Royal Oak doesn't want security gates on retail.

[brizee]

It looks too much like Detroit.

[cman710]

It looks too much like Detroit.

When I was growing up in NYC, this kind of security gate was standard for most local businesses. I do not see the problem with it personally, and I do not see why each business should not be able to choose the security system that it believes is appropriate.

[michimoby]

It looks too much like Detroit.

"Well, we don't want Michigan Avenue looking like Main Street in Royal Oak. We like our clientele sans popped collars and Acqua di Gio." -- Proprietors of Slows, Mercury, and Sugar House

[Bham1982]

"Well, we don't want Michigan Avenue looking like Main Street in Royal Oak. We like our clientele sans popped collars and Acqua di Gio." -- Proprietors of Slows, Mercury, and Sugar House

Isn't the stereotypical "Royal Oak crowd" [[young, white, college educated, maybe a tad fratty) exactly the crowd in places like Slows?

[poobert]

Isn't the stereotypical "Royal Oak crowd" [[young, white, college educated, maybe a tad fratty) exactly the crowd in places like Slows?

Since Royal Oak is the first one to throw the low-blow, I'll tackle this elephant:

No. The Royal Oak scene is the result of the cast of Jersey Shore being impregnated by frat boys. It is to be avoided at all costs unless you're into date rape. Before 1990, when you'd be locked in an insane asylum if you told people Royal Oak was cool, it was just a backwater full of rednecks and now it's an integrated community of Jersey Shore frat boy love children and aging rednecks.

Remember that guy drinking the Bud Lime and doing Jager Bombs, playing Nickleback on the jukebox, who called you "'bra" and then told your girlfriend she had a "bangin' bod"? Yeah, he was from Royal Oak. Sure, he's college educated, but he graduated with a 2.7 from Western with a degree in Communications.

Tell me I'm wrong, Bill Harrison, tell me I'm wrong. Or should I say: come at me bro!

Anyway, demographics aside, the broken windows idea is fine but to bring Detroit into it for no reason at all [[and Michigan Avenue is a weird choice given the real development there, at least in Corktown. Probably the only street he knows of in Detroit) is just typical of this backasswater region.

[Bham1982]

Since Royal Oak is the first one to throw the low-blow, I'll tackle this elephant:

No. The Royal Oak scene is the result of the cast of Jersey Shore being impregnated by frat boys. It is to be avoided at all costs unless you're into date rape. Before 1990, when you'd be locked in an insane asylum if you told people Royal Oak was cool, it was just a backwater full of rednecks and now it's an integrated community of Jersey Shore frat boy love children and aging rednecks.

I understand this is kinda satire, but it's all silly.

The "Royal Oak bar-restaurant crowd" is the same as the "Corktown-Downtown bar-restaurant crowd".

Offhand, the most frat-tastic places in Metro Detroit are mostly downtown. Park Bar, Jacobys, Town Pump, Rub, Bookies [[that place is downright scary), Chelis, Hockeytown, etc. Corktown is like three bars, and is the same crowd, especially when there's a game.

The biggest difference I see in RO is more kids. Otherwise, they're very similar. Ferndale is pretty similar too, I'd say [[though I'm guessing now someone is going to call Ferndale the Midwest Williamsburg or Prenzlauer Berg).

[Wesley Mouch]

While we're regulating liberty, worth noting that insurance rules sometimes require them as a condition of continued coverage for certain businesses. Pharmacies for example.

[poobert]

Offhand, the most frat-tastic places in Metro Detroit are mostly downtown. Park Bar, Jacobys, Town Pump, Rub, Bookies [[that place is downright scary), Chelis, Hockeytown, etc. Corktown is like three bars, and is the same crowd, especially when there's a game.

Touche! Except Park Bar and Town Pump - lay off my places! They still have some hipster doofus cred when it isn't a game day [[when actual Detroiters avoid downtown, except for the panhandlers)

[bailey]

It looks too much like Detroit.

GP Woods made the Men's Wearhouse on Mack take their gates down shortly after it opened. I'm not sure how.

Seems to me to be somewhat of an extension of the "broken windows" philosophy pushed often on this board. If you don't want your main street to look like a war zone....don't allow the stuff that would make it look like one.

Roll down shutters and gates imply something is going on around there that requires businesses to fortify their places at night.

[Gistok]

GP Woods made the Men's Wearhouse on Mack take their gates down shortly after it opened. I'm not sure how.

Seems to me to be somewhat of an extension of the "broken windows" philosophy pushed often on this board. If you don't want your main street to look like a war zone....don't allow the stuff that would make it look like one.

Roll down shutters and gates imply something is going on around there that requires businesses to fortify their places at night.

Isn't half of Florida gated like this during the off season?

People do need to get off the "it looks like Detroit" mindset. In Europe, many residential property has this type of gating on the homes.

I could understand the uproar over the "accordion" "X" gates... but really these are sleek and clean looking...

Let me guess... they probably have ordinances against Armor Guard front and side doors as well?

If there is no ordinance on the books in Royal Oak and they put one out there... this place should either be grandfathered, or reimbursed for the $25K expenses at NOT having gone against an ordinance.

[bailey]

Isn't half of Florida gated like this during the off season?

Yeah and they are there because they are first and foremost, hurricane shutters. My family has them on their house in florida... they did not put them up to keep out burglars.

People do need to get off the "it looks like Detroit" mindset. In Europe, many residential property has this type of gating on the homes.

I disagree. Municipalities can set whatever guides they want on what they will allow. Roll down blast doors are not typical nor deemed particularly aesthetically pleasing. Further, IN THIS REGION - ignoring the "they do it elsewhere" defense - shutters of this nature telegraph to the populace that there is a crime problem.

I could understand the uproar over the "accordion" "X" gates... but really these are sleek and clean looking...

Let me guess... they probably have ordinances against Armor Guard front and side doors as well?

If there is no ordinance on the books in Royal Oak and they put one out there... this place should either be grandfathered, or reimbursed for the $25K expenses at NOT having gone against an ordinance.

Agreed. a) they could have put up something far less clean; b) if there is no ordinance, RO is blowing smoke.

But again, ala the Broken Windows theory... if you allow this exception... there will be more people with them. And if it's in response to a REAL threat [[regular break-ins after hours in Downtown RO) and not perceived threat [[ooh, i'm close to Detroit, I saw some black people outside my store late at night and I think I will be robbed) that is addressing the wrong end of the problem. If there is a rash of break ins in RO that require businesses to build fortresses, then the RO and ROPD have some explaining to do. They need to spend less time handing out MIPs and nickle dime pot arrests and focus real crime.

[iheartthed]

But again, ala the Broken Windows theory... if you allow this exception... there will be more people with them. And if it's in response to a REAL threat [[regular break-ins after hours in Downtown RO) and not perceived threat [[ooh, i'm close to Detroit, I saw some black people outside my store late at night and I think I will be robbed) that is addressing the wrong end of the problem. If there is a rash of break ins in RO that require businesses to build fortresses, then the RO and ROPD have some explaining to do. They need to spend less time handing out MIPs and nickle dime pot arrests and focus real crime.

This is not an application of the Broken Windows theory. There are plenty of security shutters in Manhattan, where the theory was popularized.

[bailey]

This is not an application of the Broken Windows theory. There are plenty of security shutters in Manhattan, where the theory was popularized.

RO is not NYC..or Paris..or Detroit. There are no security shutters in RO because there is no need for them.

Allow this business to do it, and there will be more. because the perception will be that there is a crime problem. and then there is a drop in foot traffic because all anyone sees after 6pm is a bunch of rolled down shutters over businesses. Then comes the tagging of the doors. and then there is a decline in businesses that want to be there because they dont want to drop 25k to secure their buildings at night with shutters and deal with the tagging. etc, etc, etc.

It's "Broken windows" from the context of not allowing the small things to slip.

But again, as repeatedly pointed out.. if there is no ordinance against them, RO is SOL.

[iheartthed]

GP Woods made the Men's Wearhouse on Mack take their gates down shortly after it opened. I'm not sure how.

Seems to me to be somewhat of an extension of the "broken windows" philosophy pushed often on this board. If you don't want your main street to look like a war zone....don't allow the stuff that would make it look like one.

Roll down shutters and gates imply something is going on around there that requires businesses to fortify their places at night.

Seems ridiculous to me and reeks of small town insularity. I've been to plenty of big vibrant cities and one thing they all had in common is that many businesses in the city center had security gates.

[Eber Brock Ward]

RO being "a tad fratty" is a hell of an understatement.

It is the Lincoln Park or Murray Hill of the Detroit region.

[corktownyuppie]

RO being "a tad fratty" is a hell of an understatement.

It is the Lincoln Park or Murray Hill of the Detroit region.

Agreed. RO is not a tad fratty. I'm a tad fratty.

RO consistently takes .....b-aggery to ever soaring new heights. Young, white, and college educated can be segmented out into crowds as well...and it's funny, while many Detroiters may resent all of these higher income suburbanites coming into the city, a lot of those suburbanites come here because they're trying to enjoy a city lifestyle while also trying to get away from the total frattiness that can be Royal Oak on a Friday night. They're also lamenting because the upscale units opening up are attracting an ever-more -privileged crowd that is annoying.

But it's what comes along with a healthy real estate market, so I'll take it.

Hell, you wanna hear about gentrification? My landlord is telling me that Jalen Rose wants to live in my unit, and so if I want to stay, I'll need to up the rent.

Life is good for me, but not Jalen Rose good.

[gnome]

There are these new image wrap systems that we see on busses and buildings and custom cars. Maybe the store owner could emblazon an photo of the store window on the steel grate. It would give the impression the store is not on lockdown, that the city isn't under siege, yet provide security for the building contents.

below is a pretty convincing second floor imaged on top of a building.


http://www.imagegroupuk.com/images/p...6b_resized.jpg

[DetroitPlanner]

I bet the City fathers would have thought differently if this was done to Noir Leather and not a Wine Shop.

[Det_ard]

1. Looks like crap.

2. Implies a lack of safety and high rate of burglary.

3. Ever "window-shopped" after retail hours in a retail district with steel security "curtains" covering all the windows? Nothing to see except the graffiti on the "curtains". See #1 ^^^.

4. Transparent security window film is a far more attractive solution. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3..._Window_Films/

[ThosWolfe]

Not just Royal Oak.
A Redford Twp business has installed a rollup door covering its glass door at night.
'Out of code'
Odd- a compromise in the works will permit a shield INSIDE the door if possible, but not the roll-up doors. And yet they're OK with the 'accordian X' gates?
Redford Observer article:
http://www.hometownlife.com/article/...text|Redford|s

[Islandman]

Hamtramck also has this in their commercial building code.

[wolverine]

Those aren't "security gates." The article shows a picture of a security SHUTTER. It's very difficult to ban security gates, but you can regulate their appearance. You can however ban security shutters but replace them with security screens that roll down on the interior side of the glass and are very similar to what you see in malls.

You can't write an ordinance without using the correct terminology. Last thing you want to do is inadvertently prohibit a door. Lot's of places prohibit the use of shutters, but obviously permit other means of providing a physical security barrier beyond a locked door.

[mauser]

If RO wants to back up the ordinance with the proper amount of police patrols, then it is reasonable. I havent noticed Royal Oak attacking and laying off its police force like Detroit does, so they are 100% in the right.

Very surreal how so many here equate the downtown RO bar crowd with the actual residents of the city. "Fratty" ? Ima gonna tell my motherinlaw that shes "fratty" for owning a home in RO.

Nothing is more "fratty" than the Detroit bars listed on this thread, and on many days, this forum itself.

[Pam]

Before 1990, when you'd be locked in an insane asylum if you told people Royal Oak was cool, it was just a backwater full of rednecks

No, it was cool in the 80s.

[Gistok]

This retailer isn't the first one in RO to have these... there's a jewelry store down the road with these blinds. I imagine that insurance costs are lower due to their installation.