with stuff like the Explorer's Guide for our reegion, published by Countryman Press, being titled "Detroit & Ann Arbor: A Great Destination." [[It is not "a" destination, but when you're obfuscating...)

Detroit is the reason this region is developed. Detroit gave the region its institutions. Detroit gave up U-M in 1837, so its endowments and funding benefit Ann Arbor instead. Ten years later, Detroit was forced to give up the state capital, which benefitted outstate Lansing. That's only the beginning of a long process of the city of Detroit giving and giving and giving, and getting hemmed in and surrounded by communities all too ready to accept or take what they could from Detroit.

Now there is little left to take. Detroit is so poor and destitute, there are no institutions left to poach, few companies remain to be wooed. So they want to take one last thing away: the very identity of the place where it all began, to pretend we've always been a provincial little patchwork of Berkleys and Bingham Farms and Independences.

Nice job, Michigan.

[p69rrh51]

I think somebody on this forum proposed that.

But they're not alone.

The idea that this isn't metro Detroit but Southeastern Michigan is one of the more abhorrent efforts to mask that Detroit even exists.

Or the way some people say they're from "Bingham Farms, Michigan" when they travel, as if it were Mayberry RFD.

You see institutions do this, as when the Detroit Free Press changed its weekend masthead to read "The Free Press."

Or when MetroParks renamed "Metro Beach" Lake St. Clair Metropark. Apparently dumping any implication that it's part of the metro Detroit area was worth a small fortune to change signage, letterhead, etc., in the midst of a recession, no less.

When I was working on a publishing project several years ago, a sort of Baedeker on metro Detroit, the publisher insisted it not have "Detroit" in the title. [["If it has 'Detroit' in the title, we can't sell ads to Ann Arbor," I was told.) And so you end up with stuff like the Explorer's Guide for our reegion, published by Countryman Press, being titled "Detroit & Ann Arbor: A Great Destination." [[It is not "a" destination, but when you're obfuscating...)

Detroit is the reason this region is developed. Detroit gave the region its institutions. Detroit gave up U-M in 1837, so its endowments and funding benefit Ann Arbor instead. Ten years later, Detroit was forced to give up the state capital, which benefitted outstate Lansing. That's only the beginning of a long process of the city of Detroit giving and giving and giving, and getting hemmed in and surrounded by communities all too ready to accept or take what they could from Detroit.

Now there is little left to take. Detroit is so poor and destitute, there are no institutions left to poach, few companies remain to be wooed. So they want to take one last thing away: the very identity of the place where it all began, to pretend we've always been a provincial little patchwork of Berkleys and Bingham Farms and Independences.

Nice job, Michigan.

I do not care for The Free Press on the weekends either!
On the other hand Metro Park being at the end of Metropolitan Parkway was the origin of the name and of course being part of Metro Parks did not hurt either. Renaming it to Lake St. Clair park is not a big deal in the 50 years I have lived in the area I have never equated Metro Park to Metro Detroit nor has anyone I know. It was just that ugly place at the end of Metro Parkway.
I have to say when I travel and give Detroit as home I get almost no service at all, but when I say Grosse Pointe service improves drastically!
As for nothing left to poach, the city is its own worst enemy. The CoD has never been able to compete nor has it shown it was willing to compete with the region as a whole especially with the current government!

Really great job Detroit!!

[kenp]

Your blaming Michigan for something that happened almost 200 years ago?

[Detroitnerd]

Your blaming Michigan for something that happened almost 200 years ago?

Your funny.

[Detroitnerd]

I have to say when I travel and give Detroit as home I get almost no service at all, but when I say Grosse Pointe service improves drastically!

I think this must be in your head. Nobody knows or cares what Grosse Pointe is outside of ... well, outside of Grosse Pointe.

As for nothing left to poach, the city is its own worst enemy.

That's true in a lot of ways. It's also more complicated than that. But it's also beside the point: This is metro Detroit, from Trenton to Romulus [[fuck Ann Arbor) to the Bloomies to Mount Clemens, it's all there because Detroit was there first.

[kenp]

I blame the British for Detroit's failure

[kenp]

Or maybe Detroit should be blamed for kicking out the Indians

[Gistok]

"LAKE ST. CLAIR METROPARK".... doesn't that still tell you that it's still a metropark.... did the word "metro" have to appear twice in the title in order for most people to get that it's a metro park?

I think the change was ONLY related to the fact that all the other HCMA parks have a "location" as part of the title... From the earliest times when it was referred to as METROPOLITAN BEACH park... there was never any indication where in the metro area was.

I don't think that repainting part of the entranceway or building signs will cost as much as some would think. Probably took 2 days to complete the "re-stenciling" on that part of the signage.

But as for this having anything to do with hiding that it's part of the Metro Detroit area, I don't think the results bear that out.

[p69rrh51]

I think this must be in your head. Nobody knows or cares what Grosse Pointe is outside of ... well, outside of Grosse Pointe.



That's true in a lot of ways. It's also more complicated than that. But it's also beside the point: This is metro Detroit, from Trenton to Romulus [[fuck Ann Arbor) to the Bloomies to Mount Clemens, it's all there because Detroit was there first.

Of course its way more complicated as the subject has been discussed to death on here.
You must never leave Detroit, but then only the METRO area and you could care less about us except for the money we pay to keep it afloat! Everywhere else I go everyone knows where GP is.

[Detroitnerd]

Of course its way more complicated as the subject has been discussed to death on here.
You must never leave Detroit, but then only the METRO area and you could care less about us except for the money we pay to keep it afloat! Everywhere else I go everyone knows where GP is.

Jeez, man. Don't you know what a smiley face means? That's supposed to be a joke...

If you're affluent enough to live in the Pointes, you should go out and buy yourself a sense of humor ...

[p69rrh51]

Jeez, man. Don't you know what a smiley face means? That's supposed to be a joke...

If you're affluent enough to live in the Pointes, you should go out and buy yourself a sense of humor ...

I spend my days getting rid of smiley faces and what they do to your computer. So sorry I missed that! And maybe I do need a little sense of humor.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Dnerd, I think you didn't go back far enough!

Failure to recognize Detroit as the "it" place goes back through the Potawatomi, who simply recognized the city as their "third stopping place," and never had the decency to refer to the yet-to-be-created city as Detroit, or the region as Metro Detroit.

[Detroitnerd]

"LAKE ST. CLAIR METROPARK".... doesn't that still tell you that it's still a metropark.... did the word "metro" have to appear twice in the title in order for most people to get that it's a metro park?

Meh, you may be right. So discard that one if you like. I know I wasn't the only one to roll his eyes during that "name change."

Heck, they may have stopped calling it Metro Beach because nobody could hop in the fucking water anymore due to all the days the beach was closed to bathers due to E. Coli.

[Detroitnerd]

Dnerd, I think you didn't go back far enough!

Failure to recognize Detroit as the "it" place goes back through the Potawatomi, who simply recognized the city as their "third stopping place," and never had the decency to refer to the yet-to-be-created city as Detroit, or the region as Metro Detroit.

I am not about to start blaming the First Nations for anything -- except perhaps not having an Immigration Bureau.

[brizee]

I guess it's all water under the bridge now as we finally have an actual board to start making decisions. I just gotta vent.

John Engler- Shame on you. You hurt Detroit and you hurt Michigan. For NO reason other than petty personal bullshit. We are ten years less competitive and developed than any other city, be they American or not. I hope this is part of your legacy forever.

Rick Snyder - I didn't vote for you, and I don't particular like or trust you. BUT, however you finagled it you got this done. Hopefully great things, and eventually a less rail-hating entity springs from it. Whatever your legacy ends up being, you will go down as the guy to end 50 years of unforgivable stupidity regarding mass transit here.