Young People Moving into the Downtown Area from the Suburbs: Reviews, Please.

[JVB]

Yes. It's just that in Detroit's case, we are atrociously bad -- almost in a remarkable way -- of letting rich investors know that they aren't welcome.

-- $200 million...million...that Detroit turned down for the school system
-- $6 million per year in saved operating costs letting Michigan run Belle Isle
-- $160 million to invest in the Detroit lighting system, opposed by Detroit reps
-- $221 million...upgrades at Cobo Hall, but only after it was "hijacked" by the suburbs.

In most cities, people make fun of the rich. People even dislike the rich. Here we tell them to GTFO and get mad at them for not leaving their money behind before they leave.

Oh yeah. I missed your point, but you're right. That is pretty unique to Detroit.

[jt1]

Yes. It's just that in Detroit's case, we are atrociously bad -- almost in a remarkable way -- of letting rich investors know that they aren't welcome.

-- $200 million...million...that Detroit turned down for the school system
-- $6 million per year in saved operating costs letting Michigan run Belle Isle
-- $160 million to invest in the Detroit lighting system, opposed by Detroit reps
-- $221 million...upgrades at Cobo Hall, but only after it was "hijacked" by the suburbs.

In most cities, people make fun of the rich. People even dislike the rich. Here we tell them to GTFO and get mad at them for not leaving their money behind before they leave.

One correction [[I believe). The $200MM was for charters in the city, not for the city school system. Whether it would have been good or bad is up for debate but it was not like handing over $200MM to the school system

[313WX]

It's not that capital investment isn't a good thing. MAke no mistake about it, I'm sure EVERYONE involved wants to see a wealthier Detroit that's bustling with all sorts of people, commerce and industry, from the city workers to the retirees to the long-time neighborhood residents to the young folks moving downtown. I doubt any of the above group like to see Detroit as is.

That said, at the same time, you can't just decide you're going to diminish their views because they may not share the exact same vision to reach that goal as you do.

These folks are Detroiters as well with real experiences and they also want to play a vital role in the city's comeback. They have needs and desires they would like to be met as well. However, after they were left behind to deal with a crumbling city for well over 30 years, you're now telling them that all of the money they've paid to the city in taxes isn't good enough, that they're impediments who don't deserve the same representation you do [[or in other words, need to have their voices diluted) and you're either going to deal with things my way or hit or the highway.

And I'm not referring to one particular person in my post. In fact CY, most o your posts are fairly reasonable. I also don't think some of the people who radiate these condescending feelings do it on purpose, because again everyone share the ultimate goal.

Bottom line, we need to try and come up with better ways to express our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the city without belittling the experience of other Detroiters. We also need to find a better way to include ALL Detroiters and suburbanites in any type of comeback. Instead of choosing losers and winners or deciding who's going to endure the most pain for the team, we should be welcoming everyone to the table to discuss ways the quality of life can be improved for all. Hear out the cries from the senior citizen in SW Detroit who doesn't have adequate street lighting on her block and include her in the discussion as to how that situation can be fixed for her. Don't just simply her to "Put up or shut up!!!" because you may not want to hear what she says or like how she says it. Even if you don't have an immediately solution, at least make her feel as if you are taking her concern into consideration and working on a way to fix the problem ASAP.

[gthomas]

It's not that capital investment isn't a good thing. MAke no mistake about it, I'm sure EVERYONE involved wants to see a wealthier Detroit that's bustling with all sorts of people, commerce and industry, from the city workers to the retirees to the long-time neighborhood residents to the young folks moving downtown. I doubt any of the above group like to see Detroit as is.

That said, at the same time, you can't just decide you're going to diminish their views because they may not share the exact same vision to reach that goal as you do.

These folks are Detroiters as well with real experiences and they also want to play a vital role in the city's comeback. They have needs and desires they would like to be met as well. However, after they were left behind to deal with a crumbling city for well over 30 years, you're now telling them that all of the money they've paid to the city in taxes isn't good enough, that they're impediments who don't deserve the same representation you do [[or in other words, need to have their voices diluted) and you're either going to deal with things my way or hit or the highway.

And I'm not referring to one particular person in my post. In fact CY, most o your posts are fairly reasonable. I also don't think some of the people who radiate these condescending feelings do it on purpose, because again everyone share the ultimate goal.

Bottom line, we need to try and come up with better ways to express our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the city without belittling the experience of other Detroiters. We also need to find a better way to include ALL Detroiters and suburbanites in any type of comeback. Instead of choosing losers and winners or deciding who's going to endure the most pain for the team, we should be welcoming everyone to the table to discuss ways the quality of life can be improved for all. Hear out the cries from the senior citizen in SW Detroit who doesn't have adequate street lighting on her block and include her in the discussion as to how that situation can be fixed for her. Don't just simply her to "Put up or shut up!!!" because you may not want to hear what she says or like how she says it. Even if you don't have an immediately solution, at least make her feel as if you are taking her concern into consideration and working on a way to fix the problem ASAP.

I finally agree with you, love your "bottom line" statement.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes. It's just that in Detroit's case, we are atrociously bad -- almost in a remarkable way -- of letting rich investors know that they aren't welcome.

-- $200 million...million...that Detroit turned down for the school system
-- $6 million per year in saved operating costs letting Michigan run Belle Isle
-- $160 million to invest in the Detroit lighting system, opposed by Detroit reps
-- $221 million...upgrades at Cobo Hall, but only after it was "hijacked" by the suburbs.

In most cities, people make fun of the rich. People even dislike the rich. Here we tell them to GTFO and get mad at them for not leaving their money behind before they leave.

I believe Cobo was "halljacked". Don't forget the 11 million returned because somehow they couldn't manage to knock down blighted structures. I forgot the amount, but that too was returned because they couldn't manage to clothe needy families with it. Your post is dead on. I get the impression there's a strange sense of entitlement to other people's money by the City government. As if someone owes them something. I'm rather surprised the Council went on Holiday break until after the first of the year. Is the break allowed during this time? Yes it is, but the City needs the cash released from the State, shouldn't that take precedence?

[michimoby]

One correction [[I believe). The $200MM was for charters in the city, not for the city school system. Whether it would have been good or bad is up for debate but it was not like handing over $200MM to the school system

Right. That's what Kwame [[allegedly) wanted to do with the money. What right-standing individual would just hand over $200M to the most dysfunctional system in the country?

BTW, the fairly well-functioning University Prep system is being bankrolled by Robert Thompson [[the $200M man). So, he responded to the raised middle finger by turning the other cheek. Kudos to him; unfortunately, not all investors will have the same fortitude.

[DetroitPlanner]

One correction [[I believe). The $200MM was for charters in the city, not for the city school system. Whether it would have been good or bad is up for debate but it was not like handing over $200MM to the school system

Another correction is the lighting system. The mayor has worked hard at creating the authority needed to accomplish this but it is stalled in Lansing along with many other things. I don't know if you've been to Cobo lately but it is being upgraded.

[corktownyuppie]

Another correction is the lighting system. he authority needed to accomplish this but it is stalled in Lansing along with many other things.

Yes, it is stalled in Lansing. What's stalling it is that there is opposition from Detroit-based state reps.

I don't know if you've been to Cobo lately but it is being upgraded.

Yes, it is being upgraded, but only after anyone from outside the city was accused of using extortion to steal it from Detroit.

[Honky Tonk]

"I don't know if you've been to Cobo lately but it is being upgraded."

Drive by it down Atwater @ least once a week. Last week, part of the glass outside wall was up. To quote the kids, "it looked awesome".

[Hermod]

That will be less and less of an issue. Right now, only about 25% of households have school-age children in the U.S., and I just read that the projection for two decades from now is that only 12% will have school age children.

[[I think that may be the real underlying issue with "school quality" right now. It is really a problem of funding schools in an era when 75% of the population really doesn't give a rip whether schools are funded or not. God, I hope I am wrong.)

As an "empty nester" who has been supporting public schools with property taxes for the last thirty years since my last kid graduated from high school, I would say that empty nesters do willingly support the schools IF they think the schools are well run and are an asset to the community. Most of us have seen past the propaganda that any increase in per pupil funding will gain an equal increase in student achievement. I am not sure how the DINK crowd sees the issue of paying for "breeders".

[313WX]

Yes, it is stalled in Lansing. What's stalling it is that there is opposition from Detroit-based state reps.

Now the Detroit-based state reps do have it right.

This lighting authority could potentially leave the residents they represent, who pay the same taxes with same dollars as everyone else in the city and state, without ANY type of street lighting [[and really at this point, we don't know who's going to go with and without lightning, we just know half of Detroit's residents won't have street lighting). When the local officials aren't advocating for these people, it is the state reps' job to do so.

Bing's response? Instead of coming back with a better and tactful way to address that concern, he instead told them to "Put up or shut up."

[jt1]

BTW, the fairly well-functioning University Prep system is being bankrolled by Robert Thompson [[the $200M man). So, he responded to the raised middle finger by turning the other cheek. Kudos to him; unfortunately, not all investors will have the same fortitude.

University Prep does a great job. Unfortunately DPS can't 'select' students in the same manner, can't set the same requirements on parents and have to take in the kids that University Prep boots out.

Multiple things at play. Running one good charter is much different than running tons of them. And, if the $200MM went to all charters who would be stuck with the kids that they did not choose? It's not as easy as it sounds and the numbers [[I'll have to check them out) for the charters in the city are on par with DPS.

The issue is bigger than the schools or management of the schools.

[bailey]

University Prep does a great job. Unfortunately DPS can't 'select' students in the same manner, can't set the same requirements on parents and have to take in the kids that University Prep boots out.

Multiple things at play. Running one good charter is much different than running tons of them. And, if the $200MM went to all charters who would be stuck with the kids that they did not choose? It's not as easy as it sounds and the numbers [[I'll have to check them out) for the charters in the city are on par with DPS.

The issue is bigger than the schools or management of the schools.

While you're right that UPrep can expel students... just to clarify, it's an open enrollment school. IIRC, all charters are as they must be to get state funds. further, IIRC, Uprep will select via a random lottery if they get more apps than available seats.

[michimoby]

University Prep does a great job. Unfortunately DPS can't 'select' students in the same manner, can't set the same requirements on parents and have to take in the kids that University Prep boots out.

Multiple things at play. Running one good charter is much different than running tons of them. And, if the $200MM went to all charters who would be stuck with the kids that they did not choose? It's not as easy as it sounds and the numbers [[I'll have to check them out) for the charters in the city are on par with DPS.

The issue is bigger than the schools or management of the schools.

You're absolutely right. As one of my contemporaries from Excellent Schools Detroit tells me, there are NO high-performing charters in the city on a scores-only basis. And objectively, that's the only metric we should be paying attention to.