Bill Schuette still fighting the Affordable Care Act

[Zacha341]

Long story short: we have yet to see the FULL outcomes of the plan [[as Pelosi said we have 'pass the bill to see what is in it'!).

It will not be pain free of a fix all as promised and employers will have to adapt one way of another. And as for all business owners being rich? Rubbish! I have a close friend who employes seven people. She works very hard along side them and is worried about what further taxation and regulation will impact her ability to make money to in turn pay her staff!

[Zacha341]

Most small business I know are spending extra resources and time fending off the miles of taxes, tax code and bureaucratic regulations to stay afloat. And I am not talking about doing anything illegal and what not. I am speaking of just the increasing load of governmental intrusion beyond reasonable regulations and standard business taxing.

I always laugh when I hear rhetoric like this. For some reason people assume anyone that runs a business is rich and can easily spare the extra money for added taxes and expenses.

[p69rrh51]

Thanks for that Scrooge-like diatribe. I'm glad that I don't work for you.
It becomes painfully obvious that you care little for any of your employees,and consider them easily replaceable commodities.

Here's a hint. If you avail yourself of the tax credits inherent in the program, and include a program so your employees share your costs, your exposure will be a lot less than you think.

And, by the way, by NOT providing health care, that forces your employees into public options which YOU are paying for anyway.

Well when you job is eliminated do not complain to me!

[p69rrh51]

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And your point is?

[Zacha341]

Yeah, 'Politics to Policy to PERSONAL' is a real doozy when it is comes about!

Well when you job is eliminated do not complain to me!

[JVB]

Most small business I know are spending extra resources and time fending off the miles of taxes, tax code and bureaucratic regulations to stay afloat. And I am not talking about doing anything illegal and what not. I am speaking of just the increasing load of governmental intrusion beyond reasonable regulations and standard business taxing.

Exactly. But if you listen to the rhetoric on TV and on the Internet, all business owners are greedy and rich. It's sad how ignorant most people are.

[Zacha341]

Just anti-business rhetoric casting too broad a net as is usually the case with rhetoric.

I guess the 'government' or emerging governance be it run by the left or right is now the most benevolent form of 'business' [[neither greedy or rich). Ala run by the right party of the supposed 'specific' party pendulum swing; telling us they have our best interests at heart, per our compliance?

How perfect - no worries there. Glad I can exhale...

Exactly. But if you listen to the rhetoric on TV and on the Internet, all business owners are greedy and rich. It's sad how ignorant most people are.

[Wheels]

I still have not heard a legitimate explanation on the rhetoric of this being affordable! Everyone who has insurance is going to be gouged to keep it from here out. Those that don't have it are going to be FORCED into buying it. So the only affordable part are the few on the government roles? Who pays for them? Guess what? You do!

[Whitehouse]

Djeez! What a load of fuss.

I'm not American. I'm Dutch and enjoying a healthy life. I'm insured, as is mandatory in my country. And I guess this is what you're faced with now as the ACA is taking effect. I'm insured against anything that gets in my path.
Beginning of this year my father had a severe asthma attack and this resulted in him being hospitalized for several weeks. [[In fact, he was in a coma for two weeks, thankfully he made a full recovery although he still takes some medicine). If he lived in America and was not insured, I'm sure he might have lost his home by now and we as the rest of the family will have paid some of the bill. Because this treatment he had to take was not a cheap one.
He's fully covered.
I've seen some reports of people who were staunch Republicans but when they were faced with a life-threatening decease, and could rely on Obama care, they turned around and had to eat a lot of humble pie.
The Republicans are dancing to the music of the health industry. As long as the insurers are raking in massive profits at the expense of the general population, affordable care is not possible. Take out the middleman.
The tea-party uses the argument that they are robbed of their "freedom". I would be grateful for Obama care for given me the freedom of not worrying about my heath insurance.

[Zacha341]

Yep. And we are not even going to start on the quality or delivery systems or said 'care'... I like how well the gov provides Medicaid and Medicare, both nearing insolvency. Really impressed ---- !

Yes, we did/ do need health care reform, understand that. But I am not feeling this mystery box we are starting to open the top on.

I still have not heard a legitimate explanation on the rhetoric of this being affordable! Everyone who has insurance is going to be gouged to keep it from here out. Those that don't have it are going to be FORCED into buying it. So the only affordable part are the few on the government roles? Who pays for them? Guess what? You do!

[Zacha341]

Republicans are not the only folks on the globe reserved about Obamacare. THE RIGHT DOES NOT [[and should not) 'OWN' THE CONCERN, whatever their personal hypocrisies are!!!

I've seen some reports of people who were staunch Republicans but when they were faced with a life-threatening decease, and could rely on Obama care, they turned around and had to eat a lot of humble pie.

The Republicans are dancing to the music of the health industry. As long as the insurers are raking in massive profits at the expense of the general population, affordable care is not possible. Take out the middleman. The tea-party uses the argument that they are robbed of their "freedom". I would be grateful for Obama care for given me the freedom of not worrying about my heath insurance.

[Wesley Mouch]

I still have not heard a legitimate explanation on the rhetoric of this being affordable! Everyone who has insurance is going to be gouged to keep it from here out. Those that don't have it are going to be FORCED into buying it. So the only affordable part are the few on the government roles? Who pays for them? Guess what? You do!

I'm a rabid libertarian, and I don't like Obamacare [[but I do like the title -- and pleased that he has accepted the label).

The logic is this. If you don't take care of yourself, you end up costing the system more than you would otherwise. I've seen this happen. A sick co-worker didn't go to the doctor. They could have taken some anti-biotics. Case closed. Instead, they got severely sick, ended up costing the system hundreds of thousands, and then died. We lost a productive member of society, and we spent a lot of money.

Simple version: early, preventative care ends up being cheaper than delayed critical care in the emergency room.

The weaknesses of the system are: 1) we'll see everything as a right, and want to cover lots of optional care, 2) the insurance companies will make lots of money.

The solutions to the above are 'death panels' and 'single payer'. Both of which I favor. We already have 'death panels' -- its just a decision now about who makes those decisions.

I'm looking forward to seeing if this system can really get off the ground. For all of our financial sakes, I do hope so -- even though I would never have gone down this misguided road.

[JVB]

I'm not American. I'm Dutch and enjoying a healthy life. I'm insured, as is mandatory in my country. And I guess this is what you're faced with now as the ACA is taking effect. I'm insured against anything that gets in my path.

You can not compare systems between two countries with completely different cultures and vastly different population sizes.

And remember - just because someone thinks Obamacare is a bad program, doesn't mean they don't support health care reform. Many of us would just rather not have a program written by the insurance companies that stand to get even richer, and never read by our legislators that voted it in. Even if you support Obamacare you have to admit that is a recipe for disaster down the road.

The Republicans are dancing to the music of the health industry. As long as the insurers are raking in massive profits at the expense of the general population, affordable care is not possible. Take out the middleman.

I'm not a Republican, but you've got this backwards. The health insurance companies are the ones that wrote the bill - why do you think they love it so much? And why do you suppose the majority of doctors are so much against Obamacare? Anytime you have a policy that is loved by insurance companies, and hated by the actual health care providers - I think it's safe to say who stands to benefit and who is going to suffer.

[Zacha341]

...Just because someone thinks Obamacare is a bad program, doesn't mean they don't support health care reform.

That statement is crucial... Likewise, just because you have reservations about president Obama does not mean you voted for Romney or are a republican. Thank you!

[rb336]

No I don't but my personal requirements will force changes, and everyone I know who is a manager or employs over 50 are all planning on reducing staff and hours.

just curious, what "personal requirements" are those? and since you are exempt by having less than 50 employees, how are changes that do not apply to you forcing you to reduce staff? please educate me

[oladub]

Whitehouse, Wealthy as modern Europe is, it's time for the US to bring all its armed forces home from Europe. You can pay for your own defense problems in Serbia, Libya, Paris suburbs, securing gas from Russia, and oil from the middle east if you so choose. Doing so, you could help free up some money we are spending on European defense for US healthcare or reducing our debt. That should cheer you. Your help in bearing Europe's own self defense obligations, rather then the criticism you posted, would be appreciated.

[JVB]

Whitehouse, Wealthy as modern Europe is, it's time for the US to bring all its armed forces home from Europe. You can pay for your own defense problems in Serbia, Libya, Paris suburbs, securing gas from Russia, and oil from the middle east if you so choose. Doing so, you could help free up some money we are spending on European defense for US healthcare or reducing our debt. That should cheer you. Your help in bearing Europe's own self defense obligations, rather then the criticism you posted, would be appreciated.

That's a great point that a lot of people fail to get. All of this wonderful socialism in Europe is only possible because your national defense is taken care of by the US. Good luck paying for everyone's medical bills and university when Russia and Germany are busy fighting over your little slice of the world like dogs over a chew toy. How soon you guys forget your history.

[rb336]

How quickly some people misunderstand history - and the current state of affairs.

[313WX]

As a liberal, I'm also against Obamacare. While it may get more people insured one way or another, it does absolutely nothing to control costs. Personally, I was in favor of a Single-Payer Option [[I.E. Medicare for everyone).

And I also truly feel for the small businesses these days. However, they're misguided in their anger and frustration.

If they should be angry and frustrated at anyone, it should be the huge corporations such as Wal-Mart who bribe our elected politicians imto passing laws such as NAFTA that diminishes the income of your neighbors [[customer base, thus diminished demand for the goods/services you sell) and allows them to sell their goods at even cheaper prices.

Besides, TRUE small businesses will receive a tax credit for insuring more people when Obamacare kicks in. Major companies will also continue their health insurance plans as is when Obamacare kicks in, mostly because it's necessary in order to attract top talent. It'll be the mid-sized and retail/fast food businesses that take the biggest kick in the nuts.

[corktownyuppie]

So today, my undergraduate fraternity is hosting a dinner lecture with a professor who teaches Public Health, Public Policy, and Econ classes at the University of Michigan. Unfortunately, it's by invite only otherwise I'd just share the information to all of you here.

But, I'll be getting a chance to have some one-on-one time with her before the lecture as well as moderating part of the Q & A. If anyone has any questions for me to ask her, send me a private message. I'll choose the most interesting [[interesting to me, that is) queries and come back with some answers.

So let's hear em!
CTY

[corktownyuppie]

Hey...I was just talking about this!

The GOP's Civil War [[Time Magazine)

[gazhekwe]

Whitehouse is actually correct that Republicans drove impetus for putting the insurance company provisions into the ACA. There was no way it would have passed without significant insurance company cooperation and some support from the Republican side. Single payer was the first thing Obama cast out of the bill, because it had no Republican support and lacked full support of the Dems. I would much prefer single payer myself. It seems to me that in a world economy, we can no longer afford to depend on employers supplying health care benefits, when much of the rest of the world's economic powerhouses have single payer.

[oladub]

Whitehouse is actually correct that Republicans drove impetus for putting the insurance company provisions into the ACA. There was no way it would have passed without significant insurance company cooperation and some support from the Republican side. Single payer was the first thing Obama cast out of the bill, because it had no Republican support and lacked full support of the Dems. I would much prefer single payer myself. It seems to me that in a world economy, we can no longer afford to depend on employers supplying health care benefits, when much of the rest of the world's economic powerhouses have single payer.

According to the 10th Amendment, government health care programs should be run at the state rather than federal level as the federal government has no designated power to run a national heath care program. I realize that the Supreme Court gave cover to this unaffordable monstrosity by coming up with a ruling that if something could be taxed, it is Constitutional since Congress has the power to raise taxes. This trumps the most creative interpretations of the commerce clause in making everything constitutional.

Vermont is trying to institute its own single payer plan much like any Canadian provincial single payer plan. However, the Obamacare people are insisting that all the corporatist garbage in Obamacare be included in any Vermont single payer plan. This includes maintaining the interests of big pharma, insurance corporations, and lawyers making even Vermont's proposed single payer plan expensive.

I would like to see the people of Vermont succeed in setting up something like a Canadian Provincial single payer plan if that is what they want. If allowed to function by the Obamacare police, Vermont could set an example for other states.

Remember this 2008 Obama broken promise?
“We are going to work with you to lower your premiums by $2,500. We will not wait 20 years from now to do it, or 10 years from now to do it. We will do it by the end of my first term as president.”
Instead, Insurance premiums went up an average of $3,000. We are in for a rough ride.

[brizee]

It's gonna be set up. Michigan just won't have any say in how it's setup.

What did you really accomplish?

[rb336]

Single payer was the first thing Obama cast out of the bill, because it had no Republican support and lacked full support of the Dems.

Actually, Obama never had any plan for a single-payer system