"Frank Rizzo"

[noise]

I am outraged that somebody would comment negatively about the white racists that live in the Metro Detroit suburbs. How dare they!

I'm glad we have a good amount of apologists to come to their rescue on this forum!

[jt1]

There are not more such incidents simply because the whites chose their environments and keep moving away from where it happens. The victimized white people are usually the ones too poor and too unfortunate to move away.

And there, ladies and gentleman, is a perfect example. Because we all know that the only reason well to do whites fled [[and continue to flee further out) is because of the massive amounts of black on white beatings.

I'd appreciate some statistics to back this up since, of the seeming hundreds of 'reasons', why people continue to flee [[not just from the city but inner rings) is certainly because of all of those black folks beating up white people everywhere.

Is that what happened in Southfield? Is that what's happening in EastPointe, Roseville, Warren, etc. I would have imagined I'd be hearing about this non-stop.

[jt1]

Well he accomplished what he came for, everybody is @ each others throat. To deny racism doesn't exist is unrealistic. To paint everyone who chooses not to live in Detroit with a racist brush is plain BS. I have family in the 'burbs, seriously ritzy 'burbs, and their neighborhood is a mixture of races. They don't understand why I choose to live where I do, but it's safety and amenties, that's the puzzlement, not racism. Not everyone wants to spend their lives fighting the good fight.

Who is painting everyone that lives in the suburbs with a racist brush? The Frank Rizzo description is of a subset of people in the suburbs. I think Detroitnerd has made that clear many times.

It seems that there are two extremes [[1) people thinking that the Frank Rizzo description is intended to describe all who live outside the city and [[2) the thought that the Frank Rizzo description does not exist and is strictly a figment of some people's imagination.

Thinking either one of the two is true is just sheer stupidity.

[Honky Tonk]

Who is painting everyone that lives in the suburbs with a racist brush? The Frank Rizzo description is of a subset of people in the suburbs. I think Detroitnerd has made that clear many times.

It seems that there are two extremes [[1) people thinking that the Frank Rizzo description is intended to describe all who live outside the city and [[2) the thought that the Frank Rizzo description does not exist and is strictly a figment of some people's imagination.

Thinking either one of the two is true is just sheer stupidity.

Then I'm stupid and you win. Have a latte on me.

[jt1]

Then I'm stupid and you win. Have a latte on me.

My intent was not to call you stupid [[as you have demonstrated from a number of posts that you are not). What I am calling stupid is the thought/support of both extremes [[people are calling everyone in the suburbs racist but nobody in the suburbs is racist).

[Hermod]

And there, ladies and gentleman, is a perfect example. Because we all know that the only reason well to do whites fled [[and continue to flee further out) is because of the massive amounts of black on white beatings.

I'd appreciate some statistics to back this up since, of the seeming hundreds of 'reasons', why people continue to flee [[not just from the city but inner rings) is certainly because of all of those black folks beating up white people everywhere.

Is that what happened in Southfield? Is that what's happening in EastPointe, Roseville, Warren, etc. I would have imagined I'd be hearing about this non-stop.

"Dog bites man" is not newsworthy while "Man bites dog" is newsworthy.

[jt1]

"Dog bites man" is not newsworthy while "Man bites dog" is newsworthy.

Are you saying that 'black man assaults white man for being white' is akin to 'dog bites man'? Damn, I didn't realize it was soooo frequent.

[coracle]

And there, ladies and gentleman, is a perfect example. Because we all know that the only reason well to do whites fled [[and continue to flee further out) is because of the massive amounts of black on white beatings.

I'd appreciate some statistics to back this up since, of the seeming hundreds of 'reasons', why people continue to flee [[not just from the city but inner rings) is certainly because of all of those black folks beating up white people everywhere.

Is that what happened in Southfield? Is that what's happening in EastPointe, Roseville, Warren, etc. I would have imagined I'd be hearing about this non-stop.

The whites left Detroit because they didn't want to live with blacks of the Detroitnerd ilk. Now blacks are leaving for the same reason.

[jt1]

The whites left Detroit because they didn't want to live with blacks of the Detroitnerd ilk. Now blacks are leaving for the same reason.

So in the 1950s all these "blacks of the Detroitnerd ilk" just infiltrated the city causing people to flee in droves? So it is all the fault of those uppity "blacks of the Detroitnerd ilk" that caused the whites to flee and in turn caused the massive decline of the city.

Got it.

[Hermod]

Are you saying that 'black man assaults white man for being white' is akin to 'dog bites man'? Damn, I didn't realize it was soooo frequent.

Look at the thread that we had on here a couple of months ago about the two gentlemen who swung from the other side of the plate getting beat up on 7-Mile road. It not only dropped like a stone, most of the comments were of the nature that they shouldn't have been in that part of town if they didn't want to get beat up.

If a couple of Yoopers beat up a black visitor in Ishpeming, it would be on the national news and the commentators pontificate forever about the "racial climate" in the city of Ishpeming.

[coracle]

I think you might be on to something jt1. But there wasn't a date certain. It just happened naturally as they developed their ilk and as people left so their ilk grew percentage wise, and as there are far fewer non- ilkers today those that have ilk have to crowd on threads like this to be noticed.

[Honky Tonk]

Are you saying that 'black man assaults white man for being white' is akin to 'dog bites man'? Damn, I didn't realize it was soooo frequent.

2 Saturdays ago, a friend of mine did get the shit kicked out of him, and a hit with a chair, in a predominantly black bar. He's white. His crime? He was with his wife of 13 years, she's black. According to her, they didn't like "whitey" being with no black woman. This incident was in my head when I decided to respond to this stupid thread. You talk like this kind of stuff never happens. Were black men ever attacked, and killed by white racists? Plenty. You talk about me exagerating, what about this post:

"And there, ladies and gentleman, is a perfect example. Because we all know that the only reason well to do whites fled [[and continue to flee further out) is because of the massive amounts of black on white beatings."

No, it's not the only reason whites left Detroit. But there was plenty of that and then some. I know, I was there for it and went through it. My only point was that racism exists, to this day, on both sides of the fence. If you don't believe it, you're diluting yourself, and I hope you never have to find out the hard way.

[Zozo]

When I ride my bike through Detroit it's pretty common for black people to yell racist things at me. For example, just this past summer I had a bottle thrown at me and these black guys were yelling and calling me "Jimmy Neutron". A short time after that on another ride with my girlfriend, I overheard this black guy say to his black friends about my girlfriend, "That bitch look like Katy Perry". Pretty disgusting and common behavior, IMHO.

[TKshreve]

When I ride my bike through Detroit it's pretty common for black people to yell racist things at me. For example, just this past summer I had a bottle thrown at me and these black guys were yelling and calling me "Jimmy Neutron". A short time after that on another ride with my girlfriend, I overheard this black guy say to his black friends about my girlfriend, "That bitch look like Katy Perry". Pretty disgusting and common behavior, IMHO.

But that's obviously not ALL Detroiters..... just a subset of them, so wagging your finger at that type of person is justified and explains the racial divide our region continues to suffer from.

BTW.... how did they manage to hit you with a bottle from inside the barber shop?

[Detroitnerd]

DetroitNerd... if you're Italian then Thursday night on PBS is for you... first an aerial tour of southern Italy [[8PM)... then a special on metro Detroit Italian-Americans [[8:30PM), and then Italian-American culture at the Detroit Opera House.... [[9:30PM)

Thanks, Gistok ... er, grazie.

[Detroitnerd]

The whites left Detroit because they didn't want to live with blacks of the Detroitnerd ilk. Now blacks are leaving for the same reason.

Reading comprehension fail.

Coracle, as has been mentioned multiple times on this thread, detroitnerd is white.

[bailey]

Reading comprehension fail.

Coracle, as has been mentioned multiple times on this thread, detroitnerd is white.

did you just refer to yourself in the third person?

[canuck]

This thread is interesting for one reason among many others; it was started on the premise that a fictional character that was made up of a contingent of suburban whites represented anti-Detroit, anti-black sentiment.

It was another one of those threads with emotionally charged, not totally rational, not wholly statistical content that heated up and kept on burning fuel for a good while. You can read the frustration on all posts and the stubbornness, the sadness and the hope in many.

The disconnect is evident, and the same disconnectedness exists in many regions and cities of our planet. We all know that Detroit has a major disconnect and that it needs to be more resourceful, more resolved, more purposeful in finding a solution to the lack of cohesiveness. This thread is provocative, yes; but I think it serves its goal of examining attitudes following a provocation. There is enough here to bring on a constructive appraisal of the needs of the region, and the ways to circumvent explosive behavior.

The humor in many posts is also a relief from the hostility. Detroit is a lot better than it thinks it is.

[detroitsgwenivere]

canuck=wise

DNerd=too funny for some


"For by wise counsel you shall make your war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety." Proverbs 24:6

[Wheels]

Much closer to home we had our own Orville Hubbard. Mr. "Keep Dearborn Clean". He made Frank Rizzo look like a Choir Boy! Strange thing is both cities faired much better over time then Detroit.

[Hermod]

Much closer to home we had our own Orville Hubbard. Mr. "Keep Dearborn Clean". He made Frank Rizzo look like a Choir Boy! Strange thing is both cities faired much better over time then Detroit.

Hubbard had it easy in Dearborn. They could afford a lot of stuff when Henry Ford's properties were kicking such a massive amount in property taxes into the civic fisc.

[Wheels]

Hubbard had it easy in Dearborn. They could afford a lot of stuff when Henry Ford's properties were kicking such a massive amount in property taxes into the civic fisc.

Detroit still had a massive industrial base under Young!

[Detroitnerd]

Detroit still had a massive industrial base under Young!

Not compared to the good old days. This was due to a number of factors, including the interstate highway system, which opened up the beet fields around Detroit for massive residential and industrial development, the G.I. Bill, which largely allowed whites to obtain home loans for new houses in the suburbs, as well as federal policies that required dispersal of industry as a tactical response to nuclear attack. By the early 1960s, the city had been already been bled of many residents of means, and had lost lost of revenue-producing factories, and downtown faced stiff competition from a number of regional malls.

Detroit's budget was stretched to the breaking point by the early 1960s. In order to cover a multimillion-dollar budget gap, Mayor Jerome Cavanagh pushed through income and commuter taxes to address the shortfalls.

No, Hermod is right. Orville Hubbard had it easy on his watch. And it's not somehow an anomaly that Detroit suffered at the same time. It's a fact of history.

[JVB]

1. You glossed over the south of 16 mile statement [[and again, I want to hang out where you do if you never hear of such things) because that would continue the dialogue at hand.

I didn't gloss over it, I addressed it directly by saying I had never heard that. I wouldn't even know what to make of a statement like that since Royal Oak, Huntington Woods, pleasant Ridge, Bingham Farms, Beverly Hills, Franklin, parts of Troy and Sterling Heights etc etc etc all are south of 16 mile or partly south of 16 mile. That statement doesn't even make any sense.

I have heard you can't live south of 16 many, many times. Do you find that to be veiled racism [[even if you've never heard it)

If you say you've heard that so be it, but no I don't find that racist in the least. The vast majority of the population south of 16 mile is white, at least until you get to 8 mile so I don't know how it could be racist for someone to say they don't want to live near "those whites" in Madison Heights or whatever it is you seem to be implying. Am I missing something?

[Zozo]

Orville Hubbard had it easy on his watch. And it's not somehow an anomaly that Detroit suffered at the same time. It's a fact of history.

Dearborn may or may not have had it easy during the 60s, but Detroit's leadership failed during that pivotal time. Let's not make anymore excuses for Detroit's leadership. Many former industrial cities were faced with the same challenges described above, from Chicago, to Seattle, to New York City. Even some sunbelt cities, such as Dallas, also experienced white flight, disinvestment, and was heavily carved up by freeways. Somehow these cities found a way to adapt, survive, and grow.